NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

[pittsburghgirl]

If she had a head injury and had been drinking, she was certainly at a disadvantage in the cold or trying to navigate the woods at night.

 

[Caffeine]

With the $4k we only about it based on Fred's own words. No one that I know of has access to his financial records, so we are going strictly on his public statements.

If this money was to fund a disappearance, he never would have once brought it up, IMO.

 

[staybeautiful]

Except that Renner did investigate it. As did police. There were NO tracks in the snow leading into the mountains or woods. There was also helicopter searches done and no sign of her. It's unlikely at best as much was done to check immediately following the disappearance.

i've never really understood how they could possibly ascertain that there were no tracks. nobody knows where she entered the woods (assuming she did), the area looks pretty thickly forested, and there are plenty of weather- and creature-related things that could obscure human footprints.

 

[doris5]

Any updates on this case?


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[Caffeine]

Any updates on this case?


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Just speculation mostly. Lately the focus has been on the Umass cabin and if Maura perhaps went there after the accident.

About this time last year a former NH state trooper claimed NH authorities believed she was buried under a suspects house and they supposedly lacked probable cause. I guess that was truly the last real news...as it was mentioned in the Union Leader and other NH newspapers.

 

[JnRyan]

i've never really understood how they could possibly ascertain that there were no tracks. nobody knows where she entered the woods (assuming she did), the area looks pretty thickly forested, and there are plenty of weather- and creature-related things that could obscure human footprints.

I thought there was snow on the ground in the woods and they saw no tracks in the snow.

 

[Caffeine]

I thought there was snow on the ground in the woods and they saw no tracks in the snow.

That's true. I do think it's correct that we can't totally rule out she went into the woods because I suppose it's possible she could have hitched a ride from the immediate accident site and then for whatever reason entered the woods away from the immediate area.

There was no new snowfall at the time so I think any footprints by her car would have been visible. But that could also mean she could have walked on the roads (which were clear) and that could lead to numerous possibilities as well.

However, based on the lack of footprints in the general vicinity, I don't think she entered the woods...at least not where her accident occurred.

 

[laurabranigan]

I think her remains cannot be far from where she died unless they were carried away by animals which is possible. I think she'll be found eventually.

 

[doris5]

The fact that the dogs' trail of her stopped in the middle of the street is a pretty clear indication that she got into someone's car. Sadly I think her body isn't in that area. It could be anywhere, but I doubt it's near her car.


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[Caffeine]

The fact that the dogs' trail of her stopped in the middle of the street is a pretty clear indication that she got into someone's car. Sadly I think her body isn't in that area. It could be anywhere, but I doubt it's near her car.


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I agree.

The notion of going in the woods is discussed frequently but even for someone potentially fleeing a DUI, it never really seemed like a sensible choice. This was the middle of winter in NH, even a warm day is still quite cold and once the sun goes down its going to be freezing during that time of year.

The fact that it's cold, pitch black, and she likely didn't even have a flashlight, let alone any other gear...it never seemed rational. She'd be essentially traveling blind with little to no light to guide her...and the deeper in she goes, the more dense the cover is and less visibility there is.

Considering all that, if she did go in the woods I don't think she would have made it far and she would have been found by now.

If this is a case of her wanting to evade cops, she wouldn't even necessarily have to go deep in the woods to be unseen. Police didn't search the woods until well after the crash occurred.

The dog scent, as well as the lack of footprints always made me think she got in a car.

Though, with such little evidence one can easily argue for/against different scenarios. It's a pretty open ended mystery...we really have no idea what happened. But to me, it always seemed viable she got in a car. The bus driver stopped and talked to her, I'm sure others could have too.

 

[Coffeelover]

I just don't think she was making rational and sensible choices at that time. She was drinking and driving after all.

My thoughts are still that she ran down the road (which was clear) and then down a side street and eventually died from the elements. Apparently only a small area near the car was searched and even when more searches were done, it's not like they did a grid search or anything. It was just random areas along the main roads, as far as I've read. I would think the woods off Bradley Hill Road might be a good place to look.

 

[doris5]

I agree.

The notion of going in the woods is discussed frequently but even for someone potentially fleeing a DUI, it never really seemed like a sensible choice. This was the middle of winter in NH, even a warm day is still quite cold and once the sun goes down its going to be freezing during that time of year.

The fact that it's cold, pitch black, and she likely didn't even have a flashlight, let alone any other gear...it never seemed rational. She'd be essentially traveling blind with little to no light to guide her...and the deeper in she goes, the more dense the cover is and less visibility there is.

Considering all that, if she did go in the woods I don't think she would have made it far and she would have been found by now.

If this is a case of her wanting to evade cops, she wouldn't even necessarily have to go deep in the woods to be unseen. Police didn't search the woods until well after the crash occurred.

The dog scent, as well as the lack of footprints always made me think she got in a car.

Though, with such little evidence one can easily argue for/against different scenarios. It's a pretty open ended mystery...we really have no idea what happened. But to me, it always seemed viable she got in a car. The bus driver stopped and talked to her, I'm sure others could have too.

She didn't get into Atwood's vehicle, which is telling. Presumably she got into the vehicle of someone she knew from the area.


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[JnRyan]

I've heard 2 different versions of the dogs searching around the car. Nancy Grace has the dogs tracking for 100 yds east of the car.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/25/grace.coldcase.murray/

The PI hired by the Murray family said he didn't believe she went into the woods at the accident scene because investigators didn't find any tracks in the snow and no new snow had fallen:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/25/grace.coldcase.murray/

Several blogsites and podcasts claim the actual scent was only found near the car. (I've listened to several of these - Missing Maura Murray, Truthseeker and Renner's site - interesting to listen to what some of them come up with, although I discount a good bit of it.)

What I've heard that was interesting: A witness supposed saw a lady running or walking fast about 3-5 miles east of the car. It's in Wikipedia and their source is the Boston Globe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Maura_Murray

Before leaving Amherst, Maura made an ATM withdrawal, but the state AG still has not made the ATM video public. (I wish I could find a link to that, but it is discussed on posts 1007 and 1008 on thread #5: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Maura-Murray-21-Haverhill-9-Feb-2004-5/page68)

I need to do more research to get back up to speed on this one.

 

[Caffeine]

She didn't get into Atwood's vehicle, which is telling. Presumably she got into the vehicle of someone she knew from the area.


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Had her prerogative been to simply evade police, seeking refuge with Atwood would have been a horrible idea. He knew she had been involved in accident, he immediately wanted police involved and he lived right by where her Saturn was sitting on the side of the road.

People say all the time that she declined his help therefore would not accept other help, but he really had nothing to offer in terms of help she wanted. For someone possibility trying to run from cops they want to get as far away as possible with no police involvement. Atwood clearly wasn't the help she was looking for.

However, a stranger that lived miles away may not have known there was an accident with alcohol involved so they may have more apt to suggest she hops in their car.

 

[RPsleuth]

It was put back into a bank account according to Fred. That's per his word, no other confirmation.

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I believe he gave her the cash to run away. If he had planned to visit and buy her a car he would have gone to the bank and withdrawn $4k at once not made several ATM stops/withdrawals. It's a ruse about buying a new car


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[BritishRacingGreen]

I believe he gave her the cash to run away. If he had planned to visit and buy her a car he would have gone to the bank and withdrawn $4k at once not made several ATM stops/withdrawals. It's a ruse about buying a new car


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I agree with everything that you just said.


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[SearchingMike]

So to keep up appearances, he searched for her almost every free moment he had? Every weekend he worked with John Smith and Rick Graves to search for Maura and find leads from locals even though he knew where she was?

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[JnRyan]

Had her prerogative been to simply evade police, seeking refuge with Atwood would have been a horrible idea. He knew she had been involved in accident, he immediately wanted police involved and he lived right by where her Saturn was sitting on the side of the road.

People say all the time that she declined his help therefore would not accept other help, but he really had nothing to offer in terms of help she wanted. For someone possibility trying to run from cops they want to get as far away as possible with no police involvement. Atwood clearly wasn't the help she was looking for.

However, a stranger that lived miles away may not have known there was an accident with alcohol involved so they may have more apt to suggest she hops in their car.

I didn't give it any thought as to why she refused Atwood, but would get in a car with someone else. That makes sense.

I always thought she got in a car - or someone's home - with the wrong person. Or she got hypothermia and she spiraled downward from there. Both cases could mean she could have died miles from the accident scene.

 

[U2forever]

I think her remains cannot be far from where she died unless they were carried away by animals which is possible. I think she'll be found eventually.

Woahkay... Stop the presses. I was under the impression her father hikes the mountains every weekend looking for Maura. I know I saw it on Disappeared. What am I missing? £¥€$ m£!!



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[Caffeine]

I didn't give it any thought as to why she refused Atwood, but would get in a car with someone else. That makes sense.

I always thought she got in a car - or someone's home - with the wrong person. Or she got hypothermia and she spiraled downward from there. Both cases could mean she could have died miles from the accident scene.

Had Atwood not lived so close to the scene, I'm sure she would have been more likely to consider help from him. But taking refuge with him meant basically sitting there until the police come.

She could have told a stranger a number of things "My car died" or "I hit some ice" either way, if a person was to stop they would already be likely to give her a ride - I doubt much explaining would be necessary. She could have expected a warm place to stay, a phone to use but with the wrong person things could have gone downhill quickly.

I tend to lean more towards that because simply going into the woods to hide would have been foolish, IMO. I mean, one could easily hide out on the edge of the road unseen by police, but going further and further into the dark woods always seemed like an insane decision.

Sure, one could argue she went in there because she was suicidal, but I've never been truly convinced of that. It's possible, but I would think if she was depressed enough she would have sought out any easier way in MA to end her life, instead of planning a trip and then suddenly becoming suicidal after an accident. Again, it's possible but I don't think that is the case here. And the idea this trip was solely based upon suicide, I don't know about that either. She really didn't have anything in her possession that screamed suicide.

We are 12 years into this mystery, it's pretty clear to me that she either somehow was able to conceal her own body, or, more likely to me, that someone else was able to conceal her body.

Sometimes people get away with ghastly crimes, maybe she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Look at the boy from Minnesota...the only thing that solved the case was essentially a confession from the perpetrator. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case here.