NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #13

[trigger]

Earlier in the series, Maura was described as being very close to her other sister, and there was a moment with Fred where he said something to the effect that Kathleen was off doing her own thing at the time of the disappearance. I assumed that Kathleen, being older, might have moved away from the family. But later, when we started hearing how important Kathleen was to the story, I began to wonder whether there was more to the separation.

As I think I said before, I'm so squirmy about all of this. I have a sense that there's family stuff that led to Maura's unhappiness but isn't directly related to her disappearance.

Kathleen lived in Boston so there was a separation. Feel bad for Kathleen. My DD is a alcoholic and she doesn't remember my conversations with her.

 

[Copper]

I feel a little dirty after watching tonight's episode. Just as I feared, the show just had to confront Fred about certain allegations.

But I did learn about the Loon 3. And suddenly the rag has become possibly very important.

 

[Fukiyama]

I feel a little dirty after watching tonight's episode. Just as I feared, the show just had to confront Fred about certain allegations.

But I did learn about the Loon 3. And suddenly the rag has become possibly very important.

The Kathleen interview didn't end up having any fireworks either. They really didn't need to bring in the expert just to confirm the obvious, that Kathleen was cagey at first, but eventually opened up a bit. And there was no real smoking gun, at least as far as Maura's disappearance. Hopefully Kathleen has overcome her demons.

 

[leep]

Wow that Maggie girl has some balls, i don't think i could've asked Fred that question in his own home as easily as she did.

 

[Copper]

I always assumed that if Maura was driving in tandem with someone, it was someone she knew from Amherst or whereever. But now I am wondering... what if she met someone along the way (while she was gassing up or getting something to eat) who suggested a good place to hole up. One was in the car with Maura (smoking man) to show her the way. And the others were in another car that would be along in minutes. It makes a lot more sense that Maura had already come into contact with her killer before she crashed, rather than randomly meeting one on that lonesome stretch of road.

 

[Skigirl]

I always assumed that if Maura was driving in tandem with someone, it was someone she knew from Amherst or whereever. But now I am wondering... what if she met someone along the way (while she was gassing up or getting something to eat) who suggested a good place to hole up. One was in the car with Maura (smoking man) to show her the way. And the others were in another car that would be along in minutes. It makes a lot more sense that Maura had already come into contact with her killer before she crashed, rather than randomly meeting one on that lonesome stretch of road.

I don't agree that it makes more sense. It seems like a warm car with a friendly-looking guy might be appealing if one was trying to escape the police and was faced with the choice of that or a night in the woods, whereas I cannot imagine any woman just meeting a random guy, no matter how friendly or good-looking in a gas station, and agreeing in that moment to go hole up someplace remote with him.

 

[The Farm]

I don't agree that it makes more sense. It seems like a warm car with a friendly-looking guy might be appealing if one was trying to escape the police and was faced with the choice of that or a night in the woods, whereas I cannot imagine any woman just meeting a random guy, no matter how friendly or good-looking in a gas station, and agreeing in that moment to go hole up someplace remote with him.

I really never thought she just got into a random car with a random stranger. It just doesn't ring true for me.
The bus driver was in his school bus when he stopped to offer help and I have always felt that if she was going to get in with anyone it would have been the guy in the big yellow bus on his way home for the night from his bus route.
Not saying that it would have been her safest bet but a little more so seeing as he was in a school bus and obviously local.

 

[Skigirl]

I really never thought she just got into a random car with a random stranger. It just doesn't ring true for me.
The bus driver was in his school bus when he stopped to offer help and I have always felt that if she was going to get in with anyone it would have been the guy in the big yellow bus on his way home for the night from his bus route.
Not saying that it would have been her safest bet but a little more so seeing as he was in a school bus and obviously local.

I think that she may have felt the same way as you after the crash, but after a half a mile of running, and realizing how quickly she'd be seen by law enforcement if running down the road, and realizing how wet and cold she'd be hiding, she may have changed her mind. I could see it happening that way if it were me. First, I'd be thinking, "no way am I getting in a bus with that guy who says he's calling the police, I'm going to try to get rid of this guy and get out of here" and then I would have realized how very hard it would be to actually evade the police under those conditions.

 

[The Farm]

Right and we really have no idea what her state of mind was at that time either.
A little drunk maybe, scared I would say seeing as she had just crashed her car.
So many scenarios and much of it just idea's that we all throw out here.
Hunting season and every fall I say maybe this will be the year they find her if in fact she is dead and did run into woods and hid herself somewhere.

 

[Deleted member 278]

I feel a little dirty after watching tonight's episode. Just as I feared, the show just had to confront Fred about certain allegations.

But I did learn about the Loon 3. And suddenly the rag has become possibly very important.

Fred said he told her to put the rag in to keep the car from stalling, according to Renner. I guess we will have to wait and see what more is said about it in the next episode.

 

[teeandcee]

Fred said he told her to put the rag in to keep the car from stalling, according to Renner. I guess we will have to wait and see what more is said about it in the next episode.

Has anyone heard Fred himself say that?

So far my theory is a predator happened to see her getting gas or stopping at a store for something and put the rag in to cause her car to stall then followed her. Or saw her somewhere along the trip and followed her in hopes of bumping her car to cause an accident. I don't think a predator just lucked up on her crashed car. I wish the cops had estimated how far back she got gas and checked video/clerks in the area. Maybe they did though.

 

[singularity]

It's just too bad, especially for Maura's family, that people with an agenda want to turn Maura's story into something much more convoluted than it probably ever was in real life. 'She's dead and a sociopath ..no no.. she's a survivor and pregnant.' smh The fact that it took a list of Maura's belongings in her car to "personalize" this case for the Podcasters seems to indicate that this is more about selling an entertainment product than a true heartfelt quest to find answers for the Murray family. I hope I'm wrong but threatening emails in NH and a mysterious tweet with a penny? IDK It just seems so orchestrated and the Podcasters spend way too much time explaining themselves and talking about "trolls".

Yep....its all about entertainment and greenback dollars. One of the main reasons I avoid such podcasts and blogs. It's not really about the victim(s).It never was and it never will be. Its about them, their bank account, and the survival of their program. They want people focusing on outlandish scenarios. Talking about realistic scenarios does not help them in any way.

Throw me in with the group who believe she walked away from that scene and wound up succumbing due to the elements.

I still think she walked away, either purposefully or not, and died alone in the woods.

Exactly. Cant make money or get any attention off of that though.

A lot of these shows people watch/listen to and various blogs people read need to be boycotted.

Who wanders around with 4k in cash? Especially when buying something that big?

People do crazy things.

In the summer of 98 when I was 23, I walked around with between 6-8k in my wallet all the time. I could barely fold my wallet. Was it stupid? Yes. Didn't stop me from doing it though. I had a 97 Nissan pickup but bought a 87 Camaro for $1200. He wanted $2500 but I threw 12 on the hood and said take it or leave it. He took it. I'd also go into pool halls and bars and buy the girls drinks. Needless to say, this money did not last. :shame:

I guess if someone in my circle had died or went missing, the fact I carried a chunk of money in my wallet would've became a clue or red herring in the case.

While I think Renner made a good argument for her getting into a friend's car, I just don't think she's run off. Unless a predator saw her somewhere else and was following her I just don't see her abduction as plausible either. SMH. I don't get it at all. The only other reasonable option is she wandered into the woods and her body just hasn't been found.

Wait......now they've got a friend's car tagging along in one of the 'theories'?

Wow. Anything to keep those dollars/clicks rolling in.....

I am very conflicted about the show veering towards the Murrays.

Why? It has to start going in that direction to keep people tuning in. Its enterainment and they act accordingly.

If Kathleen doesn't reveal any juicy details about the phone call next week, it will be a let down..

See?


Next time they'll promote some shocking twist....

 

[Rallibella]

I had to pop in to say how disappointed I am with this series. 2 episodes focused entirely on Renner's theories and barely touching the actual known facts. Not a fan of how Renner's theories are leading to the family being treated by Art/Maggie either. Might make good t.v. but isn't getting us anywhere in terms of solving the case.

 

[Cajunsoccerdad]

Just my opinion, but I don't believe the $4000 cash for a used car story. I think $4000 plus Maura's $280(whatever the amount she withdrew), diamond necklace could've been to pay off something/someone in a hurry. Either her or Kathleen ("my sister") was in some big trouble with wrong people. Whether it was with drug money owed by kath or something else. And you would leave secretly to go deliver that money before someone gets dealt with. And it went bad from there. Fred would have to cover up money with used car story. Again, just my opinion.

 

[armywife210]

I really never thought she just got into a random car with a random stranger. It just doesn't ring true for me.
The bus driver was in his school bus when he stopped to offer help and I have always felt that if she was going to get in with anyone it would have been the guy in the big yellow bus on his way home for the night from his bus route.
Not saying that it would have been her safest bet but a little more so seeing as he was in a school bus and obviously local.

That would make sense except for one thing. Butch Atwood, the bus driver, was not offering her a ride away from the scene. He was offering her a warm place until the police arrived. I hear this argument SO often. Why would she not accept help from Butch but would from some passerby? They are offering two different things. If she wanted to flee the scene temporarily Butch would not be the ticket out of there. I really don't know for sure why she didn't stick around. I would have welcomed the help of the police. But if she didn't why WOULD she go with Butch rather than a passerby?


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[armywife210]

Just my opinion, but I don't believe the $4000 cash for a used car story. I think $4000 plus Maura's $280(whatever the amount she withdrew), diamond necklace could've been to pay off something/someone in a hurry. Either her or Kathleen ("my sister") was in some big trouble with wrong people. Whether it was with drug money owed by kath or something else. And you would leave secretly to go deliver that money before someone gets dealt with. And it went bad from there. Fred would have to cover up money with used car story. Again, just my opinion.

FWIW, my dad was a brilliant man. He was the 2nd of 13 children, born in the 40's, to a barber and a housewife. They grew up poor. He vowed that his kids would never have to live that way. He worked VERY hard, married my mom, had three children, and bought 600 beautiful acres of land right on the Mississippi River. ... With cash. Yes, CASH. He was old school. Did I mention he worked hard? He then built our house with his own hands, Using no credit. He started his own business with cash. He bought my first car....with cash! Why? When he had credit out the wazoo, he had a checking account...multiple in fact. Because any time you make a large purchase and let them know that you have cash in hand you can get a much better deal. It's less headache for the business, they don't have to worry about checks bouncing. To this day most of my uncles buy cars that way, after witnessing the good deals that my dad would get. A lot of "old school" type people do this, even still. It kind of gets me in a tangle when people say that it's weird that he brought cash for the car, because it's my reality.


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[Cajunsoccerdad]

FWIW, my dad was a brilliant man. He was the 2nd of 13 children, born in the 40's, to a barber and a housewife. They grew up poor. He vowed that his kids would never have to live that way. He worked VERY hard, married my mom, had three children, and bought 600 beautiful acres of land right on the Mississippi River. ... With cash. Yes, CASH. He was old school. Did I mention he worked hard? He then built our house with his own hands, Using no credit. He started his own business with cash. He bought my first car....with cash! Why? When he had credit out the wazoo, he had a checking account...multiple in fact. Because any time you make a large purchase and let them know that you have cash in hand you can get a much better deal. It's less headache for the business, they don't have to worry about checks bouncing. To this day most of my uncles buy cars that way, after witnessing the good deals that my dad would get. A lot of "old school" type people do this, even still. It kind of gets me in a tangle when people say that it's weird that he brought cash for the car, because it's my reality.


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Understood, but would he take out cash from multiple atm's in somewhat of a hurry to purchase a used car to replace a car supposedly on its last leg. Why take out $4000 not knowing what you needed to purchase the next vehicle and turns out it's not enough.

 

[Caffeine]

I can understand why Bill doesn't speak publicly about this but it seems like the people speaking on his behalf aren't doing him any favors either.

When you are talking about a woman who's been missing for over a decade and is likely dead, the last thing you want to convey is you "just want to move on with your life".

Stuff like that just comes around as self centered and callous. If I recall correctly, his family has said this before as well.

I understand it's probably taxing to have people wanting to talk to you about the case for the past 10+ years, but that is really a terrible point to make, even if someone is saying it for you.

 

[teeandcee]

I perfectly understand Bill moving on. He was very young at the time. He's now a man with a family and career. It's like a lifetime between his age/maturity then compared to his life now (I presume). As sad as it is, life does go on.

I suspect Bill isn't interested in having himself, his words, or his family dissected by social media.

Anyway, different topic; I was impressed with the information from the woman who'd written a book on people who vanish. She made a lot of sense to me.

 

[Kittycat01]

I agree, Bill has moved on, and he has every right to do that. He may have been a cad so to speak, if he cheated on Maura, but he obviously didn't physically harm her, and how much of his life should be devoted to this? I'm sure he has regrets and sadness regarding Maura, but his life had to move forward.

The last episode makes me think more and more that she met with foul play. I think she got in the car with the wrong person. Or she ran down the road aways (experienced runner) but the darkness and cold got to her, and she maybe approached a cabin or house looking for help. Does anyone know how much LE checked on the locals near the crash site? I'm not referring to the bus driver or the folks that lived right across the road as they called LE, and I don't think you would call the police if you had abducted someone.