NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #14

[PaulR]

Didn't they search within a five mile radius or was that misreported? I'm personally not convinced she could've got outside that size of a search zone without her body being found. Athlete or not, i of course know search parties miss things.

FWIW that's 78.5 square miles, or 50,240 acres. There's no way that area has been thoroughly searched.

 

[Nadal]

FWIW that's 78.5 square miles, or 50,240 acres. There's no way that area has been thoroughly searched.

Someone will correct me if i'm wrong but that was the claim by LE at least. Ground and air 5 mile radius. It's the likely reason they aren't willing to search again without a specific area to search and a compelling reason to do so.

 

[sony12]

That still doesn't answer - where is she? There's zero evidence that she is alive, and nobody has said anything. It's not like the old days when you could go to a graveyard and make a fake ID using a dead kid's identity.

And Renner has had every reason to find and name anyone who would be a perspective candidate as a tandem driver and has produced nothing.

Again since there is so little we know about this case that anything could have happened. It's possible that she could have left the area with people she knew and something happened to her in an entirely different location. I find her leaving the area with people she knew far more likely than the random serial killer theories there are out there.

Renner probably only knows about a very small portion of Maura's acquaintances so the tandem driver theory could still very well be plausible even if Renner can't connect a particular person or persons to that theory. I think he only knows about a few of Maura's friends.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

Didn't they search within a five mile radius or was that misreported? I'm personally not convinced she could've got outside that size of a search zone without her body being found. Athlete or not, i of course know search parties miss things.

It's incredibly difficult to search in the freezing cold and in a lot of snow. I suspect they simply missed her; sometimes people sit up against tree and they're hard to see. She could be beneath a snow drift... It's so hard to track in the snow - I even had a hard time tracking an injured deer that had to be dispatched - once the blood trail ended trying to find hoof tracks was nearly impossible.

 

[tigerteeth]

FWIW that's 78.5 square miles, or 50,240 acres. There's no way that area has been thoroughly searched.

Plus, they didn’t hit all private property if people didn’t let them search, and I’m guessing they didn’t look on all private property within 5 miles. I wish the search coordinates/locations would be made public.
Its amazing to think some people are found so many years later. I can think of numerous New England examples (which types of wildlife a factor?) When people think the remains 100% would be all gone and scattered, I disagree. Sure, it could happen, but I think the chances are at least skull would be likely to be found.

 

[tigerteeth]

Not that this would happen, but because it is one of the dominant theories, theoretically, what would it take to find her if she is in the woods (even though certain things like going on properties without warrant/permission would not fly)? Since people are so often missed.

1. Search private properties and public properties extremely thoroughly (Im sure a thorough job was done, but in the beginning trying to find someone in a short amount of time and trying to cover a lot of ground and her likely being looked for on the surface back then differs from now)
2. Search big enough radius (and right near the site even though there were stated to be no footprints - they could have been missed, she could have entered somewhere else, it could have been crusty and she walked on top, etc.)
3. Be on the lookout for scattered and partial remains
4. Be extremely thorough in tracking what is searched and where
5. Potentially looking under years of sludge, mud, pine needles, leaves, etc.
6. Search in places someone could have terminally burrowed
7. Be on the lookout for any items in any condition that could have been Maura’s
8. Watch out for and or check any mines, wells, bore holes, animal traps, etc.

Just wondering for the hell of it, because it’s easy to think she could still be out there.

 

[Laughing]

Folks, I'm not a moderator -- but have followed threads that were shut down, even deleted, for bickering.

Remember that one person's 'discussion' may be someone else's 'argument.'

In honor of Maura & Fred, just be aware.

JMHO YMMV

TY, Laughing

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

Folks, I'm not a moderator -- but have followed threads that were shut down, even deleted, for bickering.

Remember that one person's 'discussion' may be someone else's 'argument.'

In honor of Maura & Fred, just be aware.

JMHO YMMV

TY, Laughing

No one is arguing her - it's merely a good discussion. No one is being disrespectful or insulting. It's important to talk about all the possibilities regarding Maura...

 

[sony12]

No one is arguing her - it's merely a good discussion. No one is being disrespectful or insulting. It's important to talk about all the possibilities regarding Maura...

Think she was talking about the couple exchanges there were between me and that one dude. We just need to remember that there are so few facts with this case that virtually anything is on the table from her going into the woods and dying, to her being picked up by some people she knew, to her being picked up by someone she didn't know and they dropped her off somewhere else, to her running into someone that killed her, to her still being alive out there somewhere and because of that just like @Laughing said we need to discuss all theories. And if it gets to the point to where you think someone is just purposely trying to troll you just stop talking to them. I know there are some people on here who don't like what I say and don't like the fact that I am participating in this thread and that is ok. I'm not on here to make friends. I just like discussing different aspects of this case and that will include at times being critical of some theories that I think are a little too 'out there'.

 

[sony12]

Not that this would happen, but because it is one of the dominant theories, theoretically, what would it take to find her if she is in the woods (even though certain things like going on properties without warrant/permission would not fly)? Since people are so often missed.

1. Search private properties and public properties extremely thoroughly (Im sure a thorough job was done, but in the beginning trying to find someone in a short amount of time and trying to cover a lot of ground and her likely being looked for on the surface back then differs from now)
2. Search big enough radius (and right near the site even though there were stated to be no footprints - they could have been missed, she could have entered somewhere else, it could have been crusty and she walked on top, etc.)
3. Be on the lookout for scattered and partial remains
4. Be extremely thorough in tracking what is searched and where
5. Potentially looking under years of sludge, mud, pine needles, leaves, etc.
6. Search in places someone could have terminally burrowed
7. Be on the lookout for any items in any condition that could have been Maura’s
8. Watch out for and or check any mines, wells, bore holes, animal traps, etc.

Just wondering for the hell of it, because it’s easy to think she could still be out there.

If she died somewhere within the reach of animals fifteen years later I think it would be difficult to spot any remains. Animals probably would have carried most of the remaining bones off to completely different areas that people wouldn't have a clue to look. After the first couple/few years finding remains in the area probably decreased dramatically.

 

[PaulR]

Not that this would happen, but because it is one of the dominant theories, theoretically, what would it take to find her if she is in the woods (even though certain things like going on properties without warrant/permission would not fly)? Since people are so often missed.

1. Search private properties and public properties extremely thoroughly (Im sure a thorough job was done, but in the beginning trying to find someone in a short amount of time and trying to cover a lot of ground and her likely being looked for on the surface back then differs from now)
2. Search big enough radius (and right near the site even though there were stated to be no footprints - they could have been missed, she could have entered somewhere else, it could have been crusty and she walked on top, etc.)
3. Be on the lookout for scattered and partial remains
4. Be extremely thorough in tracking what is searched and where
5. Potentially looking under years of sludge, mud, pine needles, leaves, etc.
6. Search in places someone could have terminally burrowed
7. Be on the lookout for any items in any condition that could have been Maura’s
8. Watch out for and or check any mines, wells, bore holes, animal traps, etc.

Just wondering for the hell of it, because it’s easy to think she could still be out there.

Right. But not everyone is going to let the police search their property (and "Maura is missing" is insufficient to get a warrant) - and it's very possible that there's someone who owns a lot of land and Maura's remains are on the very edge of their wood lot. You're also talking about an extremely time consuming and labor intensive search. I'm not sure how feasible it is to get trained people doing the search, for someone who has been missing for over 15 years, when there are always missing hikers to look for, crimes that need to be investigated by police, etc.

 

[jaejae]

Here are details of a True Crime Event about the Maura Murray case:

True Crime Obsessed with Missing Maura Murray LIVE

 

[jaejae]

I was wrong about them being cleared, i jumped the gun sorry i honestly thought i already posted that. My point was there's very little reason to suspect them and i went further and said they were "cleared", at the very least we can freely assume their alibis were confirmed or something would be said about them especially since Fred has took LE to court and attacked them several times.

So are you Renner? You seem to get very aggravated whenever he's brought up and you never disagree with him.

Of course you have we have to behave yourself but you might be onto something there

 

[tigerteeth]

Right. But not everyone is going to let the police search their property (and "Maura is missing" is insufficient to get a warrant) - and it's very possible that there's someone who owns a lot of land and Maura's remains are on the very edge of their wood lot. You're also talking about an extremely time consuming and labor intensive search. I'm not sure how feasible it is to get trained people doing the search, for someone who has been missing for over 15 years, when there are always missing hikers to look for, crimes that need to be investigated by police, etc.

You’re missing the point. I’m saying theoretically. Just saying, to keep people form questioning that she could be out there, or how is it possible that she could be out there, what would it take? In years and years when property owners move, die, their houses turn into stores (which has happened), etc.

 

[wary]

I’m 100% convinced Maura died from exposure in those woods and just hasn’t ever been found, probably due to animal predation. She was a troubled young woman running away from problems, and found herself in an even bigger problem and knew she’d be in jail for driving drunk after the accident. I think she tried to hide with the idea she’d walk into town but it was too cold and she was too impaired.

I think she had some shady people around her but I don’t think anyone did anything to her at all.

I think what you said is by far the most likely explanation.

 

[wary]

Didn't they search within a five mile radius or was that misreported? I'm personally not convinced she could've got outside that size of a search zone without her body being found. Athlete or not, i of course know search parties miss things.

I suspect that it’s impossible to do a good search of an area with a five mile radius. That’s 78 square miles—in a forested area, I believe.

 

[HeartOfGranite]

A lot of that 78 square miles is dense forest criss-crossed by rivers, creeks and ravines. It would be very hard to search comprehensively. Visibility in winter would be better than in summer, but accessibility would not. I don't remember how much snow we had in northern NH that winter, but they would likely have needed skis or snowshoes. And in late winter with snow on the ground and meals hard to come by, animals would scatter any remains pretty quickly. If she is somewhere in the forest in the area between where she disappeared and North Woodstock, it's entirely possible nothing will ever be found.

 

[Kittycat01]

Hey ya’ll, new to the forum but not the case. I appreciate everyone’s perspective, very informative.

Just a couple of things, and I know I’m chiming in late, but I don’t buy a tandem driver theory. By all accounts, Maura’s car was a piece of s*#% and on its last legs, so why have someone follow you if they could just take you where you were going? That never made sense to me. Also, I may be in the minority but I feel foul play was involved. Yes, succumbing to the elements is very possible considering the area and the temperature that night. But with as much attention as this case has gotten, all the searches, personally it’s hard for me to believe not one trace of evidence, her clothing, bones has ever been found. Yes, animals can scatter remains, but no shoes, scraps of clothing, nothing has been found. MOO.

 

[Kittycat01]

Even though she, by all accounts, was in great shape, a runner, in that temperature and in the dark I don’t think she could have made it very far off the road. Of course, if highly intoxicated who knows for sure.

There’s a famous case here in Colorado about a little boy who went missing while hiking with a group of people. His name was Jaryd Atadero. There were all kinds of theories, he was abducted by a stranger, fell in the Poudre River, fell off a cliff, etc. It took 4 years but finally his shoes, brown jacket and sweatpants were discovered. They believe he wandered off and was attacked and killed by a mountain lion. Later they found one of his molars and skull cap. Where I’m going with this is while it took 4 years, they found evidence. Nothing connected to Maura has ever been located.

 

[TREKKER 92]

Hey ya’ll, new to the forum but not the case. I appreciate everyone’s perspective, very informative.

Just a couple of things, and I know I’m chiming in late, but I don’t buy a tandem driver theory. By all accounts, Maura’s car was a piece of s*#% and on its last legs, so why have someone follow you if they could just take you where you were going? That never made sense to me. Also, I may be in the minority but I feel foul play was involved. Yes, succumbing to the elements is very possible considering the area and the temperature that night. But with as much attention as this case has gotten, all the searches, personally it’s hard for me to believe not one trace of evidence, her clothing, bones has ever been found. Yes, animals can scatter remains, but no shoes, scraps of clothing, nothing has been found. MOO.

Excellent viewpoint--