NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #14

[skeptik]

One more thing I forgot, in addition to quite alot of alcohol that she took with her from the car, she also took several packets of sleeping pills with her.

So she fled an accident scene, on foot, she intentionally avoided help from Butch, and the police, and she took a bunch of alcohol and sleeping pills with her in her backpack.

What were her intentions at that last moment we are 100% certain of? Take the booze and sleeping pills, and get away as fast as possible.

 

[Caffeine]

I do agree with this. I just find it hard to believe she would run in woods and die in the cold.

I'm sorry if this has been discussed but could she have been carrying a weapon in that backpack?

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Other than pepper spray, I doubt it.

Massachusetts isn't exactly a weapon friendly state so I can't imagine Umass allows for anything like that on campus.

I don't think there's ever been mention of her family owning firearms or being hunting enthusiasts so I don't think she had access in that regard.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

It’s pretty much impossible to kill yourself via Tylenol PM, not to mention that she left it, along with the alcohol she purchased, in the Saturn after she abandoned it. Suicide becomes increasingly unlikely when you consider that she didn’t have the proper means and no body was ever found.


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[skeptik]

It’s pretty much impossible to kill yourself via Tylenol PM, not to mention that she left it, along with the alcohol she purchased, in the Saturn after she abandoned it. Suicide becomes increasingly unlikely when you consider that she didn’t have the proper means and no body was ever found.


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Alcohol plus sleeping pills plus hypothermia, that's a pretty effective way to kill oneself. The alcohol was not in the car, with the exception of the box of wine and what wine she was drinking in the coke bottle. The rest she (presumably) took with her.

Again, when people suggest that the body would likely have been found, all I can do is refer to the examples where bodies have not been found for months or even years and they were much closer to the spot last seen than where Maura could have gone.

Again, it took almost 4 years to find a Lear Jet that crashed into the same area. A Lear jet vs a 120 pound human body.

So I respectfully disagree with both notions.

 

[The Farm]

We put a lot of faith in hunters to find bodies (even as some I know have very strong feelings against them), but is hunting even allowed in that area, or hunting even feasible there? There's a lot of forested land, even public land, where hunting is forbidden, or there aren't many deer there, or whatever.

Yes N.H. is a big hunting state, lots of deer, bear and birds etc.
It just seems that when people are missing and dead in woods it is usually hunters that come across them. They might not be actually hunting right there but scouting out areas, checking wildlife signs. I am not sure but N.H. is either 300 ft. or 500ft. from a dwelling to shoot.
I do not think Maura went right across the street and dropped in the snow, I think she ran for a little while.
I can not help but think that she might be in a rock crevice or such.
Did some hiking up there in my younger day and those are everywhere. Lots of ledge here and there.
For the longest time I was hoping she took off to Canada to start a new life but as time has gone on I am leaning towards her being not alive and in those woods somewhere.
Once you have been in them, hiked them you can see the possibilities.

 

[Murkywaters]

https://www.interpol.int/notice/search/missing/2017-129976

As a result of the Oxygen series, officials have issued a Yellow Alert for Maura which goes out to the whole wide world. I remember in the doco series Art Roderick said they are going over their records to see if she did go across the border into Canada.

http://www.afr.com/technology/interpols-global-criminal-database-and-my-face-20170709-gx7qrb

This is a good article about how the system works. If Maura is alive and is traveling, she should be found.

 

[avamonroe]

No matter what the fish and game guy says, or the dog trainers say, the simple FACT is that dog tracks are really hit or miss.

Although anything could have happened, and I agree she could be in those woods, I don't think we could ignore what the guy from Fish and Game said. I do not have search and rescue experience, so I tend to believe what he - who has found all but 2 people throughout his career, and who was co-ordinating and present at the searches - has to say. But that's just me.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Alcohol plus sleeping pills plus hypothermia, that's a pretty effective way to kill oneself. The alcohol was not in the car, with the exception of the box of wine and what wine she was drinking in the coke bottle. The rest she (presumably) took with her.

Again, when people suggest that the body would likely have been found, all I can do is refer to the examples where bodies have not been found for months or even years and they were much closer to the spot last seen than where Maura could have gone.

Again, it took almost 4 years to find a Lear Jet that crashed into the same area. A Lear jet vs a 120 pound human body.

So I respectfully disagree with both notions.

And I respectfully disagree with the idea that she's in the woods. If she succumbed to the elements anywhere, it would have been the river (that's the only way there wouldn't have been tracks, since it abuts the road very closely at certain points), but nothing has been found to indicate that. And again, to downplay the possibility (probability) of foul play is to ignore the reality that women everywhere have to deal with literally every day of their lives: namely, that men exist in this world who hurt women, who rape women, who even kill women, and get away with it an offensive amount of the time due to the willingness of other men to believe that these things happen.

The fact remains: someone in a pickup truck was seen prowling in the area right before Maura went missing and this was important enough that at least one witness called it in and an alert was sent to patrolman to be on the lookout. I honestly don't think there's a whole lot of mystery here and much of what surrounds this case is white noise distracting from what most likely occurred: an opportunistic predator took advantage of a vulnerable young woman and did an exceptionally good job of hiding her body.

 

[sony12]

And I respectfully disagree with the idea that she's in the woods. If she succumbed to the elements anywhere, it would have been the river (that's the only way there wouldn't have been tracks, since it abuts the road very closely at certain points), but nothing has been found to indicate that. And again, to downplay the possibility (probability) of foul play is to ignore the reality that women everywhere have to deal with literally every day of their lives: namely, that men exist in this world who hurt women, who rape women, who even kill women, and get away with it an offensive amount of the time due to the willingness of other men to believe that these things happen.

The fact remains: someone in a pickup truck was seen prowling in the area right before Maura went missing and this was important enough that at least one witness called it in and an alert was sent to patrolman to be on the lookout. I honestly don't think there's a whole lot of mystery here and much of what surrounds this case is white noise distracting from what most likely occurred: an opportunistic predator took advantage of a vulnerable young woman and did an exceptionally good job of hiding her body.

There is no evidence that that red pick up had anything to do with this case. That red pick up story was brought up by someone who was walking along the road and noticed a red pick up slow down and seemingly check her over. Guess what. When I see people walking along the road I slow down to check them over as well. She also said she noticed the same red truck at a gas station where she was and it seemed to stay for along time. Guess what. It is not uncommon for people to stop at a gas station and take a break for awhile.

Given the circumstances of this case I think Maura dying on her own (either intentionally or unintentionally) is just as likely as her getting taken by someone. She was going through a lot of troubles in her life and it also seems as though she had a bit of a drinking problem as well.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Guess what. When I see people walking along the road I slow down to check them over as well.

That's exactly my point. And when you consider that she went missing not far from a known predator's home in a state with a ton of unsolved murders and disappearances of women and at least two or three unidentified serial murderers of women over the past 30 years, it is absolutely prudent to remain, if not open to, then agnostic regarding the possibility of foul play.

And as I've said before, everything that happened BEFORE New Hampshire, leading right up to the getaway, can be explained by bulimia and I say this with confidence because I used to pull the same exact stuff before I got serious about recovery. Maura may have entertained suicidal thoughts in her life but I sincerely doubt her trip was intended to be permanent or to end in her death.

 

[sony12]

That's exactly my point. And when you consider that she went missing not far from a known predator's home in a state with a ton of unsolved murders and disappearances of women and at least two or three unidentified serial murderers of women over the past 30 years, it is absolutely prudent to remain, if not open to, then agnostic regarding the possibility of foul play.

And as I've said before, everything that happened BEFORE New Hampshire, leading right up to the getaway, can be explained by bulimia and I say this with confidence because I used to pull the same exact stuff before I got serious about recovery. Maura may have entertained suicidal thoughts in her life but I sincerely doubt her trip was intended to be permanent or to end in her death.

What known predator lived close by? All I have seen of something like that is with those guys from the Missing Maura Murray podcast trying to pull stuff out of left field. Making a big deal out of that house because on a search several years later some cadavor dogs went crazy at that particular house.

 

[sony12]

Claude Moulton is this supposed predator. Again not sure if there is anything to it other than armchair investigators trying to reach for straws. The police never seemed all that interested into looking into Claude's brothers claims that he was the one that killed Maura.

 

[ghost story]

Add to this that there are a few other paved roads that she could have gone down besides the main highway. Once she gets off the main highway she could have walked a few miles with ease, then off into the woods with pills, alcohol and cold. She doesn't even need the pills, cold and alcohol have taken many people, it's all just one mellow, slow, lay down and go to sleep kind of death. Far enough away from the search areas and she's lost to time.

(edit: should have quoted Skeptik's previous post.)

 

[sony12]

Wonder if those supposed blood contents on the wood that they supposedly found amounted to anything? Been a couple months since that episode aired so I would assume if there was anykind of positive lead on that there would be something out now about it by now. The whole oxygen thing seemed pretty amateurish though. Not doing much differently than people do on this board. Not that there is anything wrong with that but you would hope if they are going to go to the trouble of putting a program on tv about it that it would be a little more informative than what you normally find just searching the web or youtube on your own about the subject.

 

[avamonroe]

And I respectfully disagree with the idea that she's in the woods. If she succumbed to the elements anywhere, it would have been the river (that's the only way there wouldn't have been tracks, since it abuts the road very closely at certain points), but nothing has been found to indicate that. And again, to downplay the possibility (probability) of foul play is to ignore the reality that women everywhere have to deal with literally every day of their lives: namely, that men exist in this world who hurt women, who rape women, who even kill women, and get away with it an offensive amount of the time due to the willingness of other men to believe that these things happen.

The fact remains: someone in a pickup truck was seen prowling in the area right before Maura went missing and this was important enough that at least one witness called it in and an alert was sent to patrolman to be on the lookout. I honestly don't think there's a whole lot of mystery here and much of what surrounds this case is white noise distracting from what most likely occurred: an opportunistic predator took advantage of a vulnerable young woman and did an exceptionally good job of hiding her body.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[Pettibon Junction]

What known predator lived close by? All I have seen of something like that is with those guys from the Missing Maura Murray podcast trying to pull stuff out of left field. Making a big deal out of that house because on a search several years later some cadavor dogs went crazy at that particular house.

Claude was the known predator, yes, but there were several other suspicious men with dark histories known to have been out that night or documented as living nearby.

My point is this: my signature says “there are such devils” for a reason. You cannot discount foul play out of hand in this or any other case when a young woman goes missing and frankly, as I’ve said before, it gravely denies the reality of what it means to exist as a woman in this world.

To say with certainty that an opportunistic crime motivated by sex could not have happened is a form of misogyny and I will keep posting in this vein until men or overprivileged women who’ve internalized this fallacy stop arguing with me.


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[Pettibon Junction]

Wonder if those supposed blood contents on the wood that they supposedly found amounted to anything? Been a couple months since that episode aired so I would assume if there was anykind of positive lead on that there would be something out now about it by now. The whole oxygen thing seemed pretty amateurish though. Not doing much differently than people do on this board. Not that there is anything wrong with that but you would hope if they are going to go to the trouble of putting a program on tv about it that it would be a little more informative than what you normally find just searching the web or youtube on your own about the subject.

Without criticizing the show, I’ll say this: shortly after the blood evidence was released, the woman who had lived in that house with Claude Moulton came forward and said it was hers. She told some implausible story about menstrual blood but I think the conclusion we can reach is this: Claude beat the tar out of her and somehow, that closet was the epicenter of a violent domestic scene.


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[sony12]

Without criticizing the show, I’ll say this: shortly after the blood evidence was released, the woman who had lived in that house with Claude Moulton came forward and said it was hers. She told some implausible story about menstrual blood but I think the conclusion we can reach is this: Claude beat the tar out of her and somehow, that closet was the epicenter of a violent domestic scene.


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No offense but that is jumping to conclusions a little bit. Maybe people should stop trying to run the guys name through the mud until some actual evidence comes forward that actually indicts him of being the villain that people are accusing him of being (without any real evidence). All people are basing things off of now is nothing more than 'heard from a person who heard from another person that this person might be involved in something bad'

In regards to your previous post I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't a chance that she was assaulted. However sometimes people are a little too quick to come to that conclusion. If you look at Maura's history she really did have a lot of reasons to want to get away from her life at that time. She got herself into trouble at one school and left there shortly after. She was going through a lot of personal life problems when the disappearance did happen. She had drinking issues that was causing her to wreck vehicles. We can't say for certain what her relationship with her dad was like but chances are from what she had done lately that he wasn't being real nice to her at that time. Her mom was dying of cancer. She seemed to be having trouble with her bf also.

There really is probably just as good of chance (if not better chance) that she was trying to get away from her life than it is that she was abducted by someone on that snowy road

 

[sony12]

You can see why the police gets frustrated with the public in regards to investigations like these when there are podcasts like the missing maura murray one and shows like the oxygen program that are coming to conclusions and making accusations based on nothing more than hearsay.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

No offense but that is jumping to conclusions a little bit. Maybe people should stop trying to run the guys name through the mud until some actual evidence comes forward that actually indicts him of being the villain that people are accusing him of being (without any real evidence). All people are basing things off of now is nothing more than 'heard from a person who heard from another person that this person might be involved in something bad'

In regards to your previous post I don't think anyone is saying that there isn't a chance that she was assaulted. However sometimes people are a little too quick to come to that conclusion. If you look at Maura's history she really did have a lot of reasons to want to get away from her life at that time. She got herself into trouble at one school and left there shortly after. She was going through a lot of personal life problems when the disappearance did happen. She had drinking issues that was causing her to wreck vehicles. We can't say for certain what her relationship with her dad was like but chances are from what she had done lately that he wasn't being real nice to her at that time. Her mom was dying of cancer. She seemed to be having trouble with her bf also.

There really is probably just as good of chance (if not better chance) that she was trying to get away from her life than it is that she was abducted by someone on that snowy road

All of these same things were said about Paula Welden when she went missing from the Long Trail near Bennington College in 1946: she was running away from something, left to start a new life in Canada, had a secret boyfriend she was meeting, was depressed and went off to do the old squaw walk in the cold woods, etc. And guess what? There was nothing to any of it. Police zeroed in on a suspect immediately and kept an eye on him for decades but were never able to build a strong enough case to charge him. This happens ALL THE TIME.

Whatever Maura was TRYING to do is irrelevant, as she had an accident and didn't reach her destination. (And what this destination might have been, nearly 14 years later we still don't know, which indicates strongly that she was traveling alone.) She fled the scene on foot and despite an exhaustive search, no evidence was ever found that she went off the road at any point. Ergo, the most likely scenario is that someone picked her up, that this someone was a stranger (again, no evidence she was traveling with anybody), and that this stranger probably killed her and disposed of her body.

That's not leaping to conclusions. That's simply what the optics of this disappearance point toward as being the most likely scenario.

p.s.
For the record, I'm not endorsing Claude Moulton as the responsible. But he can't be ruled out and he has a documented history of violence and impropriety with young women /teenage girls going back to the 1970's.