NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #14

[Moonbeam456]

I’ve rarely seen this mentioned but the road she crashed on ran along a river, how do we know she didn’t start running, got confused and ended up falling into the river? I’ve looked at detailed pics of the river bank in that area and it’s surrounded by dense brush and shrubs that come right down the river’s edge, her body could’ve easily gotten caught up in the brush/scrubs as she was swept downstream making it almost impossible to find. Does anyone know if they searched along the river?


Also, if you use Google maps and pan out a bit from the crash site you will see how extensive the forest is around there, I still think she could’ve perished out there and no one found her. I live in Washington and we have plenty of people that go missing up in the dense forests we have and aren’t found or are found long after they’ve disappeared due to the density of the forest.

 

[HeartOfGranite]

I think if she ended up in the river, her body would have been found at some point. The Wild Ammonoosuc is fast-moving but not particularly deep or wide with many rocks and sand bars. In spring, when the snow melts and the ice breaks up, it's a raging river, but most summers it's swift but there are so many places a body could get hung up and a lot of people wade, tube, and hike in many areas along the river. It's possible, of course, but IMHO much less likely than the other side of the road, into the woods. Some parts of the north woods are so dense that hikers can get lost wandering just a few yards off a marked trail.

Once you get a few miles up the road in the direction she was heading, it's National Forest, and once off the road, it would be very easy to get lost. My thought has always been that Maura left the scene and headed in the direction she was already heading. It's about 17 miles from the crash site to North Woodstock--maybe she thought she could run that far, especially if she had been drinking and her judgement was impaired. If she was running, she might have gotten more than five miles up the road that night. If she's afraid of being seen for any reason (imagination runs wild, or she just doesn't want to get caught), she hides, using dark driveways where she can to avoid footprints.

A few miles up the road, footprints found later might not be associated with Maura, especially if she was jogging and got farther than people thought she could. It's cold, it's dark, and it's snowing lightly, IIRC. Falling snow can be disorienting. She sees headlights approaching, and darts off the road, maybe up an unused driveway or logging road, maybe just into the trees. You don't have to go deep into the woods at night to get disoriented and lost. Not thinking clearly, she doesn't look for her track out until she's wandered in circles a few times so it's confusing, or maybe not at all. So now, instead of heading back to the road and relative safety, she heads deeper into the woods. It's cold, so she tries to keep moving, until the cold takes over and she sits down somewhere to rest and falls asleep and never wakes. Finding any article of clothing or bone would be the proverbial needle in a haystack out there.

 

[kemo]

I came to the conclusion years ago that she ran off to avoid a DUI charge and died of exposure because running generates sweat which renders someone extremely vulnerable to hypothermia in cold weather. People dying of exposure will often seek shelter under branches or fallen logs. The shelter they sought results in their bodies not being found.

I believe she ran quite a ways down the highway before exhaustion and cold overtook her and then she sought shelter in the woods near the highway. If her remains are ever found, I think people will be surprised how far she travel

 

[Quill]

Even though she, by all accounts, was in great shape, a runner, in that temperature and in the dark I don’t think she could have made it very far off the road. Of course, if highly intoxicated who knows for sure.

There’s a famous case here in Colorado about a little boy who went missing while hiking with a group of people. His name was Jaryd Atadero. There were all kinds of theories, he was abducted by a stranger, fell in the Poudre River, fell off a cliff, etc. It took 4 years but finally his shoes, brown jacket and sweatpants were discovered. They believe he wandered off and was attacked and killed by a mountain lion. Later they found one of his molars and skull cap. Where I’m going with this is while it took 4 years, they found evidence. Nothing connected to Maura has ever been located.

There is a thread for that case here. I keep up with it and there have been some interesting things added lately. You should check it out.

 

[minazoe]

Maura clicks all the boxes in a way

a girl in trouble
out in the night
in an isolated area
alone
alcohol involved
winter woods
unprepared

when you think of a daughter this is your worst nightmare...the only thing worse would be Tijuana.

mOO

 

[Kittycat01]

Such a terrible situation. I think at this point in her life she was desperate. But drinking and being desperate lead her into danger, whether it was an abduction or dying in the woods of exposure, it’s terribly sad. She was running from reality, and she ran into death. I don’t believe she’s alive.

 

[PezCandy]

I personally think she hitched a ride with the wrong person. I’ve had a vehicle break down in the winter when I was 18, it was 7 miles from my house, it was freezing, snowy, and was getting dark super fast, There was a very persistent man who kept asking me if I needed a ride, after he turned around to keep asking me I eventually lied and told him my house was the next drive way up just so he’d leave me alone. This was before these fancy new smartphones when Nokia’s were a thing, outside of town the service was terrible. This could be like what happened to Maura, maybe she caved and took a ride from someone persistent? Could be why her tracks stop in front of a drive way.

 

[Caffeine]

With anyone who has been missing for 15 years, I think the most likely scenario will always be the person being deceased. It's so extremely rare to find people alive after such a time frame that I hardly consider the notion in this case, unfortunately. With that said, I think we are left with two viable conclusions as to what happened to Maura...

1) She perished in the woods

2) She was killed by a stranger or acquaintance

The area in which she vanished from is just too vast to ignore. Yes, it was searched extensively but searches aren't always perfect and we don't have the slightest clue in what direction she traveled or how far she got. It is certainly possible she made it way further than anyone anticipated and well outside of search radius, making this truly a needle in a haystack type search. She very likely did not enter the woods in the immediate area of the crash, but that leaves the possibility that she may have walked an unspecified distance and then perhaps entered to hide out, seek shelter, look for a shortcut etc.

On the other hand murder is an all too common scenario in missing persons cases and something I can't ignore. People often say the odds are against such a thing but as I've said a million times....she's been missing for 15 years now. It might be time to consider the idea that something out of the ordinary has occurred here.

 

[embufum]

As complex as Maura's life seemed to be her Dad always said that nothing about it mattered and that she was probably killed by some dirtbag as he put it. Renner who at first thought she was alive and living in Canada is of the opinion that she is deceased and he thinks that she knew her killer and might have lived for a few days. What is kind of coincidental in my opinion is the people who used to own the house that they searched, have a last name that is a very common french Canadian name. They also seem to have some relatives that live in Canada. I could actually see Maura walking to this house for help. It's a nice place that would seem inviting. Maybe someone there gave her a ride and when they heard she disappeared they freaked out and just kept it to themselves. Maybe they owned a red truck and that was the truck people seen?

 

[Kittycat01]

In this day and age, with social media, cameras and cell phones everywhere, I can’t believe she is still alive. Someone would have outed her.

I still believe she met with foul play. She wrecked the car, she was scared and ran down the road. It was cold and she got exhausted. Finally she stopped running and a car pulled up...

“Can I give you a lift?” Tired, scared, exhausted, drunk, I think she made a terrible choice. She was murdered and buried. IMHO.

 

[minazoe]

I wonder if Maura ever showed any symptoms of mental illness or a mental break.

some of the things going on with her make me wonder if she was suffering mania..if she was in fact spiraling and on a mission of self destruction as her family spoke of her doing an
Indian walk off to die. I mean seriously...this is CRAZY behavior and the very idea that this occurs to them makes me wonder if somehow they knew something about her and this
is some kind of familial denial.

could Maura have been hearing voices? imagining things? could she have been on an unexplainable journey of unimaginable importance in her mind?

I feel like if the family resigned suicide right away, then they know she was ill..no one should just walks off to die..could Maura have needed treatment?

if she was manic..she could have been hallucinating. mOO

 

[minazoe]

let me elaborate a little.

When I was young I had a brilliant boyfriend from Europe. he was studying here. Occasionally we would go off on adventures to find the "essence of something unattainable"
but these adventures were always fraught with unreasonable demands, dangerous road trips in a broken down MG ..wearing disguises ..looking for something magic...whatever it was it was always a wild goose chase, he spoke 7 languages and was a formidable presence...and at times impossible to understand.

it wasn't until some years later when we lived far away from each other that he spiraled so far as to be locked in his office and threatening himself with a knife that he was whisked away into treatment for Manic Depressive Disorder in Europe.

We never thought his "personality" was due to mental illness.. it was..he could have died many times on one of his crazy missions.

Some families can not accept any deficiencies in a sibling or child. mOO

 

[Nadal]

She may have been mentally ill, there's just not enough confirmed information to determine anything like that. The description of her randomly saying she had to go to her dads hotel room during a party lends credence to the mentally ill theory, but for all we know she was just really drunk and missed her dad, or a more common theory she was going somewhere else and that was a cover. Either way there's no way to advance that beyond the theory stage if we don't personally know her and don't have access to her medical records.

Bill apparently (the story comes from an apparent fellow searcher who said Bill said she'll be found on top of that mountain naked, dead and drunk, that dude may be telling the truth but i'm definitely not just going to accept it as fact) said he thought she had committed suicide on a mountain because he had said something similar himself jokingly to the family, he's not the whole family we don't know what the rest were thinking. She phoned her sister Julie every day maybe she'd be a better judge of her mental state but we've never really heard her opinion, which is fine.

 

[minazoe]

I thought she had a book in her possession or something regarding the practice of going off to die in the NAI culture..or something like this..I may be el wrongo for sure.

but I recall that it was her sister and father who immediately thought she was emulating this practice.

maybe it was not accurate, or I misunderstood. mOO

 

[SAMS]

Following

 

[Nadal]

I thought she had a book in her possession or something regarding the practice of going off to die in the NAI culture..or something like this..I may be el wrongo for sure.

but I recall that it was her sister and father who immediately thought she was emulating this practice.

maybe it was not accurate, or I misunderstood. mOO

She had a book in her possession about mountain climbing in the mountain range she lived near and climbed herself that included hazardous tales, there was also triumphant tales. Either way she loved mountain climbing so there was nothing off about that just like there'd be nothing off about a cave diver having a book about cave diving or whatever. You are "el wrongo" about the rest of it.

Never heard anything about her sister, according to someone who was helping to search her dad said she'd be found naked and drunk after killing herself on a nearby mountain. Not sure why that guy is completely believed but whatever.

 

[Nadal]

Apologies, every instance i said "Bill" i meant "Fred", i mixed up her dad and boyfriends names lol.

 

[minazoe]

such a brutal thing for her own father to say.

he had no trouble declaring his missing daughter's potential death from craziness and drunkeness.

but there is a missing backstory here, I think it's relevant one way or the other, alive or dead.

everyone can accept her death now I guess. Maura is an enigma mOO

 

[cherrymeg]

such a brutal thing for her own father to say.

he had no trouble declaring his missing daughter's potential death from craziness and drunkeness.

but there is a missing backstory here, I think it's relevant one way or the other, alive or dead.

everyone can accept her death now I guess. Maura is an enigma mOO

If the dad said that in the early days of the search it might have been taken out of context. I could see a parent saying "Oh she'll be home or we'll find her passed out naked on a mountain" almost as joke. I don't see a parent saying suicide during a search. It sounds like someone embellished, if he said that. Sometimes humor helps deal with a crisis. Picturing someone passed out naked only to find that a huge search party is looking for them is kind of funny and good outcome.

After 15 years and the way she disappeared it doesn't sound like she was fleeing the country or paying for a new identity. If she is alive it would probably be against her will. That is the rare abductor.

 

[cherrymeg]

As complex as Maura's life seemed to be her Dad always said that nothing about it mattered and that she was probably killed by some dirtbag as he put it. Renner who at first thought she was alive and living in Canada is of the opinion that she is deceased and he thinks that she knew her killer and might have lived for a few days. What is kind of coincidental in my opinion is the people who used to own the house that they searched, have a last name that is a very common french Canadian name. They also seem to have some relatives that live in Canada. I could actually see Maura walking to this house for help. It's a nice place that would seem inviting. Maybe someone there gave her a ride and when they heard she disappeared they freaked out and just kept it to themselves. Maybe they owned a red truck and that was the truck people seen?

This could be part of the Canadian rumors, maybe? With with the bus driver coming forward and neighbors near the accident calling the police, you would hope hope anyone that gave her a ride would come forward.