NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 6

[McSpy]

No idea if it's relevant, but when you google "Red Cross Calling Cards" most links pertain to the "Help Our Troops Call Home" Program, which is a charity program that Red Cross donates calling cards to overseas U.S military personal.
Does the Red Cross donate cards to civilians? Perhaps even MM? I have no idea. But IF the call to MM's boyfriend was from overseas military, that makes an interesting consideration.

MOO.

ETA: Wasn't MM's boyfriend in the military?

I believe MM's boyfriend was a West Point graduate and was a Army Lt. in 2004. I think it was possible he gave her the card at one time and that she had it in her wallet on the day of her 2nd accident. One question I have: Is there any kind of expiration date on the red cross phone card? I've never used them.

 

[McSpy]

That is the question isn't it? I don't really know. I am certain that she ran away from the car on her own. She was likely drunk, at least legally. She wanted nothing to do with the police coming to the scene so she, like many others who drink and drive, ran from the scene of the accident. That is something I have seen repeatedly. After she ran, I don't know. Three theories. She ran, wondered off into the woods and died of exposure. Or, she got a ride with the wrong person and unfortunately didn't survive the encounter. Or, she got a ride, and her multi-day escape, to think about what she was going to do about her life, turned into a permanent change in her life by cutting all ties. I haven't been able to narrow it down in my mind even after all these years of looking at the case. And the reason is, until some new evidence surfaces, it will remain a mystery.

Math is my vocation and also is part of my job. We have equations in math that are unsolvable. You need as many equations as you have unknowns. Without that, the equation is unsolvable. A handy piece of information to have if you want to try to solve a math problem. Maura's case is one of those. Too many unknowns to solve the equation.

Just my thoughts.

Bill

I've been going in circles about this case. Part of me thinks she is off the road in the woods somewhere. Yet, after a recent trip to rural northwestern Pennsylvania, I'm starting to doubt this scenario. The thing that bugs me is the fact that the roads, Maura may have run down, were in pitch black darkness. If I knew she had a flashlight, I would bet on her being in the woods. Now, I'm thinking she had accepted a ride. This also makes me question the contractor's story. How could she have run 5 miles in complete darkness from the accident scene? Someone on this forum said that there are lights near Bradley Hill Rd., but I doubt that there is street lighting beyond that road on Rt.112. If there are lights, I'm guessing they are very far apart, perhaps only at intersections.

 

[NHwoodsman]

there was somebody on the Dissapeared about MM(sp)? show that died.

Does anybody know who it was? people on one of the topix boards I go to said it was the School Bus Driver, Butch Atwood.

Does anybody know if he's still alive?

I read on topix that Butch Atwood aka School Bus Driver ( SBD) died in Florida awhile back.

 

[scaredtopost]

I thought I had quoted the post I was responding to, but I did not. This is in response to post #300:

I used to read the other forum you are talking about on a regular basis. Some things that were said on there were taken too far. They often berated and even threatened other posters. However, in response to your question, several posters blame other posters for BA's (SBD) death. They say he was never left alone and was always suspected as having a role in MM's disappearance. They turned him into the victim. While I agree he was only trying to help MM and did not harm her, the focus should stay on MM and locating her. JMO. I believe BA died of normal causes. He had retired to Florida, owned a boat and was living his life the way he wanted. I do not believe any participant's in MM's case attributed to his death.

 

[NHwoodsman]

There have been people that have said that. Some have said it as though they read it from Smith's report, when in fact they have not. There is a lot of "information" floating around on the net by people with personal agendas who have said things for so long that others believe that it is fact. I am not saying you are one of those people. I am saying it is likely that you were duped by one of those people. They tell the lies so often that they eventually start being accepted as true.

I have also heard people speculate that the crack was from Maura's hand. That is possible but more likely it was caused by the airbag but I have only my experience to make the judgment. I am also certain having seen many head impacts that it was almost certainly not her head that did that damage to the windshield.

Bill

I know Fred Murray has made the statement, but when I read it, I was taken by surprise as from memory it seemed from an official source either Smith or Scarinza. There are so many articles with links to other links its hard to try to find them all again.

 

[mywarmbluefleece]

You need to define injury. You might get your bell rung, meaning that you might get shook up, but if you didn't lose consciousness it would likely pass very quickly and not have any lasting affects at all. There are several collisions in any collision. There is the collision of the car with the object. There is the unrestrained occupant's head slamming into the vehicle and then there is the brain slamming into the front of the skull causing the brain injury. This can be mild with no symptoms even though there could be a very large "knot" on the head. It could still have a tremendous amount of bleeding from a superficial injury to the skin on the head to death from massive contusion to the brain or death from torsion on the brain stem from the brain being spun in the skull with virtually no external damage to the head.

It is my opinion that there is no evidence to indicate that Maura's head made hard enough contact (likely no contact at all) to cause her to lose consciousness or have an altered state of consciousness. Her actions could have been affected by alcohol or psychological distress, but not likely any physical effect of the accident. This is my opinion based upon more than a hundred involvements and treatments of victims at accident scenes. You of course, may have another opinion. I have no problem with that.

Bill

Bill, you are very intelligent and you make some good points. I didn't hit my head or lose conciousness but I was sufficiently confused to not be able to get my insurance card out of my wallet. Maura could have been sufficiently confused to wander away or do something unsafe, or she would become an easy victim to a predator. Add the alcohol and other stress and I think the likelihood of her being able to make rational decisions was close to zero, but it still brings us back to square one. She was either a victim or wandered, even if it is only because of psychological/ alcohol effects.

 

[Varvaros]

One thing I have been thinking about is the purported "sobbing" call from Maura to Billy three days after her disappearance (it was three days, right?). Now if we take this call to be genuine (I tend to believe it was her, as Billy contends), then what on Earth could Maura have been doing in those 72 hours? Has anyone speculated on this? She could not have survived in the wilderness for 3 days. The contractor saw her running east down Rt. 112, I am going to "walk down" that route myself, via Google Earth, and see what I can see.

 

[scaredtopost]

One thing I have been thinking about is the purported "sobbing" call from Maura to Billy three days after her disappearance (it was three days, right?). Now if we take this call to be genuine (I tend to believe it was her, as Billy contends), then what on Earth could Maura have been doing in those 72 hours? Has anyone speculated on this? She could not have survived in the wilderness for 3 days. The contractor saw her running east down Rt. 112, I am going to "walk down" that route myself, via Google Earth, and see what I can see.

I have often wondered about this, as well. It is not one of the more discusses aspects of the case. If one assumes MM met with foul play, you must believe that she was held captive for 2-3 days AND was able to gain access to a telephone. IF she was able to gain access to a phone, why would she not have called 911 for help? The other scenario would be that she was wondering in the woods and again, if she was eventually able to gain access to a phone, why would she not call for help? IMO, the only scenario that fits into the belief that MM made that call would be that she was escaping her prior life and was fleeing to assume a new identity. Because of her close ties to her family, I don't believe this to be true. I tend to think that the call was not actually from MM. JMO. Without more details, I'm really not sure of anything.

 

[kemo]

The "Red Cross Calling Card" is a mystery within a mystery. I'm satisfied that M.M. left the scene of the accident on her own accord. After that, any number of things could have happened.

No doubt Red Cross calling cards are "mis-appropriated" and get in the hands of people who use them to make "free" calls. Some of these people probably dial wrong numbers occasionally. I don't like coincidences at all because they happen just often enough to throw a wrench in many a criminal investigation. If, (a big "If") MM made the mystery call, then she was almost certainly "safe" at the time since it was obviously not the call of an abductees trying to get free. It would mean that she safely made it out of the woods and got somewhere investigators were unable to track her to. In that case there is still the question of "what happened then? a subsequent suicide/disappearance, met with foul play or staged a successful "walk-away"?

My WAG (wild assed guess) is that her remains are somewhere in the forests of New Hampshire were she crawled in response to rapidly decreasing body temperature; i.e. exposure. We may never know.

 

[raeann]

I have often wondered about this, as well. It is not one of the more discusses aspects of the case. If one assumes MM met with foul play, you must believe that she was held captive for 2-3 days AND was able to gain access to a telephone. IF she was able to gain access to a phone, why would she not have called 911 for help? The other scenario would be that she was wondering in the woods and again, if she was eventually able to gain access to a phone, why would she not call for help? IMO, the only scenario that fits into the belief that MM made that call would be that she was escaping her prior life and was fleeing to assume a new identity. Because of her close ties to her family, I don't believe this to be true. I tend to think that the call was not actually from MM. JMO. Without more details, I'm really not sure of anything.

She would not have called 911 if the person holding her was associated with LE, or if they had at least convinced her that they were a member of LE.

 

[btf100]

Bill, you are very intelligent and you make some good points. I didn't hit my head or lose conciousness but I was sufficiently confused to not be able to get my insurance card out of my wallet. Maura could have been sufficiently confused to wander away or do something unsafe, or she would become an easy victim to a predator. Add the alcohol and other stress and I think the likelihood of her being able to make rational decisions was close to zero, but it still brings us back to square one. She was either a victim or wandered, even if it is only because of psychological/ alcohol effects.

I'm not sure what to say to you. Being confused after an accident with no mechanism of injury to explain that makes me want to know what caused the accident and if you remember what happened just before. If you have diabetes or are taking any other meds or any illnesses that could explain that including heart or other illnesses including strokes or TIA's.

Bottom line is, that isn't normal. When I have come upon these circumstances I always worry that the symptoms being displayed were not the result of the accident but could be the result of something unseen in the patient that occurred prior to the accident. Nothing is 100% but in my experience I would have a high index of suspicion that something else might have been going on.

Bill

 

[Varvaros]

Using google earth, I started at the crash site and continued east down route 112. I even saw a memorial dedicated to Maura on the side of the road near the crash site. Route 112 is a long, lonely road, even in the light of day. If she was heading east down that road the night of the accident, I don't think that bodes well for her. There is nothing for miles and miles. Only a few scattered shacks and houses ever now and then. Like others, I think she succumbed to the elements somewhere out there down 112. I think the contractor sighting was legit. The mysterious call must not have been from her.

 

[btf100]

Using google earth, I started at the crash site and continued east down route 112. I even saw a memorial dedicated to Maura on the side of the road near the crash site. Route 112 is a long, lonely road, even in the light of day. If she was heading east down that road the night of the accident, I don't think that bodes well for her. There is nothing for miles and miles. Only a few scattered shacks and houses ever now and then. Like others, I think she succumbed to the elements somewhere out there down 112. I think the contractor sighting was legit. The mysterious call must not have been from her.

The contractors sighting was around 5 miles to east of the crash site. Around Tunnel Brook Rd I believe. I am not sure how many people know that. I still think that might have been Maura but originally, at least, the time-line didn't seem to fit. Now I am not so sure.

Maura was supposed to be a strong runner. Running in those temperatures is definitely doable and as long as she was running, hypothermia would not have been an issue. Even very lightly clothed she would have been fine.

I have spent untold hours in the night, in the military and camping, and I can say there would have likely been plenty of light on the road to see from refracted moonlight through the clouds and reflected light from the snow. After 15 to 20 minutes your eyes are remarkably adaptable to the night. Most aren't aware of this because they don't spend any time out in the night without artificial lights. I have camped a considerable amount of time in below zero weather as well as spending a considerable amount of time running patrols in the army, both day and nighttime, so I am familiar with cold weather and low light conditions also. The only nights, that are truly black, what we use to call "infantry nights", were the ones that the moon wasn't out and it was raining. Those are truly pitch black nights. Can't see hand in front of your face type of nights. :twocents:

Bill

 

[NHwoodsman]

I have read weather reports for that night and there was moonlight I think 3/4 of the moon was visible. The call 72 hours later if it was Maura is baffling, because she could not have survived that long outside. There are abandoned cabins on the road and in the woods and summer homes all along that route so who knows. I believe Maura could have covered the distance running where she was reportedly seen by CW, and once again if his story is valid. I always wondered about the sleep aid pain pills and the alcohol, obviously her mental state wasn't the best before the last accident and for some people it doesn't take much to go the extra step.

I read on a previous post in one of the earlier sections I think section 5 dated Feb 2010 that the state police were going to test some evidence regarding Maura's case but nothing more was noted. Perhaps someone found some remains or they developed a new lead or some old evidence that was never tested. Frustrating when we get new information and no followup. I understand why the police would keep anything close to their vest. I am also not 100% believing what I hear from the state as they too have been caught in contradiction's. I also wonder when the new cold case unit will get going, it would be nice to see this case solved, but I am not real optimistic.

If Maura perished in the vast wilderness after this amount of time and considering the terrain, it would be nothing short of a miracle if anything was found. Worse still if she was harmed and buried somewhere, the odds would be even less unless someone talks. I just don't see her starting a new life and no contact especially when her mother passed away in 2009. I would think being as emotional as she seemed guilt would have persuaded her to make contact by now.

 

[McSpy]

I have read weather reports for that night and there was moonlight I think 3/4 of the moon was visible. The call 72 hours later if it was Maura is baffling, because she could not have survived that long outside. There are abandoned cabins on the road and in the woods and summer homes all along that route so who knows. I believe Maura could have covered the distance running where she was reportedly seen by CW, and once again if his story is valid. I always wondered about the sleep aid pain pills and the alcohol, obviously her mental state wasn't the best before the last accident and for some people it doesn't take much to go the extra step.

I read on a previous post in one of the earlier sections I think section 5 dated Feb 2010 that the state police were going to test some evidence regarding Maura's case but nothing more was noted. Perhaps someone found some remains or they developed a new lead or some old evidence that was never tested. Frustrating when we get new information and no followup. I understand why the police would keep anything close to their vest. I am also not 100% believing what I hear from the state as they too have been caught in contradiction's. I also wonder when the new cold case unit will get going, it would be nice to see this case solved, but I am not real optimistic.

If Maura perished in the vast wilderness after this amount of time and considering the terrain, it would be nothing short of a miracle if anything was found. Worse still if she was harmed and buried somewhere, the odds would be even less unless someone talks. I just don't see her starting a new life and no contact especially when her mother passed away in 2009. I would think being as emotional as she seemed guilt would have persuaded her to make contact by now.

The temp was around 33f that night with light snow. I'm thinking it may have been overcast too, because of the snow, but also the temp was very mild for that area in February. I'm guessing that the day's mild air was kept mild during the night, because the area was blanketed by clouds. If it was clear, the temps would have turned colder, during the course of the night.

One thought had occurred to me, why didn't anyone, other than the contractor, see Maura running down that road? Granted, northern NH on a Monday night is most likely quiet, but one would think someone else would have seen a person running down RT. 112 too. A lone person running in the dark should be an odd occurrence. I'm assuming drivers tend to use their high beams a lot in that area and she would have been lit up on approach. Also, Maura hiding in the shadows, while a vehicle passes, may have been difficult, because of the snowbanks along the roads. There was 2 and a half feet of snow on the ground that night, so the snowbanks would have been even higher.

I'm just throwing these thoughts together. All and all, I'd like to see some resolution for her family. I agree with NHwoodsman, finding Maura would be nothing short of a miracle.

 

[NHwoodsman]

The temp was around 33f that night with light snow. I'm thinking it may have been overcast too, because of the snow, but also the temp was very mild for that area in February. I'm guessing that the day's mild air was kept mild during the night, because the area was blanketed by clouds. If it was clear, the temps would have turned colder, during the course of the night.

One thought had occurred to me, why didn't anyone, other than the contractor, see Maura running down that road? Granted, northern NH on a Monday night is most likely quiet, but one would think someone else would have seen a person running down RT. 112 too. A lone person running in the dark should be an odd occurrence. I'm assuming drivers tend to use their high beams a lot in that area and she would have been lit up on approach. Also, Maura hiding in the shadows, while a vehicle passes, may have been difficult, because of the snowbanks along the roads. There was 2 and a half feet of snow on the ground that night, so the snowbanks would have been even higher.

I'm just throwing these thoughts together. All and all, I'd like to see some resolution for her family. I agree with NHwoodsman, finding Maura would be nothing short of a miracle.

No one else seeing Maura is a good point, but considering the direction the contractor was coming from ( I assume rt 116) the White mountain national forest is there and with no homes around for miles on rt 112 many would either come from rt 302 or rt 3 as most homes are either on the west end of rt 112 or on the east end where rt 112 intersects rt 3. I think the only real traffic there in the winter to speak of is residents. But it is an interesting point that only someone who lives there year round may have an answer to. My wife and I were up there again this weekend as my a few in-laws living up there.

There are just so many trails, summer camp/home driveways there its impossible to say everything was checked completely. As far as footprints on the side of the road, there are so many immediate drop-offs on the roadside and thick underbrush on a vast stretch of desolate road it wouldn't be hard for someone to jump into the underbrush. Walking the road looking for tracks, it would be very difficult to see tracks in many places and the sun fades them rather quickly. I also wonder how many searchers had any training in this area of search, if Maura went in the snow toe first, the tracks may be misidentified as moose after melting some to the untrained searcher.

We went up Bradley hill rd and its a long road with many places one could easily ditch into the woods. Another thing that has bugged me is the cracked windshield, why didn't LE try to find DNA or hair strands, ANYTHING to try to verify if Maura did indeed hit her head. A slow brain bleed could change the scope of of the whole investigation. Many people act OK for a short period of time and then their mind starts to go delusional and eventually death. I think way to many assumptions were initially made when further investigation was warranted.

 

[NHwoodsman]

Just another thought, if I lived on that stretch of road knowing of the lack of and how bad the cell reception is I wouldn't travel on rt 112 between rt 3 and rt 302 if I only absolutely had to. From where Maura crashed much of the road is downhill to rt 116 north and further on rt 112 east to rt 3 uphill. I think if the road was icy she was an accident looking for a place to happen heading east from rt 302. Very poor judgment to say the least and I have to wonder how good her tires were?

Any locals would realize the hazard of driving from rt 116 onto rt 112 heading west, uphill desolate and no communication. Now this leads me to think if Maura did meet with foul play, you know who becomes a key point of interest? I also find it hard to believe he could have seen Maura at the intersection of rt 116 as even driving it in good weather close to 8-10 minutes. Maura was on foot on an icy road and much of it downhill which makes its even more difficult if there is a wet slippery road. For Maura to make there in 30 minutes even in good road conditions she would have to be moving fast, and carrying a backpack with the alcohol and who really knows what else, it seems to be difficult to impossible.

If the contractor did see her I have to question his memory of the timetable, Fred said Maura was unfamiliar with this section of rt 112, but also that Jigger Johnson campground was her favorite which is on rt 112 heading east from rt 3. I wonder if she did make it away on foot all the way to rt 116, then she may have felt she was closer to intersection of rt 3 and rt 112 then she really was and didn't realize that the terrain went uphill until she got there and exhaustion and hypothermia caught her in no mans land. Her best bet would have been rt 116 north, but she most likely had no way of knowing it. I would think she would try to head toward a familiar place and that was rt 3.

 

[milopedes]

This is a great comprehensive 4 part series about Maura's disappearence which is a must read for anyone new to learning about Maura.

Her disappearence is just baffling on many levels.

http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com...nt&view=category&id=912&layout=blog&Itemid=83

I need to keep reading, as my question might be answered in other posts, but I've always wondered what happened to the snips of carpet that were found which resulted in a "hit" from the cadaver dog searching the home. Does anyone know?

I also agree that the link provided by Gaia227 is a good one. Best I've found and very comprehensive.

 

[Dejasade]

I agree that she may have tried to hide in the shadows when cars passed, along with trying to hide from police, I think she knew she was vulnerable to creeps. Any woman would realize that they are vulnerable in that situation. The exception may be that she was desperate and very cold. In other words, she may have taken a big chance and knew it, when a motorist pulled over and offered help. I do think it is very possible she died of exposure. If she had run, she could have sweat, which could lead to hypothermia. I don't think she was properly dressed for hours spent outdoors in February.

I agree with you 100%. I think the perp encounter is far fetched. Not that it couldn't have happened...but w/ the little traffic on that road, that chance is slim. I think she hid too, and died from exposure. But where is she?? Why has her body not been found? Has that area been searched w/ a fine tooth comb???

 

[scaredtopost]

I need to keep reading, as my question might be answered in other posts, but I've always wondered what happened to the snips of carpet that were found which resulted in a "hit" from the cadaver dog searching the home. Does anyone know?

I also agree that the link provided by Gaia227 is a good one. Best I've found and very comprehensive.

The carpet evidence was dismissed. The blood did not belong to MM. It was said that it was vaginal blood and is thought to have been transferred to the carpet from a laundry hamper. There was also some speculation that the blood was planted there.

I am more interested in the supposed "new" evidence that was being tested. Why would LE come out and say they have new evidence and then never follow up? I would hope if they have discredited the new evidence, they will let the public know. But, it doesn't really seem like they want the public to know anything about MM's case.