NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 6

[Varvaros]

Hi, I am new here, but have extensively read about this haunting case.

I believe Maura, after her accident, was afraid of getting a DUI. So she rejected help from the bus driver and high-tailed it out of there on foot.

I believe the contractor did see her running down the road. She avoided him as she was still afraid of getting a DUI. I don't think he hurt her.

Now, do you think she made it, either by foot or by hitch, to one of the Red Cross locations in NH, where she was given perhaps some fresh clothes and a calling card, which she used to call Billy?

If that sad call really was from Maura, as the family contests, I believe she was in a suicidal crisis and is probably out there somewhere, hopefully to be found one day by a hunter or hiker.

 

[mywarmbluefleece]

You are correct that she could be out in the woods but she didn't have a head injury. Those marks are not consistent with a head impact. I have seem my fair share of head impacts and that doesn't appear to be one to me at all. You are also correct that she was in good shape. It was not that cold that night and even lightly clothed she could have stay plenty warm if she was running. When she stopped, that would be the issue, when hypothermia cold have settled in. Also, there was no mention that she was cold by the bus driver, only that she was shivering. You can try to make the jump that she was cold and that why she was shivering but there could be other reasons.

Bill

You can get a head injury without impact. The brain shakes in the skull. I was in a car accident and I didn't hit my head but I was so confused and if you put that with the emotional state Maura would have been in, who knows?? I don't think she was thinking logically.

 

[Varvaros]

For instance, the contractor saw her moving east on 112 at a rapid pace. If you take 112 east into the White Mountains, there is a Red Cross in North Conway. She could have easily made it there within 3 days, when she made her call with a Red Cross calling card., Might they have some record of a confused, cold girl showing up for help? She might have lied about who she really was.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I doubt that anyone dressed for driving could have survived three days outdoors with no food in the winter. As a distance runner, she could have easily reached a place where the cell phone would work, or could have gotten to a place where she could have called for a ride or some help.

She might well have worried about a DUI, especially given the previous accident. If she was even mildly impaired by alcohol, the accident and any head impact might have screwed up her judgment. All "might haves."

 

[EziliGede]

No idea if it's relevant, but when you google "Red Cross Calling Cards" most links pertain to the "Help Our Troops Call Home" Program, which is a charity program that Red Cross donates calling cards to overseas U.S military personal.
Does the Red Cross donate cards to civilians? Perhaps even MM? I have no idea. But IF the call to MM's boyfriend was from overseas military, that makes an interesting consideration.

MOO.

ETA: Wasn't MM's boyfriend in the military?

 

[Darkness]

I always thought that MM's boyfriends mom gave Maura some Red Cross calling cards to use. Something about her cell phone was always going dead or at the time (the fall 2003 she didn't have a cell phone?) so she could call BF when she needed to.

I remember the card she used after she disappeared, the number or location couldn't be traced. That's if that was her calling BF the next day.

I still think she got into a car 100 feet away from accident, right where dog lost her scent. This would have been that quick getaway she needed to avoid police that night. Unfortunately wrong car...wrong guy!!! Somebody knows, and sooner or later they will come forward. I Hope!

 

[EziliGede]

I always thought that MM's boyfriends mom gave Maura some Red Cross calling cards to use. Something about her cell phone was always going dead or at the time (the fall 2003 she didn't have a cell phone?) so she could call BF when she needed to.

Respectfully snipped.

I remember reading that MM's boyfriend mom gave her two calling cards for Christmas, but I don't believe it was ever specified that the cards were from Red Cross.

Anyone know?

 

[btf100]

No idea if it's relevant, but when you google "Red Cross Calling Cards" most links pertain to the "Help Our Troops Call Home" Program, which is a charity program that Red Cross donates calling cards to overseas U.S military personal.
Does the Red Cross donate cards to civilians? Perhaps even MM? I have no idea. But IF the call to MM's boyfriend was from overseas military, that makes an interesting consideration.

MOO.

ETA: Wasn't MM's boyfriend in the military?

Back then, there were no red cross calling cards given out that I am aware of. The primary role for the red cross in my experience in the military was as notification and verification of emergency leave for problems back home. If you were in the service and you had some type of emergency back home i.e. your mom or dad died or your wife was ill. They would verify the information to notify the military that an emergency leave was required for the service member.

Bill

 

[btf100]

You can get a head injury without impact. The brain shakes in the skull. I was in a car accident and I didn't hit my head but I was so confused and if you put that with the emotional state Maura would have been in, who knows?? I don't think she was thinking logically.

You need to define injury. You might get your bell rung, meaning that you might get shook up, but if you didn't lose consciousness it would likely pass very quickly and not have any lasting affects at all. There are several collisions in any collision. There is the collision of the car with the object. There is the unrestrained occupant's head slamming into the vehicle and then there is the brain slamming into the front of the skull causing the brain injury. This can be mild with no symptoms even though there could be a very large "knot" on the head. It could still have a tremendous amount of bleeding from a superficial injury to the skin on the head to death from massive contusion to the brain or death from torsion on the brain stem from the brain being spun in the skull with virtually no external damage to the head.

It is my opinion that there is no evidence to indicate that Maura's head made hard enough contact (likely no contact at all) to cause her to lose consciousness or have an altered state of consciousness. Her actions could have been affected by alcohol or psychological distress, but not likely any physical effect of the accident. This is my opinion based upon more than a hundred involvements and treatments of victims at accident scenes. You of course, may have another opinion. I have no problem with that.

Bill

 

[NHwoodsman]

You need to define injury. You might get your bell rung, meaning that you might get shook up, but if you didn't lose consciousness it would likely pass very quickly and not have any lasting affects at all. There are several collisions in any collision. There is the collision of the car with the object. There is the unrestrained occupant's head slamming into the vehicle and then there is the brain slamming into the front of the skull causing the brain injury. This can be mild with no symptoms even though there could be a very large "knot" on the head. It could still have a tremendous amount of bleeding from a superficial injury to the skin on the head to death from massive contusion to the brain or death from torsion on the brain stem from the brain being spun in the skull with virtually no external damage to the head.

It is my opinion that there is no evidence to indicate that Maura's head made hard enough contact (likely no contact at all) to cause her to lose consciousness or have an altered state of consciousness. Her actions could have been affected by alcohol or psychological distress, but not likely any physical effect of the accident. This is my opinion based upon more than a hundred involvements and treatments of victims at accident scenes. You of course, may have another opinion. I have no problem with that.

Bill

The only problem with head injuries is they can be unique within the incident, some accidents you'd swear there has to be brain injury and there isn't other little fender benders and you expect nothing and your worse fears come true. There has been much debate over what caused Maura's windshield to spiderweb, the police report states her head hit the windshield. Others have stated the air bag could do it some even claim the seat belt or loose items in the car.

I lean more towards emotions and hypothermia as being her enemy more than anything else, I do not believe she got picked up at the 100 yards where her scent was lost as no one heard or saw another car before officer Smith arrived. Many times dogs will lose scent trails due to various reasons and this case had many reasons.

 

[btf100]

the police report states her head hit the windshield.

This is absolutely incorrect. I have read that report from start to finish several times and have seen nothing to indicate that the police even believed that she was injured as the report stated unknown for injuries from what I remember. Unless there is another report that I am unaware of.

Bill

 

[ThePhantom]

Bill, what do you think happened? Do you think she decided to ditch her car and walk away, or, do you think she was abducted or ?

 

[btf100]

That is the question isn't it? I don't really know. I am certain that she ran away from the car on her own. She was likely drunk, at least legally. She wanted nothing to do with the police coming to the scene so she, like many others who drink and drive, ran from the scene of the accident. That is something I have seen repeatedly. After she ran, I don't know. Three theories. She ran, wondered off into the woods and died of exposure. Or, she got a ride with the wrong person and unfortunately didn't survive the encounter. Or, she got a ride, and her multi-day escape, to think about what she was going to do about her life, turned into a permanent change in her life by cutting all ties. I haven't been able to narrow it down in my mind even after all these years of looking at the case. And the reason is, until some new evidence surfaces, it will remain a mystery.

Math is my vocation and also is part of my job. We have equations in math that are unsolvable. You need as many equations as you have unknowns. Without that, the equation is unsolvable. A handy piece of information to have if you want to try to solve a math problem. Maura's case is one of those. Too many unknowns to solve the equation.

Just my thoughts.

Bill

 

[ThePhantom]

Thanks for your insights, Bill.

I've been leaning more towards the idea that she ran off into those woods. But there's still so much mystery to this case -- i.e. the phone call her boyfriend received, a sighting of Maura along another highway -- and, still, for me -- unanswered questions about the last person or persons to see Maura alive

 

[NHwoodsman]

This is absolutely incorrect. I have read that report from start to finish several times and have seen nothing to indicate that the police even believed that she was injured as the report stated unknown for injuries from what I remember. Unless there is another report that I am unaware of.

Bill

I read on one forum in a report written by officer Smith that the windshield was cracked from the inside due to contact with Maura's head. I think that was an assumption on officers smith behalf as the windshield was never tested for DNA. There is so much material out there on this case its hard to keep up with where it all is.

 

[NHwoodsman]

This is going to drive me nuts, I've been looking for over an hour to find the statement again. I remember when I read it I said, that's the first I ever saw anything from anyone involved in the investigation stating her head hit the windshield. I read the police reports that I can find and it isn't in there, but I read it on one of the forums and I believe it was a statement by Cecil Smith. It could have been by Scarinza or one of the PI's but I strongly think it was Smith because I was flabbergasted by it. Now I wish I had bookmarked it, because there was so much controversy over what caused the windshield to be cracked.

 

[iluvmua]

there was somebody on the Dissapeared about MM(sp)? show that died.

Does anybody know who it was? people on one of the topix boards I go to said it was the School Bus Driver, Butch Atwood.

Does anybody know if he's still alive?

 

[btf100]

This is going to drive me nuts, I've been looking for over an hour to find the statement again. I remember when I read it I said, that's the first I ever saw anything from anyone involved in the investigation stating her head hit the windshield. I read the police reports that I can find and it isn't in there, but I read it on one of the forums and I believe it was a statement by Cecil Smith. It could have been by Scarinza or one of the PI's but I strongly think it was Smith because I was flabbergasted by it. Now I wish I had bookmarked it, because there was so much controversy over what caused the windshield to be cracked.

There have been people that have said that. Some have said it as though they read it from Smith's report, when in fact they have not. There is a lot of "information" floating around on the net by people with personal agendas who have said things for so long that others believe that it is fact. I am not saying you are one of those people. I am saying it is likely that you were duped by one of those people. They tell the lies so often that they eventually start being accepted as true.

I have also heard people speculate that the crack was from Maura's hand. That is possible but more likely it was caused by the airbag but I have only my experience to make the judgment. I am also certain having seen many head impacts that it was almost certainly not her head that did that damage to the windshield.

Bill

 

[btf100]

there was somebody on the Dissapeared about MM(sp)? show that died.

Does anybody know who it was? people on one of the topix boards I go to said it was the School Bus Driver, Butch Atwood.

Does anybody know if he's still alive?

My understanding is that Butch Atwood died several months ago in Florida. He strikes me as a very sad figure in this story as a man that tried to help a young woman and for his effort he was vilified by one or two locals for years on the internet. He left the state with a suspicion hanging over him because of this person.

Bill

 

[iluvmua]

My understanding is that Butch Atwood died several months ago in Florida. He strikes me as a very sad figure in this story as a man that tried to help a young woman and for his effort he was vilified by one or two locals for years on the internet. He left the state with a suspicion hanging over him because of this person.

Bill

Do you know how old he was? I hope none of this contributed to his death (But it would not surprise me if it did).

Someone on Topix mentioned that he was terminal too.