NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

[telemag]

Isnt it possible she didnt live in NH, but just took the loan out there? Perhaps she moved out of state and just mailed in or paid online.

This is really odd. I wonder when the loan was taken out. Not only a loan, but for a car! We all know Maura needed a car, what's the odds of someone with the same name and birth date, same area buying something that she with out a doubt needed. If the loan was taken out shortly after her disappearance cue the Twilight Zone music.

 

[telemag]

Here's another thing about this poosible car loan. It would have been pretty easy for Maura to buy a car not long after her disappearance. Most college kids are given credit very easily. I know what some are thinking, Maura would have had to give a place of employment which she actually had as far as I know she(could be wrong) hadn't ever officially quit her job? A lot of people knew Maura was going to buy a car so if her employer got a call within a reasonable time frame from the time she disappeared they would have verified her as having worked there. No one who knew that she was missing would have thought too much about gettin a call about a car loan since most would have thought it was an inquiry from before she went missing.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Several years ago, a guy named Nick Francisco, married and a father of two with a third child on the way, failed to come home from work. His wife reported him missing and LE began an investigation. People searched, there were posters, etc. We had an active WS thread--the whole 9 yards. After awhile, it became clear that things were not as they usually are with a missing adult. LE stopped talking about the case, the man's parents didn't appear to be looking for him, and then even the wife went silent. Of course, it turned out he had just walked away from his life, changed his name, and never looked back. Now, he is a parent and of course, there is an apparatus to hunt down missing fathers who aren't supporting their kids. But this case showed me that while LE of course respects the rights of adults to walk away from a life they don't want, LE doesn't enable such a disappearance by keeping the family in the dark. Remember, if someone is reported missing, the person filing the report is entitled to some answer, if LE finds it. You can see that played out also on the "First 48" shows that deal with
missing persons. Lt. Scarinza is not going on the Disappeared show and talk about Maura as a missing person if he knows she is alive in NH. This case has been covered by some good reporters, and surely one of them would ask if there was any indication that Maura is alive. Or so I would hope. And surely the private investigators who have been involved would have gone down the road of looking for signs of life on her ss#. But jiminy crickets, lots of cases have gone unsolved because someone in LE didn't follow up on basic leads (e.g., the Adam Walsh case). So I guess we await the nexr "revelation" on the blog. I do wonder how this person is turning up stuff that no one (not LE, not reporters, not the PIs) has ever found. Where's the evidence that any of it is true? A newspaper reporter would have to provide sources. Blogs have no standards whatsoever.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Here's another thing about this poosible car loan. It would have been pretty easy for Maura to buy a car not long after her disappearance. Most college kids are given credit very easily. I know what some are thinking, Maura would have had to give a place of employment which she actually had as far as I know she (could be wrong) hadn't ever officially quit her job? A lot of people knew Maura was going to buy a car so if her employer got a call within a reasonable time frame from the time she disappeared they would have verified her as having worked there. No one who knew that she was missing would have thought too much about gettin a call about a car loan since most would have thought it was an inquiry from before she went missing.

The hit on the credit report would have been dated, for one thing. Most car loan applicatons are resolved in a day or two. It would be unlikely that an employer would have been called because she would have been asked at the dealership to provide paystubs, although I don't know how small dealers and the national chains that self-finance (e.g., J. D. Byrider, etc.) handle that stuff. But even mortgage loans and other bank loans want paystubs. How would a caller know that the person answering the phone to verify employment is not the equivalent of Kramer on the Seinfeld show verifying the George works for Vandelay Industries? It is also not likely that with small part-time jobs and no recent full-time employment, she could have qualified for a decent car loan without her father's signature; more likely, a parent would have had to buy it outright. Credit was easier to get when Maura disappeared, but I can't imagine an employer letting a phone call about Maura trying to buy a car pass in the weeks after she disappeared, in the unlikely event that the employer was called. And what about
insurance? Egad, two wrecks in a week? Red flags everywhere.

ETA: I just re-read Renner's last two blog posts. I don't buy a word of the bank story. This
person works for a bank and against all regulations just happens to search Maura's name and her personal info "looks familiar" so he compounds his unethical behavior and writes stuff down? Yeah. That's plausible. And he doesn't know a human in LE to give that tip to? I know a cop at my gym I could tell. Cops protect anonymous sources. No one would out him to the bank. Some police officer would get credit for checking the banks; that would be it. And come on, why would anyone be afraid to post here? (Topix is a hostile environment, I concede, but the other forums have had a relative of Maura as a poster and while we debate, we don't attack.) And for that matter, why would anyone POST huge info like that ANYWHERE, let alone contact a brand new blog. Instead of Fred Murray, or even a PI on the case. All that would take is a postcard to Fred. And why would a blogger post that instead of calling NH state police. I can think of only one reason. It ain't about finding Maura.

 

[scoops]

Not to get too much off topic, but as far as a credible spot to look for traces, remains of Maura I would start here if I were investigating

http://hikethewhites.com/wbond.html

Maura had just been to this location and reached the summit of this mountain (also in the very same white mountains national forest from which she went missing) just four months prior to that fateful February 2004 night, around October of 2003.

 

[scoops]

here would be a second location to search, also in the white mountains and also a place Maura had just been to a few months prior to disappearing.

http://hikethewhites.com/owlshead.html

 

[scoops]

It appears Maura and her father were gung ho on hiking 4,000 footers in the prior months before Maura went missing.

A few other mountains to mention are Camel's Hump and Mt. Mansfield.

Why are these significant? They are both mountains hiked by the Murray's in the months before she went missing as well and they are both in the Green Mountains directly eight miles away from STOWE VERMONT.

To better get a picture of what I am talking about (to include the berkshires another place of interest in the Maura case) here is a valuable link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NortheastAppalachiansMap.jpg

The known spots Maura mapquested or tried to get info about before she left her dorm are (Stowe Vermont, the Berkshires, and Burlington Vt while she ended up in the white mountains at which time she went missing.

Can anyone find the common trend in Maura's mapquest searches and the location she ended up at (white mountains)?

One other note: Where Maura wrecked was technically in the white mountain national forest (In fact there is a welcoming sign to the forest once you first turn into it off of the 302 in wells river) but Maura hadn't driven far enough to actually reach any mountains or big hiking spots. She would've had to continue in the direction she was heading (east on rt. 112) at least 15 more miles to start to get into some of the mountain areas and hiking spots) While she didn't make it that far because of the wreck, that is precisely where she was headed (towards the same area she had hiked before with her dad just recently before going missing).

 

[goodgirl65]

The hit on the credit report would have been dated, for one thing. Most car loan applicatons are resolved in a day or two. It would be unlikely that an employer would have been called because she would have been asked at the dealership to provide paystubs, although I don't know how small dealers and the national chains that self-finance (e.g., J. D. Byrider, etc.) handle that stuff. But even mortgage loans and other bank loans want paystubs. How would a caller know that the person answering the phone to verify employment is not the equivalent of Kramer on the Seinfeld show verifying the George works for Vandelay Industries? It is also not likely that with small part-time jobs and no recent full-time employment, she could have qualified for a decent car loan without her father's signature; more likely, a parent would have had to buy it outright. Credit was easier to get when Maura disappeared, but I can't imagine an employer letting a phone call about Maura trying to buy a car pass in the weeks after she disappeared, in the unlikely event that the employer was called. And what about
insurance? Egad, two wrecks in a week? Red flags everywhere.

ETA: I just re-read Renner's last two blog posts. I don't buy a word of the bank story. This
person works for a bank and against all regulations just happens to search Maura's name and her personal info "looks familiar" so he compounds his unethical behavior and writes stuff down? Yeah. That's plausible. And he doesn't know a human in LE to give that tip to? I know a cop at my gym I could tell. Cops protect anonymous sources. No one would out him to the bank. Some police officer would get credit for checking the banks; that would be it. And come on, why would anyone be afraid to post here? (Topix is a hostile environment, I concede, but the other forums have had a relative of Maura as a poster and while we debate, we don't attack.) And for that matter, why would anyone POST huge info like that ANYWHERE, let alone contact a brand new blog. Instead of Fred Murray, or even a PI on the case. All that would take is a postcard to Fred. And why would a blogger post that instead of calling NH state police. I can think of only one reason. It ain't about finding Maura.

bbm

I respectfully have to disagree here, though i do not see that problem on this particular thread.
On the more active and recent threads, there are people who attack other posters when they dont follow the popular theory going around, or when they defend(be it logically or illogically) a main POI.. I have never been on the end of these attacks as i dont post definitive or adamant ideas, but ive seen it with other members. Usually a mod will eventually scold, snip or delete, but it can become unpleasant at times, and other posters have commented the same...

 

[goodgirl65]

I can't imagine LE missing something like this. All they would have to do would be to punch her SS# in the computer and all this would have come up. I do not think that she is alive, but I there is always that chance even if it is very small. To my knowledge Maura has not been legally declared dead, correct me if I'm wrong. If not how is that done? Would it have to be a relative to petition to have this done and what if a missing person has no relatives then what?
Sometimes I wonder if the reason that LE hadn't pushed too hard in the beginning to find Maura was maybe because they did find her and she didn't want anyone to know she was found and then as time went by she decided not to ever contact anyone again. Maybe the only reason they have kept it and open investigation is because of her Dad pushing like he did and they didn't have a choice since they could not tell him. Just my thoughts running wild.

bbm

Maura hasn't been declared legally dead; I believe that info would have been discovered if she had.
I believe the family has to petition to have that happen, armed with enough info and cause to do so. In the case of no relatives i would assume the state would have to declare someone legally dead, probably to close/put in order/write off financial affairs or debt.

 

[McSpy]

Of course I don't know her, have you forgot that she refused a ride from a school bus driver who lived a 100 ft away? So she refuses this man and decides to run down the road to take more of a risk??

Sorry, I wasn't being facetious by asking you if you knew her. I don't have the impression that it was clear Maura would not accept a ride from a stranger, so I thought maybe she told you at some point. I can see why Maura didn't accept a ride from the Bus Driver. He was big, obese, bearded, gray and old. In other words, scary. He looked creepy to a young woman such as Maura. However, after shaking off the shock of the accident and realizing her predicament, I think it was possible she accepted a ride from a cleancut, friendly guy closer to her age. Ted Bundy lured girls with charm and good looks, but a scary looking man would have a problem. Most women would back away. I'm not saying Maura accepted a ride, just that I don't think it was improbable. JMO

 

[McSpy]

So you really think that they would tell him? This guy isn't exactly their favorite person after all the negative things he has publically said about them, not saying he is wrong about what he claims.

There is always the possibility they won't tell him out of spite, but if the family and the public finds out NH LE knew she was alive and well for over 7 years, I think that would be a PR nightmare. Heads would roll. I can see the story on a "Dateline" in full view of the American public. It would be a terrible embarrassment to NH. Besides, Maura would not be on the Cold Case list or on every missing persons list out there, if they knew she was alive. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[McSpy]

The hit on the credit report would have been dated, for one thing. Most car loan applicatons are resolved in a day or two. It would be unlikely that an employer would have been called because she would have been asked at the dealership to provide paystubs, although I don't know how small dealers and the national chains that self-finance (e.g., J. D. Byrider, etc.) handle that stuff. But even mortgage loans and other bank loans want paystubs. How would a caller know that the person answering the phone to verify employment is not the equivalent of Kramer on the Seinfeld show verifying the George works for Vandelay Industries? It is also not likely that with small part-time jobs and no recent full-time employment, she could have qualified for a decent car loan without her father's signature; more likely, a parent would have had to buy it outright. Credit was easier to get when Maura disappeared, but I can't imagine an employer letting a phone call about Maura trying to buy a car pass in the weeks after she disappeared, in the unlikely event that the employer was called. And what about
insurance? Egad, two wrecks in a week? Red flags everywhere.

ETA: I just re-read Renner's last two blog posts. I don't buy a word of the bank story. This
person works for a bank and against all regulations just happens to search Maura's name and her personal info "looks familiar" so he compounds his unethical behavior and writes stuff down? Yeah. That's plausible. And he
doesn't know a human in LE to give that tip to? I know a cop at my gym I could tell. Cops protect anonymous sources. No one would out him to the bank. Some police officer would get credit for checking the banks; that would be it. And come on, why would anyone be afraid to post here? (Topix is a hostile environment, I concede, but the other forums have had a relative of Maura as a poster and while we debate, we don't attack.) And for that matter, why would anyone POST huge info like that ANYWHERE, let alone contact a brand new blog. Instead of Fred Murray, or even a PI on the case.
All that would take is a postcard to Fred. And why would a blogger post that instead of calling NH state police. I can think of only one reason. It ain't about finding Maura.

I agree for the most part, but maybe this person was unsophistcated and didn't realize they could remain anonymous in a way that would not jeopardise their future employment. What they did was wrong. It makes me uneasy to know someone may be studying my financial information at their leisure. I'm sure his or her head would roll, if they got caught. However, they could have left a cryptic message such as, "The missing girl, Maura Murray, has a
bank account (or car loan) at Citizens in NH, please check out, I wish to remain anonymous" Nothing more needs to be said. LE would do the check on the tip. Their focus is on finding Maura. This bank person may have thought LE would want more and track him/her down somehow and expose the breach.

 

[telemag]

Sorry, I wasn't being facetious by asking you if you knew her. I don't have the impression that it was clear Maura would not accept a ride from a stranger, so I thought maybe she told you at some point. I can see why Maura didn't accept a ride from the Bus Driver. He was big, obese, bearded, gray and old. In other words, scary. He looked creepy to a young woman such as Maura. However, after shaking off the shock of the accident and realizing her predicament, I think it was possible she accepted a ride from a cleancut, friendly guy closer to her age. Ted Bundy lured girls with charm and good looks, but a scary looking man would have a problem. Most women would back away. I'm not saying Maura accepted a ride, just that I don't think it was improbable. JMO

You just described Santa Claus. I've always had a problem with the theory that Maura would not accept a ride from BA because he was scary or fat or whatever. One thing Maura knew for sure was that he was a school bus driver, unless she just happened to run into someone who steals school buses. Everyone tries so hard to describe him in the worst possible way, stinky, fat, ugly mean. So many have theorized that she would wait for a more suitable ride and then they usually describe him as "a nice looking young man" Yeah I'm sure there were plenty of those types out there that night riding around looking for girls to kill. The only way I see her getting into a car was if it was a woman or a man with a woman.

If it was Maura that was spotted 5 miles away then we can at least theorize that until she was seen by the man coming home from work that A. she hadn't seen any cars until this man B. She had seen a car or cars and hid just like she did when she saw this man C. Someone did ask her if she needed a ride and refused. I don't find C too likely since she seemed to not want to take any rides. Why? well she refused a ride from BA and ran off the road when she saw another car headed her way. It was dark by the time she saw the second man so she had no way of knowing who was driving any car that past her on the road so how could Maura be waiting to take a ride from a nice young man when she would have had to literally wait for the car to stop and turn the inside light on for her to see who was in the car!!

 

[telemag]

Very interesting update to say the least.


http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

 

[gnomony]

Very interesting update to say the least.


http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

Agreed. And it could explain both the father's resistance to Renner and LE's lack of detail in public discussion.

This link will stay specific to the post you refer to: http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/09/real-maura-murray.html

 

[telemag]

The hit on the credit report would have been dated, for one thing. Most car loan applicatons are resolved in a day or two. It would be unlikely that an employer would have been called because she would have been asked at the dealership to provide paystubs, although I don't know how small dealers and the national chains that self-finance (e.g., J. D. Byrider, etc.) handle that stuff. But even mortgage loans and other bank loans want paystubs. How would a caller know that the person answering the phone to verify employment is not the equivalent of Kramer on the Seinfeld show verifying the George works for Vandelay Industries? It is also not likely that with small part-time jobs and no recent full-time employment, she could have qualified for a decent car loan without her father's signature; more likely, a parent would have had to buy it outright. Credit was easier to get when Maura disappeared, but I can't imagine an employer letting a phone call about Maura trying to buy a car pass in the weeks after she disappeared, in the unlikely event that the employer was called. And what about
insurance? Egad, two wrecks in a week? Red flags everywhere.

ETA: I just re-read Renner's last two blog posts. I don't buy a word of the bank story. This
person works for a bank and against all regulations just happens to search Maura's name and her personal info "looks familiar" so he compounds his unethical behavior and writes stuff down? Yeah. That's plausible. And he doesn't know a human in LE to give that tip to? I know a cop at my gym I could tell. Cops protect anonymous sources. No one would out him to the bank. Some police officer would get credit for checking the banks; that would be it. And come on, why would anyone be afraid to post here? (Topix is a hostile environment, I concede, but the other forums have had a relative of Maura as a poster and while we debate, we don't attack.) And for that matter, why would anyone POST huge info like that ANYWHERE, let alone contact a brand new blog. Instead of Fred Murray, or even a PI on the case. All that would take is a postcard to Fred. And why would a blogger post that instead of calling NH state police. I can think of only one reason. It ain't about finding Maura.

Yes agreed that there would have been a inquiry on her credit report. The question is would LE think to look at her credit report? Does anyone here know if that was ever done? Since Maura has not been declared legally dead her credit is still active.

As far as bank employees go I know plenty and they all know stuff they are not suppossed to know. It's human nature to look at things you don't have any business looking at. I'm not saying that this piece of info is credible just that people love to talk and gossip.

 

[APIMaple]

Agreed. And it could explain both the father's resistance to Renner and LE's lack of detail in public discussion.

This link will stay specific to the post you refer to: http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2011/09/real-maura-murray.html

Lord. How things come up from the dirt when you dig away. I'm not sure how much of this I believe.
How in the world could this guy have stayed underground for all of these years? Seriously!

 

[telemag]

Lord. How things come up from the dirt when you dig away. I'm not sure how much of this I believe.
How in the world could this guy have stayed underground for all of these years? Seriously!

It's tuff to hear, but Maura was just your average college girl. Your average college girl who was having a long distance relationship with a guy (Billy) who supposedly cheated on her. How hard is it to believe that she found comfort in another mans arms. Apparently her friends encouraged her to see this man. Just because "we" didn't know doesn't make it hard to believe and I doubt her friends would want her to be thought of in a bad way by the public so that is probabley why this never came out. The fact that it stayed off the boards so long just goes to show you how little anyone has really dug for info on Maura.

 

[scoops]

It's tuff to hear, but Maura was just your average college girl. Your average college girl who was having a long distance relationship with a guy (Billy) who supposedly cheated on her. How hard is it to believe that she found comfort in another mans arms. Apparently her friends encouraged her to see this man. Just because "we" didn't know doesn't make it hard to believe and I doubt her friends would want her to be thought of in a bad way by the public so that is probabley why this never came out. The fact that it stayed off the boards so long just goes to show you how little anyone has really dug for info on Maura.

And we are back to square one.
Maura didn't run off with Billy
Maura didn't run off with this assistant track coach
Maura just simply ran off (by herself and towards the mountains)

 

[APIMaple]

It's tuff to hear, but Maura was just your average college girl. Your average college girl who was having a long distance relationship with a guy (Billy) who supposedly cheated on her. How hard is it to believe that she found comfort in another mans arms. Apparently her friends encouraged her to see this man. Just because "we" didn't know doesn't make it hard to believe and I doubt her friends would want her to be thought of in a bad way by the public so that is probabley why this never came out. The fact that it stayed off the boards so long just goes to show you how little anyone has really dug for info on Maura.

Yeah, the fact that she found someone else is completely believable. What is crazy is how long this guy's name stayed buried. Other claims of having said she would disappear and things of that nature. This is getting to be far too Hitchcockian.

Amazing things really. I can really see now though why Fred wouldn't want this coming up.