NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[Swamp Fox Trot]

I think she had something bothering her such as an eating disorder or something similar.

Quite a few cross country runner girls have eating disorders.

 

[OldSteve]

FWIW:

the contractor's house he built is not the white one in the picture.

You have to look for the a-frame house it is being hidden by the shade of the trees and it is a dark color. (when you first open up the picture link, look to your top right and you should see the a-frame house with a van parked beside it. this is the house that was being built when maura went missing.

Thanks Scoops! House is bigger than I imagined, and wonder how much of it was completed at time of MM's crash.

When I was a kid in the 1950's - we didn't have lots to play with... there were lots of houses being built around the woods my friends and I liked to play in - and exploring houses being built was something we did, much to the chagrin of builders and parents.. some were builders were nice in that they were really concerned about our safety. We did not damage things, just poked around...

...but I remember one construction guy who seems nutty, thinking (for reason) were looking to damage things - he grabbed a board and chased us - looking for an excuse to hurt us should he catch us.. friend of mind actually broke his leg falling into the cellar while being chased by this guy!

Anyway, all OT, but those experiences biased my thinking that if I were MM that night, and I saw a house under construction, that's where I would go.. also wonder if once inside, in the dark (that flashlight question again) what if she fell or tripped.... hate to think of her meeting up with a bogie man who has misconstrued ideas about is taking place (partying, drugs, out to damage things)...

Considering the house is set back, I would think if MM did try to go to it, she would have left prints in the snow that would have been obvious...

 

[Jane Birch]

Wow, I had never heard that before. I do remember reading something about Fred saying "My god, she's gone off into the mountains to die like an old squaw" or something to that effect when the disappearance first happened, which would indicate that he thought there was a possibility of suicide.

I just don't see Maura going off into the woods in the pitch darkness near the crash site in NH to commit suicide. I get that if she killed herself she obviously wanted to die, but it just doesn't make sense that she'd purposely ensure that her last few moments were terrifying and in the darkness, without even a chance for her to enjoy the view from the top of a mountain, which she is said to have loved so much. It seems that if suicide was her intention, she would want to enjoy a final hike, find a nice spot, and then drink herself to death in a place she felt "at home". So it does stand to reason that if Maura got a ride that night, even if her intention was to go somewhere to die, that info WOULD be very pertinent to finding Maura because if we knew where Maura was dropped off, we'd know where to look for a body.

I'm still not sold on any one theory...the main scenarios (suicide, foul play, secret new life, accidental death from exposure) all seem pretty reasonable to me.

...and my dad has always said to take him behind the barn and shoot him like Old Yeller. It doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

[Jane Birch]

Besides whatever she had on, her running gear was the only clothes she brought. I have a problem with that if we are to assume she was taking a one week vacation or starting a new life.

Coupled with the fact that she didn't even take a change of clothes with her when she fled her car.

Where did you get this information? I don't recall either of it being verified. Fir instance, it was thought for a couple of years that Maura was wearing a specific coat when she disappeared, that her sister later found in her closet. So it's possible she took clothes with her when she left. I don't know, though.

I'm pretty sure I seem to recall there being an inventory somewhere of what was discovered in her car, but I don't recall there being no clothes but running clothes on that inventory.

 

[Jane Birch]

Renner claims on his blog that all of Maura's alcohol bottles were not only accounted for, but that every single alcohol container was left in Maura's car. Comments on the article seemed skeptical, but Renner insisted that the alcohol bottles were all in Maura's car. Has this ever been verified by someone other than Renner?

No it has not.

 

[Jane Birch]

I watched a repeat of the TV show on Maura just last night and it was the first time I've learned about the situation. From what was reported on that special, I think Maura was in shock from the accident and was walking around aimlessly. I think she's still out there somewhere.

Is her father still looking for her?

Every minute of every day, Kimster.

 

[scoops]

Where did you get this information? I don't recall either of it being verified. Fir instance, it was thought for a couple of years that Maura was wearing a specific coat when she disappeared, that her sister later found in her closet. So it's possible she took clothes with her when she left. I don't know, though.

I'm pretty sure I seem to recall there being an inventory somewhere of what was discovered in her car, but I don't recall there being no clothes but running clothes on that inventory.

I got some of my information from the display photo that was shot of Maura's older sister (kneeling down in a room in the wells river motel during the family's search for maura) next to the items found in maura's car. Display photos are designed to tell the story so they would include everthing (complete inventory) of what was found in maura's car.

In the display photo (that I posted on this website and james later used on his blog) you can clearly see a black sweater and a pair of gray sweatpants (same clothes maura was wearing in a photo with her father while the two were on one of their hiking adventures.

In the display photo, you also seem maura's (alleged school books) when they are actually reference books for nursing. A pair of running shoes which her sister is clutching onto and a notebook (which i believe is more significant than people realize because I believe she was going to create another note still)

You can also see in that photo of maura's sister, the bag maura had her stuff packed in and it was a average size gym bag and while maybe the bag does have some underclothing in it (not displayed for the photo) there is no way that a week's worth of clothing would fit in it, likely not more than a few days worth. Considering she did have a hand-made toilteries bag as well.

A missing person poster noted maura as having a black coat on and jeans and displayed a photo of the same type of jacket (not sure if that is what you are referring to) but that could've (like you point out) proven to be wrong if her sister did later find the jacket.

 

[McSpy]

Hello all. I am new to the site. But I have been following missing/lost for quite a while. I live in NH

In regard to the MM mystery –Let me first say that I believe she was taken against her will.

I know that a rag in a tailpipe will cause mechanical failure and I believe this led to the ‘accident’. MM crossed the path of a person who is responsible for her demise. I’ll stop short of using the ‘SK’ word.

I know that many people would like to get away from life’s issues—if only for a short while to a place of solitude. Some folks act on emotion. Some endure in different ways. MM was going to a place where she could get away from it all, I believe. That is the simple story.

I know via the weather service that in Haverhill, NH there was a high temp of 13 degrees F, with a low of 2 degrees on 2/9/04 and I know the survival rate for even the most seasoned athlete is very slim and that she would not attempt to run any distance. Especially since the airbag had deployed in her face—I’ve seen that result. It can be incapacitating. Just the thing to make her more vulnerable to who saw her last. (We don’t really know who that was, do we??). I believe it was a stranger with a disorganized agenda who was successful.


I believe that the longer one is missing more ideas are raised—that can be a good thing. LE/politics – with all due respect of course-- will never allow us to know what has become of many missing for reasons I won’t get into here.

I truly hope that the story of MM and the many others missing/murdered in VT, NH and the US will be told.

I read that the temps on the evening of Feb. 9, 2004 were around 33f. The intial report in the media of 12f was wrong. I found the weather for that day in St. Johnsbury Vt. Here is the info:

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

In the graphs below, it appears the temps were very low in the morning, but rose alot after noon. I could be reading this wrong, but it looks like the temp was over 30f the evening Maura disappeared.

 

[scoops]

I read that the temps on the evening of Feb. 9, 2004 were around 33f. The intial report in the media of 12f was wrong. I found the weather for that day in St. Johnsbury Vt. Here is the info:

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

In the graphs below, it appears the temps were very low in the morning, but rose alot after noon. I could be reading this wrong, but it looks like the temp was over 30f the evening Maura disappeared.

Very good point McSpy

I was confused on this as well as I had gone to the weather almanac and punched in Feb 9, 2004 for the local weather that day

But what people have to realize is that Feb 10 is what needs to be punched in not feb 9. Maura would've been out in the elements that Tuesday morning (If she remained outside)

And weather on Feb 10, 2004 was a lot milder than the highs and lows on Feb 9.

 

[deathtracker]

The official weather record in Benton, NH which is 11 south of where MM was in Haverhill, NH can be viewed at weathersource.com as follows:

2/9/04--2/10/04= Max temp of 37F, Mean temp of 23F and a Low temp of 9F.

It was a cold night along about 7pm.

 

[McSpy]

The official weather record in Benton, NH which is 11 south of where MM was in Haverhill, NH can be viewed at weathersource.com as follows:

2/9/04--2/10/04= Max temp of 37F, Mean temp of 23F and a Low temp of 9F.

It was a cold night along about 7pm.

I'm not following you. What do you mean by "it was a cold night along about 7pm"?

 

[McSpy]

Here is something else about the temperature that night from an article on Maura's case:

"It had been quite cold earlier in the day, but by 2 p.m. a warming trend drove the temperatures above freezing and they hovered around 33 degrees Fahrenheit for most of the night. (Later reports would erroneously state the high temperature at 12 degrees.)"

http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=57

 

[McSpy]

Here is something else from the article. I posted it's link above:

"Maura struggled to get out of her Saturn because the car door was hitting against a snowbank, Atwood recalled when interviewed for this story from his new home in Florida. There was as much as two and a half feet of snow on the ground in the area."

As a bus driver, he most likely remembered this correctly. 2 1/2 feet of snow is significant. This suggests it would have been a struggle for Maura, if she tried to hike anywhere in the woods or climb a mountain. JMO

 

[deathtracker]

Having lived in new england for 57 years I know how temps can and do fluctuate anywhere and at any time of the year.

I was mearly pointing out that from the reliable data sites I have visited that IMO I believe the temps will and do get colder at night fall. (7:00pmish).

This is no time for foot travel (not that I believe she traveled on foot).

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Jane Birch]

In the display photo, you also seem maura's (alleged school books) when they are actually reference books for nursing.

Those ARE nursing textbooks. Yes, they are reference guides, but they are ridiculously common to use as texts in nursing programs. In addition to providing the information a nursing student needs for a given class, it then adds to the student's professional library when the semester is over. It's how the profession works. I know a lot of nursing students. They've all used these (or their updated versions) for a class at one time or another.

 

[dllvt]

Hello - I'm new to WS but have been lurking here & on several other forums in the last couple of months. I live near & wk in St Johnsbury VT which is about 30 miles away from Haverhill NH. I do not know what the weather was like in Haverhill the night Maura disappeared but I do know what it was like in St J. I'm not a meteorologist so I can only describe it from a layperson's point of view. Ironically the only reason I remember the exact date is because of her disappearance. In 2003 I'd taken up snowshoeing. In 03 we had lots of snow and warm sunny days. I went snowshoeing a lot & loved it. But in the beginning of 2004 there wasnt much snowfall &/or sunny days. Plus I was working a lot. Monday Feb 9th started off chilly in the single didgits & a little overcast. Weather reports were calling for clearing skies with lots of sunshine and warm temperatures due to a warm front moving in. My plan was to get off work early & head out snowshoeing. No such luck. As I worked I watched the day turn absolutely gorgeous. As the clouds cleared out the sun got brighter so it warmed up quickly, well above freezing. The first really warm day in weeks. When I left the office around 7pm it was dark. The moon was out. Not full, but close to it and bright. The stars were out. There were a few clouds but they were fast moving and didnt block out the light for long. It wasnt really snowing, just snow crystals floating in the air. It was calm, no wind. My guess would be at or near freezing 32F. Usually once the sun goes down the temp starts dropping fast but not that night. On the drive home from St J I'd decided the weather was perfect & I might not get another chance to snowshoe. It was my first time snowshoeing at night. It's bittersweet when I think about it now. There wasnt a lot of snow and what there was had frozen and thawed and compacted to the point I barely needed the snowshoes. But still a beautiful winter night. When I returned home around 9:30 the temps had dropped a little but not much. My guess would be somewhere in the mid 20sF.

Again I dont know what it was like 30 miles away in Haverhill. The warm front that had moved into the St J area was very slow moving & stayed until thursday night before it started breaking up. By the weekend it was gone. It's possible the warm front hadnt fully made it's way into the Haverhill area so their temperatures may have been colder. Just a few miles can make a difference. To give you an idea. My mother lives 5 miles away from me in a little valley along the river and yet she quite often is 5 degrees colder than me in the winter.

 

[scoops]

According to Farmer's Weather Almanac:

(St. Johnsbury-Bath, NH area)

Saturday Feb 7, 2004
Minimum temp: 19.4 degrees
Mean: 27.1 degrees
Maximum: 44.6 degrees
0.09 inches of rain/snow reported.

Sunday Feb 8, 2004
Minimum temp: 1.4 degrees
Mean: 14.2 degrees
Maximum (No Data available)
No rain/snow reported.

Monday Feb 9, 2004
Minimum temp: (-7) degrees
Mean: 9.1 degrees
Maximum: 35.6 degrees
No rain/snow reported.
Wind gust maximum: 4.10 MPH

Tuesday Feb 10, 2004
Minimum temp: 28.4 degrees
Mean: 32.8 degrees
Maximum: 35.0 degrees
no rain/snow reported.
Wind gust maximum: 5.10 MPH


According to this statistical information, the minimum temp it could've been in the early morning hours of tuesday Feb 10 was 28.4 degrees. It never got colder than that from midnight on through into tuesday night.

 

[OldSteve]

Here is something else from the article. I posted it's link above:

"Maura struggled to get out of her Saturn because the car door was hitting against a snowbank, Atwood recalled when interviewed for this story from his new home in Florida. There was as much as two and a half feet of snow on the ground in the area."

As a bus driver, he most likely remembered this correctly. 2 1/2 feet of snow is significant. This suggests it would have been a struggle for Maura, if she tried to hike anywhere in the woods or climb a mountain. JMO

I think the 2.5 ft SBD was referring to was the snow bank, and not the amount of snow on open ground..?

It's an interesting comment - about her having trouble getting out of her car... So what did he do? Watch her struggle to get out? Then what happened... something doesn't play right... if she didn't want his help, wouldn't she have stayed in her car and said to him, "I'll be okay" ... I'll wait till AAA comes...
Also, why was this mentioned so much time later, when he was in FL..

 

[McSpy]

I think the 2.5 ft SBD was referring to was the snow bank, and not the amount of snow on open ground..?

It's an interesting comment - about her having trouble getting out of her car... So what did he do? Watch her struggle to get out? Then what happened... something doesn't play right... if she didn't want his help, wouldn't she have stayed in her car and said to him, "I'll be okay" ... I'll wait till AAA comes...
Also, why was this mentioned so much time later, when he was in FL..

Hmm, I recall a video where Maura's boyfriend was walking through the snow, looking for Maura, and it was very deep. The roads were pretty clear, but I believe the woods were covered with a fair amount of snow, but maybe it had snowed right after Maura disappeared--don't know.

I think with that kind of encounter people tend to be a little reserved. Unless Maura was an elderly woman struggling to get out her car, I might not have been too quick about jumping to help Maura out of her car door. She may have looked capable to him. Keep in mind, he could have been still sitting in the drivers seat of his idling bus when she was getting out of her car. Also, the accident wasn't a big wreck. It was considered a minor fender bender. JMO

 

[dllvt]

From the beginning all the different published accounts of what the SBD saw &/or did was frustrating & confusing to the public. Are the different accounts due to the reporters & journalists misinterpreting him? Or did he actually change his statements? It caused a lot of rumor and speculation back then & It's still not clear 8 yrs later. Add to it the intial reports & flyers all had the time of Maura's accident to be around 7pm. Then it was changed to the time of Butch's 911 call & after that to the time of the Westman's call. It had people scratching their heads thinking cant anybody get anything right.

It's been mentioned many times that LE has not officially ruled out anyone. I dont believe LE considered SBA to be responsible for Maura's disappearance. Neither do I. However I would like to know why LE feels they need to keep SBA's 911 call from the family & public. It should contain no evidence of "foul play". One would think it'd support their initial run away suicide theory. Also why would LE need a warrant to open the car on 2/10/2004 before ever even speaking with Fred Murray?

On Renner's blog there's a letter to Cheif Williams from Woodsville Rescue & Ambulance dated 3/8/04 with an interesting sentence in the last paragraph. (Murray 002-1.pdf) It reads "Also, Dick Guy mentioned he had noticed a couple of odd things at the MVA that he is curious if HPD was made aware of." What did he notice? Rumors travel like wild fires in our small communities so I find it hard to believe Dick was referring to the rag almost 30 days after the accident. Especially since it was mentioned in the Caledonian the week of the accident. Through local rumor and again through forum discussion it's been mentioned that officer Cecil Smith wouldn't allow Fire & Rescue personnel near the vehicle or allow them to look in the backseat. When I first heard the rumors my first thought was it sounded to me as if he was securing what he thought to be a stolen vehicle. Back then that seemed crazy. But Now all these years later I'm not so sure.