NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[McSpy]

I think the FACT she was a block away from the hit and run, decreases your lists of suspects some. (I'm not saying she was involved. But not quite sure why everyone is so dismissive.

Oh, nevermind I forgot. This forum is about what we hope happened to maura and has nothing to do with actual facts or evidence.

I think the problem is we will probably never know what happened to Vasi. We do know Maura had problems on her mind (cc fraud, crashed dad's brand new car and whatever else). To me, this suggests she had enough reasons to feel emotionally distraught, which led to her taking the impulsive trip up north. This is all we need to know other than what happened to her after her accident in NH.
JMO

 

[scoops]

I think the problem is we will probably never know what happened to Vasi. We do know Maura had problems on her mind (cc fraud, crashed dad's brand new car and whatever else). To me, this suggests she had enough reasons to feel emotionally distraught, which led to her taking the impulsive trip up north. This is all we need to know other than what happened to her after her accident in NH.
JMO

I would argue that instead of looking at her crashing her father's brand new car as yet another problem she picked up that the incident was actually a symptom of her already being troubled by something big. The same symptom that led to her second wreck IMO.

 

[deca]

We know for a fact that she got into some car accidents recent to her disappearance. We also know that she got in trouble for the CC stuff.

As far as the accident or how distraught she might be over boyfriend- we'll never know for sure. I don't think it really matters as to her fate. Whether or not these two things are important does not change the fact that she drove that night and disappeared.

I guess some people think that if she killed Vasi, then she might have been driven to suicide? Is that why that accident is important?

-not being snarky here just trying to figure out everyone's angles-

 

[scoops]

We know for a fact that she got into some car accidents recent to her disappearance. We also know that she got in trouble for the CC stuff.

As far as the accident or how distraught she might be over boyfriend- we'll never know for sure. I don't think it really matters as to her fate. Whether or not these two things are important does not change the fact that she drove that night and disappeared.

I guess some people think that if she killed Vasi, then she might have been driven to suicide? Is that why that accident is important?

-not being snarky here just trying to figure out everyone's angles-

The accident is important because it has never been properly investigated and maura's crying outburst at work fits in the time-frame of when the hit and run took place.

Speaking for myself only, I didn't come up with the suicide theory as a result of the vasi hit and run.

I believe maura had issues with her boyfriend.

After years of dismissing a possible link to the vasi hit and run, I decided to dig in and look deeper to try and prove that maura WASN'T involved and I have been highly unsuccessful at doing so, which doesn't mean she was involved but it raises questions that should be able to be answered and for eight/nine years have not been answered.

 

[McSpy]

I would argue that instead of looking at her crashing her father's brand new car as yet another problem she picked up that the incident was actually a symptom of her already being troubled by something big. The same symptom that led to her second wreck IMO.

Sure, but where does it take us? We already know she was troubled about something in her life. I can see looking for possible issues if there was a question on her state of mind, but we already know she had things going on in her life that would bother most people. Are you thinking the Vasi accident would fit in with Maura possibly being suicidal?

 

[scoops]

Sure, but where does it take us? We already know she was troubled about something in her life. I can see looking for possible issues if there was a question on her state of mind, but we already know she had things going on in her life that would bother most people. Are you thinking the Vasi accident would fit in with Maura possibly being suicidal?

As I've said, I have been leaning on the suicide theory long before I ever considered her involved in a hit and run.

If she was involved in the hit and run, then IMO, it would change everything.

Maura and her relationship woes, cc fraud woes, etc... wouldn't mean a whole lot and a hit and run in which at the time you struck the person, you had no clue whether or not they would even survive, would weigh heavily on any person no matter how together they were about themselves.

I could envision something like that happening to me (where I hit someone and fled the scene) leading to me ending up in a handful of wrecks a few days later, because I would be a basket case I would think wondering what I had done and wanting to escape the reality of the situation.

I would (especially if I was in my early 20's) likely turn to a parent for help in that situation. I would not want to deal with that alone.

However, I may be in such a basket case type condition that having a parent around may not be enough and I may end up doing something more drastic, even despite the efforts of the parent to calm me down and help me take care of the situation.

 

[Skigirl]

I am older than MM, but recently I had a pile-on of things happen -- just sort of snowballing with what felt like increasing velocity -- a new boss, strange politics at work, the shock of a sudden a terminal illness in the family, and a million smaller things happen at once that made me obsessed with the idea of a sailing trip or a luxury hotel room alone in the mountains where I could just order room service and have some quiet, so I can relate to the idea of wanting to escape. I could totally see myself loading up my laptop and decamping to an undisclosed location to at least get some work done in peace, and I probably would if I didn't have responsibilities at home. So, with that new insight from my own experience, I don't think Maura's behavior was that strange. I am certainly not suicidal. I just want all the external stuff to go away for a little while.

 

[MysteryMaven]

I think the FACT she was a block away from the hit and run, decreases your lists of suspects some. (I'm not saying she was involved. But not quite sure why everyone is so dismissive.

Oh, nevermind I forgot. This forum is about what we hope happened to maura and has nothing to do with actual facts or evidence.

Let's say something comes out that proves Maura was involved in the hit and run. Does that mean that everyone can say that it's definitive proof that she must have run off to commit suicide? Or that she must have run off to Canada? No. Proof of the hit and run doesn't really move the case forward in any way in my opinion. It's an interesting angle of the case but it doesn't explain what happened to her after she left the car accident site. I would like to know more about it and I don't dismiss it as something that she may have been involved in, but it doesn't automatically equate to her committing suicide.

 

[Alden Howes Olson]

Let's say something comes out that proves Maura was involved in the hit and run. Does that mean that everyone can say that it's definitive proof that she must have run off to commit suicide? Or that she must have run off to Canada? No. Proof of the hit and run doesn't really move the case forward in any way in my opinion. It's an interesting angle of the case but it doesn't explain what happened to her after she left the car accident site. I would like to know more about it and I don't dismiss it as something that she may have been involved in, but it doesn't automatically equate to her committing suicide.

Good point. Of course, if the Saturn did hit the pedestrian but was not driven by Maura, then there could be a link between a hit-and-run and Maura's subsequent disappearance. And it doesn't really need to involve suicide or perishing in the woods at all.

 

[Alden Howes Olson]

I am older than MM, but recently I had a pile-on of things happen -- just sort of snowballing with what felt like increasing velocity -- a new boss, strange politics at work, the shock of a sudden a terminal illness in the family, and a million smaller things happen at once that made me obsessed with the idea of a sailing trip or a luxury hotel room alone in the mountains where I could just order room service and have some quiet, so I can relate to the idea of wanting to escape. I could totally see myself loading up my laptop and decamping to an undisclosed location to at least get some work done in peace, and I probably would if I didn't have responsibilities at home. So, with that new insight from my own experience, I don't think Maura's behavior was that strange. I am certainly not suicidal. I just want all the external stuff to go away for a little while.

Excellent observation. Seeking comfort may be what many people do when multiple stressors come out of nowhere. They might seek their own version of harmony, familiarity, and escape. Some people might retreat to the solitude of an oceanside hotel for a few days in the off-season. Others might seek out party friends a few hours away.

 

[Kristin83]

Did either of these "sightings" ever pan out?

-A guy swears he saw Maura at a Father's Day church service, and if I remember right, identified herself by a very unique name
-A woman in a convenience store says she saw Maura in there with a man mouthing the words "help me"

-The church sighting sounds a little far fetched....I'm guessing it was just a girl who looked like Maura. And the convenience store one sounds like a bad movie.

 

[deca]

Did either of these "sightings" ever pan out?

-A guy swears he saw Maura at a Father's Day church service, and if I remember right, identified herself by a very unique name
-A woman in a convenience store says she saw Maura in there with a man mouthing the words "help me"

-The church sighting sounds a little far fetched....I'm guessing it was just a girl who looked like Maura. And the convenience store one sounds like a bad movie.

And don't most convenience stores have cameras? I would think that if this had been a timely and convincing tip, the cameras would have been checked out. Although I don't know MM, I am guessing that with her track background and self confidence she would have tried to escape or call greater attention to herself if she was out in public under duress. JMO

 

[McSpy]

Did either of these "sightings" ever pan out?

-A guy swears he saw Maura at a Father's Day church service, and if I remember right, identified herself by a very unique name
-A woman in a convenience store says she saw Maura in there with a man mouthing the words "help me"

-The church sighting sounds a little far fetched....I'm guessing it was just a girl who looked like Maura. And the convenience store one sounds like a bad movie.

There was someone on this thread a while ago (2 years?) who lived around the region of Maura's NH accident. He said there was someone who looked a lot like Maura in the area of one of those sightings. He believed it was mistaken identification. I don't think any of those sightings panned out. JMO

 

[scoops]

Did either of these "sightings" ever pan out?

-A guy swears he saw Maura at a Father's Day church service, and if I remember right, identified herself by a very unique name
-A woman in a convenience store says she saw Maura in there with a man mouthing the words "help me"

-The church sighting sounds a little far fetched....I'm guessing it was just a girl who looked like Maura. And the convenience store one sounds like a bad movie.

None of those sightings ever panned out according to law enforcement.

The one sighting that is believed to possibly have taken place is the contractor who saw someone running and dodging away from his vehicle as he apporached (about five miles east of the accident) later in the evening of the night maura went missing.

No way to prove or disprove the contractor, however so that will stand as an unconfirmed sighting

 

[scoops]

I am older than MM, but recently I had a pile-on of things happen -- just sort of snowballing with what felt like increasing velocity -- a new boss, strange politics at work, the shock of a sudden a terminal illness in the family, and a million smaller things happen at once that made me obsessed with the idea of a sailing trip or a luxury hotel room alone in the mountains where I could just order room service and have some quiet, so I can relate to the idea of wanting to escape. I could totally see myself loading up my laptop and decamping to an undisclosed location to at least get some work done in peace, and I probably would if I didn't have responsibilities at home. So, with that new insight from my own experience, I don't think Maura's behavior was that strange. I am certainly not suicidal. I just want all the external stuff to go away for a little while.

If it were just that simple though.

The father introduced the suicide theory to the officers when he arrived to the area. That is a FACT, not an observation or a guess or an assumption.

The police (at the point the father had arrived to the accident location) hadn't yet developed their own theory on maura. She was just someone that had fled a possible DUI charge and nothing more at that point. they hadn't done any more investigating into her case, because at that point, there was no case to be investigated. (They already had all of her information).



The note she left in her dorm room (an old email dealing with her boyfriend's infidelity) is also a clue that maura wasn't just going away on a start of the school semester vacation.

The note was left on top of her packed and stacked boxes on her bed.

The note didn't fall from the ceiling and land on the boxes.

If maura truly was on an innocent vacation, she would've sought help after her accident IMO, not ran from it. She didn't have to get the help of the SBD, she could've went to anyone of the other neighbor's houses in the area of her wreck. She could've walked a mile back west to the general store that was open, if she was really errie about approaching a strangers house for help.

Maura left the scene of the accident on her own free will and not wanting help. And she didn't take her clothes or valuables with her.

 

[OldSteve]

I see there's a newer version (for me at least) of the last miles of MM fateful trip, so for those who haven't seen it:
Maura Murray's Last Known Drive - YouTube

As you look at this video, see the road condition after a snowfall (pot holes, stones, patches of slush/ice); now then picture this at night, especially as you look at the road nearing her crash - it would be very difficult to run on without a flashlight or really bright overhead moonlight.

I wonder if the gas station shown at ~4.36 was where she stopped for gas....

Note the comment below the video about "there has never been more than about 30 minutes that a car hasn’t driven by. (On the 7 year anniversary of Maura’s accident) Feb 9th 2010 from 7:30pm to about 8:30pm we had approximately 10 vehicles drive by"....

With that many cars going by, if she ran, someone should have seen her; on the other hand, that many cars going by sadly increases the odds of a random crime of opportunity abduction.

The fade-in to her and her dad at the end is most touching!

ETA: would be interesting to see same video taken at the same time she drove it...

 

[Alden Howes Olson]

Something puzzles me. A MA guy with 20 years autobody experience, who says he saw the Saturn in person not long before it left MA and then saw photos of it taken after it was parked at Twin Mtn. in NH, said that the front of the car had sustained two separate impacts. The first impact, he said, looked as if a person or similar kind of object had rolled across the hood; which was the only impact he claimed to have seen while looking at the car in person in MA. He pointed out how this happened. The second impact, he speculated, was caused by something else, but he didn't know what. He was also present when the police closely inspected the Corolla. I'm not sure what this means, if anything. Any ideas?

 

[MysteryMaven]

I see there's a newer version (for me at least) of the last miles of MM fateful trip, so for those who haven't seen it:
Maura Murray's Last Known Drive - YouTube

As you look at this video, see the road condition after a snowfall (pot holes, stones, patches of slush/ice); now then picture this at night, especially as you look at the road nearing her crash - it would be very difficult to run on without a flashlight or really bright overhead moonlight.

I wonder if the gas station shown at ~4.36 was where she stopped for gas....

Note the comment below the video about "there has never been more than about 30 minutes that a car hasn’t driven by. (On the 7 year anniversary of Maura’s accident) Feb 9th 2010 from 7:30pm to about 8:30pm we had approximately 10 vehicles drive by"....

With that many cars going by, if she ran, someone should have seen her; on the other hand, that many cars going by sadly increases the odds of a random crime of opportunity abduction.

The fade-in to her and her dad at the end is most touching!

ETA: would be interesting to see same video taken at the same time she drove it...

This video is so sad. It really made me think about how Maura must have felt after the accident-scared with no idea what to do next. It was dark, and she didn't take anything with her when she left the accident site. Just locked the car and left. But where did she go and how did she get there? My theories seem to change daily concerning Maura's case. Wish some new info would come out. I don't see any more avenues to sleuth!

 

[McSpy]

Something puzzles me. A MA guy with 20 years autobody experience, who says he saw the Saturn in person not long before it left MA and then saw photos of it taken after it was parked at Twin Mtn. in NH, said that the front of the car had sustained two separate impacts. The first impact, he said, looked as if a person or similar kind of object had rolled across the hood; which was the only impact he claimed to have seen while looking at the car in person in MA. He pointed out how this happened. The second impact, he speculated, was caused by something else, but he didn't know what. He was also present when the police closely inspected the Corolla. I'm not sure what this means, if anything. Any ideas?

Who is the MA guy with 20 years experience in autobody work? This is the first time I have heard of it. Did you read about this man or had contact with him?

 

[Alden Howes Olson]

Who is the MA guy with 20 years experience in autobody work? This is the first time I have heard of it. Did you read about this man or had contact with him?

I talked with him a few years ago. I showed a photo of the Saturn to several well experienced autobody guys in western MA and asked them what they thought happened to the front of the car. I asked them in a very neutral, non-leading way. "How do you think this happened?" They all said roughly the same thing. But one of them immediately recognized the Saturn and told me he had seen it in Amherst before it was found in NH. He recognized it and said it had the "ripples" in the hood. He then went on to describe the Corolla, which he had seen close-up on Monday, and he had talked with the police who were inspecting the Corolla very carefully.

Presumably, if the cops looking at the Corolla knew its owner, which they did, then they also knew from RMV records about his ownership of the Saturn, which at that point was still a few hours from being discovered abandoned on 112 in Haverhill NH. Considering the fact that the police were looking for a vehicle that might be involved in a potential case of motor vehicle homicide, it seems logical to assume they would want to know where the Saturn was, too.

Since the autobody guy had already talked with police about what he knew, I saw no harm in posting that information - years old by then - online. A few hours later, after dark, someone lightly vandalized my backyard. They stripped the cables from my lawnmower and threw around some cross-sections of a recently felled maple tree. This neighborhood is an exceptionally safe one. In over 20 years there was not the slightest vandalism that I ever even heard of. No breaks, no suspicious persons around, nothing. It seemed that mentioning the Corolla inspection online and the vandalism were most likely connected, like it was a message. Maybe they got scared off when they must have tripped a motion detector light in the backyard.

It's a weird and hard thing to explain.