NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 9

[Riot]

4.The biggest issue I find confusing with the car shopping was that it was done on the weekend. Anyone from Mass knows the RMV isnt open on the wekkends and that Mass does not issue Temp Tags until you get the full registration done. You first get your insurer to fill out the RMV form along with your policy number, then you take it to the RMV where it is then processed, and then you recieve your registration and plates. I dont see someone buying a car on the weekend here in Massachusetts and driving it home that day on the weekend. Someone correct me if I wrong.

I don't remember if things were the same way in 2004, but today you have a 7 day grace period to transfer your registration from your old vehicle to the new one. (http://www.mass.gov/rmv/faq/registration.htm#16 - just to back up my claim)

I actually got a new car last week and they let me take the vehicle before my new registration came through. All I had to do was put my old plates on and keep the purchase and sale agreement with me. Maura would have been in the same situation, as she already had a valid registration on the Saturn.

 

[Riot]

I also wanted to make some comments on JR's "What I Believe" post, but most of you already hit what I wanted to say:

1) I don't think Maura was "traveling in tandem" (and I'm not even sure what JR is claiming as "overwhelming evidence" here).
2) I also don't think there is any evidence to dispute the claim that Fred and Maura went car shopping.
3) If people did know where she was going, and she isn't currently alive and in hiding, why have they not come forward after almost a decade?
4) If "golden egg" is a secret boyfriend, I would have to agree that we don't have enough (any?) evidence to suggest this theory is true, so I'm with JR there (but I thought that JR had previously proposed a UMass Assistant Track Coach as her secret boyfriend).
5) I don't know that there is "a good chance" that Maura is still alive. I maintain that I believe that Maura has sadly passed, and personally rank possible fates as: kidnapping > exposure > suicide > new life. Although, and I'm not sure if I've seen this proposed, I would put some possibility on her being kept alive in captivity.

I look forward to JR publishing so that his claims may be independently run to ground and continue to hope for closure for Maura's family and friends.

 

[NHwoodsman]

The best hope of finding Maura Murray is probably an extended, exhaustive ground search of a 10 mile radius from the crash site. I personally expect someone like James Renner to show evidence that supports his theories. How can he say he believes MM traveled in tandem with someone and she is still alive? How does he know that? Why should anyone believe it? I need straight up facts and evidence, which there is not a lot of in this case.

Mr Renner wants to sell a book, as I have previously stated, dull books don't sell and many so called authors take liberty with so called facts. As far as a search, I have hiked the area and its very unforgiving, mountainous with extremely thick vegetation in much of the area. With all the debris from ice storms and tree's that have fallen along with the terrain its virtually impossible to do a thorough search. As a hunter I can tell even a deer size animal can be missed at a mere few feet away.

With the passage of time, and animal's finding any remains would be just about a miracle. I think the best bet would be remnants of clothing or her backpack or alcohol bottles. Another factor is the yearly falling of leaves burying items. Mice will eat bone, I've seen entire sets of moose antlers just about devoured. Sadly as more years pass the likely hood of any resolution grows dimmer. One of many very sad cases of the missing.

 

[amber1]

NHWoodsman,
Thank you for your post. I agree, the more time that passes, the more unlikely to find her due to the elements. Look at Molly Bish's case-her remains were in the woods, not too far at all from where she even vanished, and still it took awhile to find her. But what found her? What was left of her swimsuit. If it was not for that, IDK if she would have ever been found. If Maura is in the woods, I see it as being the most likely that a hunter stumbles across some of her belongings or clothing, like you also stated. I think it will take a miracle.

 

[Galbin]

I don't think people think about MM on a daily basis, but what I meant was that there should have been an awareness of her at the time of the disappearance. I know that my second cousin's name is very well known throughout the country I live in, on account of her disappearance in 1998.

She brought along her stuffed monkey from Billy to cozy up with another guy? I don't know. The whole idea comes across as speculation to me.

I so agree. I am very curious about James's evidence. I just don't see how there could be any weight to the theory that she ran away to a new life. I don't think she would let her mother die not knowing where she was, or that she would leave her father searching for her every weekend. I am waiting for his evidence.

.In general, the birth control pill is not used as a "morning after pill". One would have to take LARGE amounts of pills within 24-48 hours of unprotected intercourse, and even then it's not a guarantee of termination.

There is actually one of the old brands that used to be used as the morning after pill, before a specific one was created. You had to take 4 of these pills and they did in fact work in the same way that PlanB does.

I got the impression that Maura was Catholic since her name and appearance are both very Irish. Abortion is strictly prohibited in the Catholic religion. So, as crazy as it sounds, Catholic women have sometimes tried to give themselves abortions via "natural" or "non surgical" methods. Drinking to excess and taking a lot of BC pills at once are felt to be more like miscarriages than abortions for these women. So they don't feel like abortions in the way going to a clinic would.

She could also have been planning to start the new pack after an abortion, but I really don't think she would have needed to go so far if she wanted to go to an abortion clinic. These facilities were already in her area.

 

[~n/t~]

Have any of you considered Maura a victim of Israel Keyes?

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...00082958.81842.399521663428225&type=3&theater

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8697680&posted=1#post8697680

Unfortunately, I haven't followed Maura's case like many of you so wanted your opinions on this. Do you think he should be ruled in or out as the possible perp? If so, why?

TIA

 

[amber1]

Have any of you considered Maura a victim of Israel Keyes?

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...00082958.81842.399521663428225&type=3&theater

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8697680&posted=1#post8697680

Unfortunately, I haven't followed Maura's case like many of you so wanted your opinions on this. Do you think he should be ruled in or out as the possible perp? If so, why?

TIA

I read that was considered a possibility in her case and Brianna Maitland's-I know he was ruled out in the disappearance of Brianna Maitland.
It seems like they don't want to suggest he had something to do with her missing, but they want to rule out the possibility. I don't think he has been ruled out in her disappearance yet, but many feel it's unlikely:
http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120729/NEWS03/707299981

 

[MysteryMaven]

I don't think people think about MM on a daily basis, but what I meant was that there should have been an awareness of her at the time of the disappearance. I know that my second cousin's name is very well known throughout the country I live in, on account of her disappearance in 1998.



I so agree. I am very curious about James's evidence. I just don't see how there could be any weight to the theory that she ran away to a new life. I don't think she would let her mother die not knowing where she was, or that she would leave her father searching for her every weekend. I am waiting for his evidence.



There is actually one of the old brands that used to be used as the morning after pill, before a specific one was created. You had to take 4 of these pills and they did in fact work in the same way that PlanB does.

I got the impression that Maura was Catholic since her name and appearance are both very Irish. Abortion is strictly prohibited in the Catholic religion. So, as crazy as it sounds, Catholic women have sometimes tried to give themselves abortions via "natural" or "non surgical" methods. Drinking to excess and taking a lot of BC pills at once are felt to be more like miscarriages than abortions for these women. So they don't feel like abortions in the way going to a clinic would.

She could also have been planning to start the new pack after an abortion, but I really don't think she would have needed to go so far if she wanted to go to an abortion clinic. These facilities were already in her area.

Interesting point about the old pill brand. Anything is a possibility!
There are so many rabbit holes to go down in this case. Was she pregnant? Was she involved in the hit and run? Was she planning on leaving forever or just for a few days to clear her head? That's what makes this case so perplexing!

 

[MysteryMaven]

I read that was considered a possibility in her case and Brianna Maitland's-I know he was ruled out in the disappearance of Brianna Maitland.
It seems like they don't want to suggest he had something to do with her missing, but they want to rule out the possibility. I don't think he has been ruled out in her disappearance yet, but many feel it's unlikely:
http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120729/NEWS03/707299981

Thanks for posting this. Definitely an interesting angle!

 

[McSpy]

Have any of you considered Maura a victim of Israel Keyes?

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...00082958.81842.399521663428225&type=3&theater

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8697680&posted=1#post8697680

Unfortunately, I haven't followed Maura's case like many of you so wanted your opinions on this. Do you think he should be ruled in or out as the possible perp? If so, why?

TIA

I do think it is possible, but probably unlikely. The Woodsville area is not a direct route to Bangor from Keye's town in NY. One thought---supposedly he liked to commit his crimes far away from where he lived, so that he would not be connected to the crime. Woodsville is located between Bangor and Keye's property in NY. I can see him hopping off the freeway into a village area to see what he could find. Maybe he came upon Maura and asked her if she needed a lift. He was a fairly good looking young man. I can see him charmimg Maura into his car, even if Maura had misgivings about accepting a ride from strangers. I think she was in a desperate situation and may have thrown caution to the wind. There is evidence that she could have accepted a ride. Although, it isn't conclusive. When dogs followed her scent, it ended about 300 yards (or feet?) up the road. This implies she may have entered a car. There are questions on whether the dogs were accurate though. The glove used for the scent tracking was new and not worn often by Maura. Also, a lot of time went by before the dogs were used to track her scent.

I think Keyes was losing control of his addiction to murder, which is why he started to commit crimes closer to where he resided (Alaska), instead of far from his home.

 

[gnomony]

For those of you who have expressed interest in James Renner's motivation:

http://jamesrenner.com/?p=500

Wow!

 

[Little Jedi]

For those of you who have expressed interest in James Renner's motivation:

http://jamesrenner.com/?p=500

Wow!

:what:
OMG !
WOW

 

[McSpy]

For those of you who have expressed interest in James Renner's motivation:

http://jamesrenner.com/?p=500

Wow!

I'm so glad it is now easier to put these kind of guys (his grandfather) in prison. Unfortunately, in his aunts' case the statute of limitations applied. Nowadays, victims can come forward and people will listen.

 

[Jerri Blank]

there truly is no punishment too severe for people who destroy the innocence of children.

i am glad that james was given a talent to write, so that he can tell what is sadly not a terrible uncommon story. maybe some of his work on maura's case is sensationalized as others have said in these threads, but if it gets her name and story out there and leads to justice and peace for the murrays, then his talent will be well here as well..

 

[neverletgo]

:bump:

Bumping for Maura and her loved ones. :beats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvH41yylgq8

 

[Galbin]

For those of you who have expressed interest in James Renner's motivation:

http://jamesrenner.com/?p=500

Wow!

Life is so ugly sometimes.

 

[taraose]

There seems to be a fine line between the theories, rumors and the actual facts. I've read so many things & I'm not sure how much of it is confirmed. I need someone who knows a lot about this case to please clear some things up for me. I'm not interested in theories.

1.) Has it been confirmed that MM previously committed Credit Card Fraud? (other than the time at UMass)

2.) Was MM was expelled from West Point? (-I've read this multiple times, I'm just not sure if it's a fact)

3.) Has anyone confirmed why the phone call before she disappeared made her upset or who it was from?

4.) Was the school punishing MM for the Credit Card fraud? Is there anyway we could contact the school to confirm what her student status was? (again, I have ready this many times..I just want to know if it is a known fact)

5.) What was MM's demeanor the night of the party? (Before the accident with her dad's car)

6.) Did MM get in trouble at all the night of the accident (with her dad's new car)? Did she get a ticket or anything like that? If so, what were the stipulations of the supposed three month probation she was on regarding the credit card theft? Would a traffic offense effect that?

7.) What were MM's grades like right before her disappearance?

8.) What would be actual reason(s) for stuffing a rag in the muffler? Is this presumed to happen before her trip or after the (2nd) accident? If presumed the rag was in the muffler before the accident, could it have somehow have caused the accident?

9.) Is it an actual fact that MM packed up her entire dorm room (pictures off the wall, ect) before she left? If so, where did she store this stuff? Was it in her car? Trunk?

10.) Did she have a backpack with her when she got out of the car?

11.) Did she take a bottle of alcohol with her when she got out of the car?

12.) How far away is the closest train station/bus stop from the accident?



** I'm just trying to distinguish between facts and things I've read. There is soo much in this case that is only tentatively known. All help to clear things up is soo very appreciated!

 

[scoops]

There seems to be a fine line between the theories, rumors and the actual facts. I've read so many things & I'm not sure how much of it is confirmed. I need someone who knows a lot about this case to please clear some things up for me. I'm not interested in theories.

I will give it a go.



1.) Has it been confirmed that MM previously committed Credit Card Fraud? (other than the time at UMass) ----------No. Just the one instance is all that is known as factual as of now.

2.) Was MM was expelled from West Point? (-I've read this multiple times, I'm just not sure if it's a fact) ----------No proof of that. She could've been, could've made the decision to leave herself. West Point will likely never release that info to where the public will know the truth.

3.) Has anyone confirmed why the phone call before she disappeared made her upset or who it was from? ------- no. No phone call can be linked to her being upset. Just tons of speculation.

4.) Was the school punishing MM for the Credit Card fraud? Is there anyway we could contact the school to confirm what her student status was? (again, I have ready this many times..I just want to know if it is a known fact)----Not sure on this one.

5.) What was MM's demeanor the night of the party? (Before the accident with her dad's car)------------ hard to get a read on this one. the Friend who was hosting the party was passed out. Other friends have relayed through media that maura was insistent on returning her father's car back to his hotel seven miles away that night, which they thought was odd. And they did try and convince her to wait until morning. the party was at the same dorm maura lived in, just a few floors up.

6.) Did MM get in trouble at all the night of the accident (with her dad's new car)? Did she get a ticket or anything like that? If so, what were the stipulations of the supposed three month probation she was on regarding the credit card theft? Would a traffic offense effect that? --------No. Maura was not ticketed or cited. the police report did note driver inattention as the cause of the accident, but no punishment.

7.) What were MM's grades like right before her disappearance? --------All accounts I have heard was that she was doing just fine academically.

8.) What would be actual reason(s) for stuffing a rag in the muffler? Is this presumed to happen before her trip or after the (2nd) accident? If presumed the rag was in the muffler before the accident, could it have somehow have caused the accident? -------------No one has a clue about the rag, all speculation. Depending upon whom you ask, you will likely hear different reasons. Police through statements they have made, (do at least note a possible suicide attempt). But no actual proof one way or the other and police are using info given to them early on by fred murray.

9.) Is it an actual fact that MM packed up her entire dorm room (pictures off the wall, ect) before she left? If so, where did she store this stuff? Was it in her car? Trunk? ----------- No fact just more speculation and interpretation. Investigators, fellow nursing student and fellow dorm dweller (who was brought to maura's room to look at it) believe she was likely packed to move out for good. Family belives its possible she hadn't unpacked from the winter break. Maura didn't bring very much with her on her impromptu trip to NH. She had at best a few days of clothes (mostly sweats, sweater and running gear and nothing else). All the rest was packed up in her dorm and left behind.

10.) Did she have a backpack with her when she got out of the car? ===== No proof. But famlily knows she owned a backpack and it can't be accounted for.

11.) Did she take a bottle of alcohol with her when she got out of the car? ---- No proof. But a recepit for liquor was recovered from her car and bottle of alcohol that was on receipt was not found in her car, so it is assumed she took it with her.

12.) How far away is the closest train station/bus stop from the accident? ---- Have to talk to someone more local than me. Family did look into that, I believe they were looking around woodstock area.

 

[telemag]

Maura was obviously making a planned getaway unless the email she sent the school and the calls she made about getting a room aren't true. People keep saying that she told no one, but she did. Also, by sending the school that email it shows tha she intended to be gone long enough to miss some classes. How many times have any of us at Maura's age just got into a car and planned on taking a planned trip with no intentions of meeting anyone? I'm sure it happens, but IMO I'm willing to bet that she was meeting someone and that it was a guy. If everyone thought that Maura was dating Billy then she would IMO be very careful as to who she told and even more so if that man was possibly married. As far as the stuffed animal from Billy that could have been in her car for a long time. Unless someone can tell me that they know for sure she had it in her room the day she left.

I think not too many options as far as what happened to Maura. Either she froze to death and somehow no one has ever seen her body and I don't think this likely. I can't see someone walking too far into the woods at night. Second she did take a ride from someone and was murdered. If she was seen by Fournier (sp?) the it tells me that she was staying close to the road and that she wasn't looking for a ride since he mentioned that she ran when she saw his car approach.

One thing that I have not heard mentioned before and I think that may be likely is that Maura did finally meet up with whom ever she was planning on meeting and something bad happened between the two and she was murdered either on purpose or accidentally. Think about it, what better chance is someone going to have to kill someone when not a soul knows where you are? The reasons don't matter as much as the possibility.

 

[OldSteve]

Snipped:

How many times have any of us at Maura's age just got into a car and planned on taking a planned trip with no intentions of meeting anyone?

I was around her age, but it was back in the 1960's, and it's exactly what I did. Almost got thrown out of school as a result. Lucky for me nothing bad happened.