NJ NJ - David Anderson, 31, New Hope, 2 Oct 2000

[RileyRN]

so does anyone know who can request autopsy records? i know we discussed this in SM thread, but I can't recall. I wonder if we could get some media interest in this to request them?

formerwildcat- If DA had grass in clenched hands, he could not have died of drowning IMO. When someone falls into water, I can totally see grabbing grass or anything as one is slipping in. However, once in the water, I would think the survival instinct kicks in and hands would be flailing in an attempt to not drown. In that case, I doubt grass would be left in hands and they would no longer be clenched.
Makes me kind of wonder if he was dead prior to going into the water. Would you agree?
This is why access to the autopsy report would be the first item of importance to me.

Phoenix, I read the Forensics of Drowning article on the Killing Killer's website. In the article, I believe they said that one would expect to see clumps of grass or debris in the hands of someone who had drowned and that the absence of this would signal that they had died prior to going in the water. However, it also said that in cases of true drowning that the person would always be found face down, as fluids accumulate in the abdomen and that even if the person was knocked about (from a boat or some other disturbance) the body would return to the face down position due to the accumulate fluids. When I posted that before, someone said that maybe because the water where DA was found was shallow, it had something to do with him being found face up.

Anyway, that is in interesting article.

 

[Phoenixrising]

Phoenix, I read the Forensics of Drowning article on the Killing Killer's website. In the article, I believe they said that one would expect to see clumps of grass or debris in the hands of someone who had drowned and that the absence of this would signal that they had died prior to going in the water. However, it also said that in cases of true drowning that the person would always be found face down, as fluids accumulate in the abdomen and that even if the person was knocked about (from a boat or some other disturbance) the body would return to the face down position due to the accumulate fluids. When I posted that before, someone said that maybe because the water where DA was found was shallow, it had something to do with him being found face up.

Anyway, that is in interesting article.

Interesting! Thanks! I will read that article about the grass. I would have thought the opposite.

 

[Phoenixrising]

Cadaveric spasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Interesting!
RileyRN- thanks for that insight, I was totally wrong on my assumption.

Formerwildcat- the theories of a jilted lover as written in articles about Dave's death..was there evidence/reason/history of a jilted lover in his life? Had he been seeing anyone or recently broken off a relationship?

 

[RileyRN]

[QUOTE=Phoenixrising;9151499]Interesting! Thanks! I will read that article about the grass. I would have thought the opposite.[/QUOTE]

BBM: Phoenix, me too, I would have thought the opposite as well.

 

[formerwildcat]

the "lover"...well..afterwards we were informed there may have been..we were shocked and surprised but of course,couldn't ask david. there was also "rumor" of 2 men confessing to a 3rd. but this is alleged..the 2 disappeared,apparently back to their country afterward. i asked the local police, numerous times...always get the same answer. accident.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

thanks...as i recall..the autopsy wasn't made public. we assume he fell in the canal and went over the falls..although,we aren't sure. we went to the spot numerous times,and we don't get it.w threw stuff in to see where it would go..etc.we aren't even sure he was in there for the weekend.how could no one have noticed over a warm july weekend at the falls?.we were told he had a bump on the top of his head and his hands were clenched with grass inside.we were also told he was aware he was drowning.the umbrella was never found. a few friends id'd him from a photo of the body. there is always a bridge cop on duty..

This has been something that bothered me all along. It is july, The place is packed with people walking and eating and hanging out and no one, NO ONE sees his body there??

I have read the umbrella was never found. Also something that bothers me. Have you talked to the people who ID'd him? Did he look like he had been dead for 4 days in the water in July? Because to be honest, That would not have been pretty.

 

[formerwildcat]

they will never be the same..the only way they recognized him was by his shirt...as far as the umbrella..it was a beautiful busy weekend in new hope/lambertville..im sure someone could've picked up the umbrella..they also said the falls may have held his body under..that seems unlikely..but i dont know

 

[RileyRN]

I have always found it odd that DA would want to go all the way back to John and Peter's for his umbrella. Since the folks at John and Peters were friends of his, couldn't he have just called and had them look for it and keep it?

 

[curioser]

I have always found it odd that DA would want to go all the way back to John and Peter's for his umbrella. Since the folks at John and Peters were friends of his, couldn't he have just called and had them look for it and keep it?

He went back for it because it was raining, or at least drizzling.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

He went back for it because it was raining, or at least drizzling.

And this is something that always stuck with me.. How drunk could he be that he remembered the umbrella.. Do you know how many umbrellas I have lost or forgot stone sober???

 

[Phoenixrising]

And this is something that always stuck with me.. How drunk could he be that he remembered the umbrella.. Do you know how many umbrellas I have lost or forgot stone sober???

How far had he gotten before he went back for umbrella? If just a block or so, I can see coming back for it, but not if he was already over the bridge or anything.

Would love to see this on a map and timeline to narrow down. Bridgemaster saw him, what direction did he go? Was there survellance video back then?

 

[formerwildcat]

ya,he went back for it fairly quickly..the bridge masters rarely pay much attention...if he saw david walk by..that was most likely all he saw..was him umbrella up or down?? thatd be interesting...how many people walked by with him or after??

 

[Bezam]

formerwildcat,
I was hoping that you could clear something up for me. I have read two different articles that place David either in the spillway or in Swan creek. Is not the spillway the area right under the falls behind the old ACME? Isn't Swan Creek a little distance from there? Which is correct?

Also, I see that now there is a floating yellow boom in the area before the falls. I would imagine that would prevent a large object from going over the falls there but then again, maybe not if it was underwater? I guess I am just wondering if there was anything like that there at that time? Do you think that it could have made sense that David could have went in somewhere around where they think Sarah did (N. Coryell) and floated south until going over the falls causing the facial lacerations and beat-up look? Perhaps this could be why he was face-up instead of the way a drowning victim "should" be which is face down.
Curious to hear your thoughts about this.

 

[Bezam]

the "lover"...well..afterwards we were informed there may have been..we were shocked and surprised but of course,couldn't ask david. there was also "rumor" of 2 men confessing to a 3rd. but this is alleged..the 2 disappeared,apparently back to their country afterward. i asked the local police, numerous times...always get the same answer. accident.

Just to clarify this, by lover should I assume you mean a male lover? Is this why this info would have been a surprise to his friends? Is the rumor of 2 men confessing related to this "lover" rumor or are this two separate things altogether?

If you don't mind saying, what country did the 2 supposedly disappear to?

As strongly as you feel that this was not an accident with David, do you believe the same to be true about Sarah? Just so strange and sad that this could happen twice.

 

[formerwildcat]

no..the "lover" was a woman.and not necessarily a well liked one.. the 2 men allegedly confessing..were from mexico. again..rumors perhaps..david was found in swan creek which is where the canal flows into..they all meet up i believe before heading into the delaware.acme parking lot area...im not sure the tree is still there but if you are standing on that bridge..he was found against the tree to the left. no ,there was never any thing there to stop objects that i can ever remember..as far as we know..david was heading down the towpath to the cut through by the acme. the bank is sloped and grassy..not straight..it is possible the lacerations came from going over the falls and being held down for 2 days...i don't believe davids was an accident...it is possible sarahs was..but i am not 100%..

 

[Bezam]

no..the "lover" was a woman.and not necessarily a well liked one.. the 2 men allegedly confessing..were from mexico. again..rumors perhaps..david was found in swan creek which is where the canal flows into..they all meet up i believe before heading into the delaware.acme parking lot area...im not sure the tree is still there but if you are standing on that bridge..he was found against the tree to the left. no ,there was never any thing there to stop objects that i can ever remember..as far as we know..david was heading down the towpath to the cut through by the acme. the bank is sloped and grassy..not straight..it is possible the lacerations came from going over the falls and being held down for 2 days...i don't believe davids was an accident...it is possible sarahs was..but i am not 100%..

Thank you. Very good info here. Unfortunately I am hopelessly confused regarding the Spillway vs Swan Creek. I have been there, by the falls. The falls pour into the spillway, correct? Then there was a small "stream" (for lack of a better word) that comes out of a round concrete sewer type tunnel. that is closer to the ACME. I never saw a creek. Am I at the wrong place? This place is very close to where Sarah was found. I know there is another spillway not too far away,just a little more south. It is just past a playground. There is a pond there I believe. It was frozen at the time and kids were ice skating on it. Is this the place? Anyone who can help me figure this out, I would appreciate it!
One more thing regarding Swan Creek I believe it was said that TG was found in it close to the pumping station. Any idea where that is?

 

[Bezam]

no..the "lover" was a woman.and not necessarily a well liked one.. the 2 men allegedly confessing..were from mexico. again..rumors perhaps..david was found in swan creek which is where the canal flows into..they all meet up i believe before heading into the delaware.acme parking lot area...im not sure the tree is still there but if you are standing on that bridge..he was found against the tree to the left. no ,there was never any thing there to stop objects that i can ever remember..as far as we know..david was heading down the towpath to the cut through by the acme. the bank is sloped and grassy..not straight..it is possible the lacerations came from going over the falls and being held down for 2 days...i don't believe davids was an accident...it is possible sarahs was..but i am not 100%..

Do you know if this disliked woman is still in the area?

Do you know what ever happened to the 3rd man that the 2 men confessed too (supposedly). Do you know what it was they told him they did? Do you think that it was intentional murder or that they just ganged up on him and then things went south? I know it was said that David could not swim so maybe if he fell into the water during an altercation he could have drown not being able to get out....What do you think happened?

 

[formerwildcat]

as far as i know..that is swan creek(the small stream)that goes into that spillway ,in the acme parking lot and the canal..all three meet there.when they said david was in swan creek..they meant right there.by acme. i believe tim was found further up in swan creek.(another weird drowning).yes,as far as i know,she is still around. i don't know what happened to that 3rd man. i had heard he told the police,but i assume he didn't. i don't know if it was intentional. it may have been an accident,a scuffle,a pissed off "push"..we have been trying to figure it out for years.

 

[Bezam]

FWC,

I was wondering you could tell us about the band David played in. I believe I have read that he had a band called abe. But then it also appears that he played for the band Brother Eye which to this day still performs. Do you know which band he was in at the time of his death? Also, was he actually a full member of BE or just an occasional guest? Does BE performs locally pretty frequently? I have read that SM was at Triumph the night she disappeared to see that very band. If that is true, Wow! What a coincidence!

 

[Bezam]

FWC,

I was also wondering about Tim Groff. At the time of his death, how did David's friends react? I imagine that must have dredged up so bad memories. Did people locally think that this drowning could also be foul-play? Do you know if there was any gossip tied to this mysterious drowning as well? I realize that there was flooding that night but it still seems like a mystery how he ended up in Swan creek also.