AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #4

[jjenny]

Those buildings are park maintenance buildings, no one lives there.

Could somebody have been working there with their child in tow?

 

[jjenny]

I believe that people could see the side of the buildings that face the playground and the BB courts but the red van was assumed to have been BEHIND the buildings, hidden (not said by LE though). So how could the eyewitness have the detail that he had as to the van, where he put her without being behind the buildings too>

How do we know the child wasn't behind the buildings? I am assuming police at least verified the child could have seen what he supposedly saw.

 

[MsBetsy]

From what has been reported, mother's view of swings was obstructed by a small hill.

Yeah, it looks like there are some trees or bushes there too, depending on where exactly Dulce was. Imo

 

[Rosiebones]

How do we know the child wasn't behind the buildings? I am assuming police at least verified the child could have seen what he supposedly saw.

That is the point I am hung up on, LE has never said publicly that the red van was behind the buildings or even in the park. This leads me to think that if the young Hispanic man exists and the red van exists that she may have been walked out of the park and put into the van outside the park.

 

[jjenny]

That is the point I am hung up on, LE has never said publicly that the red van was behind the buildings or even in the park. This leads me to think that if the young Hispanic man exists and the red van exists that she may have been walked out of the park and put into the van outside the park.

Well, that's a big IF, isn't it?

 

[Rosiebones]

Well, that's a big IF, isn't it?

Yep, two big ifs.
MOO

 

[Beekarina]

I dunno, but if she is still in the park, they need to bring cadaver dogs.

I agree. I can see wanting to do *something* though. Sitting around hoping for news would feel even worse,,I ghjnk.

 

[MsBetsy]

I keep thinking about possibly 2 bball games going on while Mom was in the car. I'm not convinced Mom saw anything and perhaps that is why the 911 call is all heresay. All Mom can verify is that Dulce was gone from where she was supposed to be on the playground. Beyond this Mom had no info.

If you had both courts in action with players and possibly people hanging around the perimeter of the 2 courts, would mom or her sister have been able to see anything of the 2 children?

Also, as others here have asked about 2 children holding ice creams, I wonder if the 2 small children would have gone to the swings with their ice creams or would they possible have stopped mid way or possibly a bench or sat on the ground to finish the ice creams? Swinging with ice cream would be tricky for a small child IMO and I even wonder if the 3 yo could have gotten up on the swing without his sisters help and ditto for getting out?

My question is, did the 2 children make it to the swings or were they closer to Mom and sister in car than originally thought or were they further away from Mom near the 2 DPW white sheds?

We heard about someone possibly motioning Dulce in the area near the 2 DPW white shed? Could the children have gone in that direction towards the sheds to eat their ice creams?

Yeah, I don't think the mom saw them again until she discovered the 3 year old crying. She may have caught sight of them for a moment, but for the most part it sounds like she did not see them on the swings. I'm assuming it was between 3 and ten minutes that she was not watching, as both have been reported. She probably wasn't watching the time so it is likely an approximate amount of time.

I think the kids were further from where the mom was parked and closer to the storage buildings when Dulce was lured away.
If the man was between the buildings, that might explain why not many people saw them. Imo

 

[283]

@flowoftime @SeattleStew

Not sure if this link is helpful ?

Here's what we know about the Dulce Maria Alavez case

 

[MimosaMornings]

I’m still scratching my head about the usual “sitting in car” out of sight. I’m not a helicopter mom but no way with a 3 and 5 year old. Heck you can play on your phone, FaceTime and pay bills while you sit on a bench right at the playground.
Read a book. Sip a drink. Enjoy being around your children. Wipe their messy ice cream hands and mouth lol.

 

[10ofRods]

I’m still scratching my head about the usual “sitting in car” out of sight. I’m not a helicopter mom but no way with a 3 and 5 year old. Heck you can play on your phone, FaceTime and pay bills while you sit on a bench right at the playground.
Read a book. Sip a drink. Enjoy being around your children. Wipe their messy ice cream hands and mouth lol.

Being on the phone while the kids are in a park is not safe, either. Several attempted abductions of children (and at least one successful one) where caretaker was distracted on the phone.

I can't even imagine taking the grandkids to a park and reading a book or being on the phone. Listening to music (with one earbud) while keeping eyes on kid (or a book on tape), yes. But things happen so quickly. Opportunistic abductors are totally keyed into who is not paying attention to the kids.

Sitting in a car out of sight (if that's true) is of course whole new levels of caretaker incompetence (or worse). Not real familiar with this case, but something is deeply off here.

 

[jjenny]

A determined perp can abduct the child even with the parent present. The little girl in TX was recently abducted while she was walking with her mother, mother physically couldn't stop the abduction, because obviously a man (perp) is stronger than a woman. Thankfully that little girl was recovered alive.

 

[Indigator]

There are many times children are out of parents sight even if the parents don’t notice. Just seconds or minutes but that’s why these people are called predators. No one had the right to touch a child, no matter the circumstances. All eyes forward to finding this child.

 

[Raptors001]

The thing about this case is she disappeared ! It is a sinister disappearance, something went seriously wrong

 

[Deleted member 238128]

Yeah, I don't think the mom saw them again until she discovered the 3 year old crying. She may have caught sight of them for a moment, but for the most part it sounds like she did not see them on the swings. I'm assuming it was between 3 and ten minutes that she was not watching, as both have been reported. She probably wasn't watching the time so it is likely an approximate amount of time.

I think the kids were further from where the mom was parked and closer to the storage buildings when Dulce was lured away.
If the man was between the buildings, that might explain why not many people saw them. Imo

I so wish that a local could park a car where Dulcés mom was (not sure that we know the exact spot though?)and take photos of which parts of the playground can be seen from that aspect. And on the flipside, stand at various points in the playground and photograph a car parked where Dulcé’s mom was, so that we can see which view points would allow an abductor to keep an eye on the car.

 

[Cool Cats]

A determined perp can abduct the child even with the parent present. The little girl in TX was recently abducted while she was walking with her mother, mother physically couldn't stop the abduction, because obviously a man (perp) is stronger than a woman. Thankfully that little girl was recovered alive.

Was asking for link but found it....

 

[MsBetsy]

I so wish that a local could park a car where Dulcés mom was (not sure that we know the exact spot though?)and take photos of which parts of the playground can be seen from that aspect. And on the flipside, stand at various points in the playground and photograph a car parked where Dulcé’s mom was, so that we can see which view points would allow an abductor to keep an eye on the car.

Yes, I think that's what flowoftime was planning to to.

Even if it is an approximate location to where her car was parked it would be helpful to get an idea of where the abductor may have parked hidden from view.

Especially if we can see the secluded area behind the buildings and to the side where Burt Street is.
Another poster said there were a few different ways out of the park.

I wonder if he could have driven Dulce to another isolated area of the park. I think I read it's about 1000 acres. It's possible that she is there somewhere nearby to where she was abducted.
I hope they find something when they do the next search. Imo

 

[cass523]

BRIDGETON, New Jersey (WPVI) -- The reward for information leading to the return of 5-year-old Dulce Maria Alavez has jumped to $40,000.

Investigators have also tracked down local sex offenders to account for their whereabouts at the time Dulce went missing, McRae said.

McRae said investigators have checked out more than 500 vehicles so far in this investigation.

Reward grows to $40K in search for Dulce Maria Alavez

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Not only that, but I think Dulce Maria lives with her grandparents, and if so her clothes wouldn't be picked out to wear by her mom every morning.

Yes, well from what I understand, Dulce doesn't live with her mom so its her grandma who would wash and pick out her clothes if so.

The thought was that they went home and changed from school uniforms. I don’t know who picked up s d took them home to change, but have assumed it was Noema. Although even if true, I still do t blame her for not knowing what she had on.

WELCOME @flowoftime! Thanks for joining as this search needs all the eyes and brains out there to find Dulce!

So glad you are local!

Many questions here related to the view that Mom might have had of the 2 children playing on the swings (or near the swings I guess as we don't really know where the 2 children were exactly). @otto as always has done some brilliant maps so take a look at them and where he placed the Mom car and see what you think she might have been able to see.

The 911 call IMO seemed to be information Mom got from other people near/on basketball court or the play area rather than what Mom or her sister might have seen.

Do you think its possible that Mom saw nothing from her car and at the time she made the 911 call all she knew is that Dulce and her brother had left her car, headed toward the swings and then when she went to go find them that she couldn't find Dulce?

Did Mom ever see the 2 children on the swings or could Mom say based on where the car was parked where exactly the children were?

Did the children stop midway to the swings to finish their ice creams?

Does it seem possible to you that of all the people on the Bball courts that nobody would observe a child running toward the 2 DPW sheds or even if a person/persons might have been chasing her or even grabbed her?

Is it possible that people from the Bball courts that might have been undocumented would have 'melted away' once they realised that LE was on the way and so they might have critical info but be too scared to come forward?

So many questions as it seems like poor Dulce simply "vanished into thin air"!

MOO

My thoughts on the b-ball courts. I’ve scoured many google images and Instagram images of these courts and people normally playing on them. Most do not look to be of Hispanic decent, but I assume it’s possible some illegal immigrants were there and might not want to talk.

 

[afitzy]

The thought was that they went home and changed from school uniforms. I don’t know who picked up s d took them home to change, but have assumed it was Noema. Although even if true, I still do t blame her for not knowing what she had on.


My thoughts on the b-ball courts. I’ve scoured many google images and Instagram images of these courts and people normally playing on them. Most do not look to be of Hispanic decent, but I assume it’s possible some illegal immigrants were there and might not want to talk.

@flowoftime, If one theory is that another vehicle was possibly parked close to the 2 white buildings then as @otto mentioned the other night, it might make retrace the path that a vehicle might have used to leave the park via the service access road. It looks like there is some kind of gate blocking the entrance to the service area but it would be good to know if its actually locked somehow or is it something where the gates can simply be pushed open and a vehicle might drive through easily. It might not be noticeable either if the vehicle were a truck or looked like a tradespersons vehicle as people might just assume they were in the area to work.