AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #2

[otto]

What a sorry world we live in when we have to literally be within 10 feet of our children at all times.

I think I need a Websleuths break. At least from the child cases. My heart hurts.

Unattended 3 and 5 year old children is not really the norm. It's so easy for a child to be injured at a playground from falls, equipment (e.g.: swing) hitting them when they're not looking, mis-calculations on a slide, and so on.

 

[otto]

Sorry. Many that for OP. who mentioned the ex pedophiles asking around about their kids.

I agree: once a pedophile, always a pedophile, although I did read about a project in the UK where pedophiles have access to therapy and support to prevent re-offending.

 

[SuperTmo]

I have not read one report that states any other children were on the playground. Or that any other parents were in the area. Doesn't mean it's not the case, and perhaps some of the witnesses are from the playground and are adults who were there with their kids.

My thought is if there were more people around in the exact area, it would not have been so easy for Dulce to be taken. JMO

This was my understanding as well. The playground was empty besides them, and the witnesses playing basketball weren’t really that close. I can’t imagine they saw much of anything of value since they were focused on their game. Moo, and I may be wrong.

 

[MsBetsy]

Language skills vary so much at that age. My daughter could easily carry on a conversation with completely clear speech, but her half sister is almost 4 and only her parents can understand her. If the boy knew the person who took Dulce, it’s possible he thought he was being left out by not being taken too.

Yes, of course, it's possible that someone known to the family has taken her, and might have even known she was going to be there. Imo

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

This was my understanding as well. The playground was empty besides them, and the witnesses playing basketball weren’t really that close. I can’t imagine they saw much of anything of value since they were focused on their game. Moo, and I may be wrong.

Hmmmm. If the witness wasn't real close how could they see the acne?????? Give such a vivid discription??????

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I was just thinking the same thing. Just two threads in, hopefully posters will have chance to get up to speed by reading the first thread

ETA to avoid repetition and help with focus

Point goes to HKP. TY.

 

[Rosiebones]

Google Maps
This a picture of Jeddy's Pond which is very close to where she went missing and there has been no mention of it being searched by divers or volunteers.
Also, where are the bathrooms for this park area?

 

[Rosiebones]

Hmmmm. If the witness wasn't real close how could they see the acne?????? Give such a vivid discription??????

I wonder if they were describing bad acne scars which could be on a person of almost any age, or do they mean active, red acne sores which is more indicative of a younger, teen to young adult.

 

[SuperTmo]

Another thought...the mom asked the 3 year old brother which way Dulce went. She never was quoted as having asked anyone else on the playground. Myself - I would have immediately asked any adult who was there and any other child as well. She then called her family to bring a dog to help find Dulce. Nothing about asking people on the spot helping in the search.

Yes and this stood out to me as weird. Did any witnesses see the family searching? Hear them calling for her? There is literally no way I would wait more than about 5 minutes to call 911 if I could not find my kid.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

It took just one incident for the town to go quiet, she said, her demeanor transforming to one of disappointment.

“Bridgeton is never in the headlines. Now, this is all people know," Alicea said.

“It’s so close to home, you know. We have to be really careful now. I never thought someone would be watching my child, but who knows what predators are lurking around?” she said.

Dulce, whose name translates to ‘sweet’ from Spanish, was last seen on surveillance buying ice cream at a corner store Monday afternoon with her 3-year-old brother, 8-year-old relative and mother, Noema Alavez Perez, who later took the kids to Bridgeton City Park.

Officials did not provide any update Saturday. Mayor Albert Kelly said that in a way, no news is good news.

One of the oldest communities in the state, Bridgeton evolved into an industrial powerhouse following the Civil War. It was once home to major glass, sewing and other manufacturing factories.

But those textile jobs left in the 1970s, forcing the city into an economic drought, Kelly said. Victorian homes emptied out and the middle class neighborhoods with side-by-side double homes progressively worsened.

Today, the city is largely agricultural based — Cumberland County calls itself the “Garden Spot of the Garden State” — and home to some of the largest frozen food operations in the state. The opportunity for agricultural employment attracted a largely Latino population, which still calls the city home today, he said.

Comprised of mostly Mexican and Guatemalan immigrants, Spanish is a primary language in the city and schools, Kelly added.

Crime in the city has been decreasing, but still ranked as a top ten city for violence in 2017.

“Look, we know there’s crime here. There’s gangs and fights. We kind of expect that,” Alicea said. “But stealing someone’s kid? That never happens here. Never happens.”

The mayor called this crime an anomaly.
Close-knit community left in fear as mystery surrounds disappearance of 5-year-old Dulce Maria Alavez

 

[otto]

Hmmmm. If the witness wasn't real close how could they see the acne?????? Give such a vivid discription??????

That detail, along with all the colorful clothing, seems out of step with descriptions that are normally provided. It's almost like too much information. If the suspect was at the playground, waiting for an opportunity to abduct at child, he would have avoided people.

I suppose someone might have been parked near the red van when it left the park.

 

[SuperTmo]

I'm wondering the same thing about the witness. All I could find was that "a witness" described the suspect. The description seems so detailed, with specific information about facial skin. How would someone know that without having a conversation with, or being within a few feet of, the suspect?

Do most young Hispanic men in the area dress like that? I would think that what he was wearing together with his red van would trigger a lot of tips, yet he has not been located. Does the suspect not have friends in the area who would immediately know him based on that description?

She was abducted within 3 minutes of arriving at the park.

"They were out of sight for less than three minutes when Manuel ran back, crying and pointing to a spot near park buildings, she said." (link)
​

That suggests that the suspect was at the swings waiting at the park for an unaccompanied child to arrive. The children ran to the playground, he immediately took Dulce and left, and the 3 year old child ran straight back to the car.

View attachment 205769

We don’t know how long she was at the park before she went missing. As far as we know, we know roughly when she got there and when the cops were called. We don’t know that she was gone for 3 minutes or 30 minutes before the mom was informed.

All we know is what the mom told us, and if she was worried she would get in trouble for letting them play alone maybe she omitted some details on how long she was not supervising them. We don’t know that it was true.

 

[MsMarple]

Google Maps
This a picture of Jeddy's Pond which is very close to where she went missing and there has been no mention of it being searched by divers or volunteers.
Also, where are the bathrooms for this park area?

Police have repeatedly scanned the park by ground, air and water this week. The effort has included K-9s, dive teams and the park’s historic “raceway” that carries water from Sunset Lake was drained earlier this week.

It was unclear what prompted the renewed effort to search the park’s wooded areas on Friday. Police and volunteers canvassed the park and adjacent properties extensively in days following Dulce’s disappearance. The search included the use of aircraft and thermal imaging.
Police launch large-scale search of N.J. park where 5-year-old Dulce Alavez went missing

I couldn't find other specific names of water where LE searched but they seem to be on top of things.

 

[MsBetsy]

This was my understanding as well. The playground was empty besides them, and the witnesses playing basketball weren’t really that close. I can’t imagine they saw much of anything of value since they were focused on their game. Moo, and I may be wrong.

LE interviewd three more witnesses who were there, including a child, who were brought back to the location where she was abducted.
This was just yesterday, so it's not known what they saw, or if it provided LE with any new leads. Imo

 

[otto]

We don’t know how long she was at the park before she went missing. As far as we know, we know roughly when she got there and when the cops were called. We don’t know that she was gone for 3 minutes or 30 minutes before the mom was informed.

All we know is what the mom told us, and if she was worried she would get in trouble for letting them play alone maybe she omitted some details on how long she was not supervising them. We don’t know that it was true.

We know the exact time that they were at the ice cream shop, and witnesses described the suspect and his vehicle. That suggests that someone saw the suspect with the child at his red van. 4:20 is the time that has been given as the time of abduction.

Of course, we can imagine that this information is wrong, and speculate that no one really knows anything about the time of abduction.

 

[MsBetsy]

We don’t know how long she was at the park before she went missing. As far as we know, we know roughly when she got there and when the cops were called. We don’t know that she was gone for 3 minutes or 30 minutes before the mom was informed.

All we know is what the mom told us, and if she was worried she would get in trouble for letting them play alone maybe she omitted some details on how long she was not supervising them. We don’t know that it was true.

Apparently it was ten minutes after they were let out of the car that the three year old came back crying. It probably was not much longer than that as he was still eating his ice cream cone when she was abducted.
The time could have also have been verified by the people who were on the courts playing basketball. Imo

 

[unknown402]

This whole case hinges on this description but I am skeptical of it. I want to know

• How many witnesses gave the report?
• When was the description given? Was it at the scene within the hour or many hours or even a day after?
• Were people interviewed together or separate?
• Did the witnesses speak English? If not did the officers speak Spanish?
• What exactly did they witness? Did they witness the ice cream incident? Did they see the 3 year old cry?
• Based on my understanding of the maps, the monster would have had to be parked within eyesight of the park for anyone at the park to see Dulce get into the van? But everyone thinks he snuck her out the back behind the buildings? So who saw her get in the van?

I just woke up I should not already be thinking about this before I have breakfast. I hope today is the day...tomorrow is one week...

 

[Rosiebones]

Smaller children like to lie on their chests across the strap swings so the can use their legs to run forward and the swing back. They are more secure and could hold their ice cream in their hands. They don't bother getting into the basket swings because they can't make them move alone.

 

[SuperTmo]

Yes, of course, it's possible that someone known to the family has taken her, and might have even known she was going to be there. Imo

It’s possible also that the person who took her was someone that the kids knew but the mom had no idea about. I do not think it was someone the family knew of or a relative of the dad. I don’t think that these kids playing alone at the park while
mom waited in the car was a one time thing.

I think this is a fairly common occurrence and whoever the perp is was 1) well aware of this pattern and 2) befriended the kids and essentially groomed them. This boy may have thought the perp was someone fun who played with them and maybe brought treats and genuinely felt he was being left out of some fun.

 

[SuperTmo]

Hmmmm. If the witness wasn't real close how could they see the acne?????? Give such a vivid discription??????

Their description is incredibly vague and not vivid at all. Probably random descriptors they picked out of thin air.