NJ NJ - Mindy Jordan, 46, missing from cruise ship off Atlantic City, 11 May 2008

[SuziQ]

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=2597

(snip)
So how exactly did the surveillance cameras onboard Norwegian Dawn catch 46-year-old Mindy Jordan's tumble overboard? "It's hard to say what kind of footage they'd have," Niemela tells us, "but one possibility is that they could have been filming the lifeboat area or the promenade deck. I suspect if you have a camera filming the promenade deck for example, they could have seen somebody falling down there." Remember, that's not to say that there's a camera catching your every sneeze or smooch on a balcony -- just that the technology exists to see enough to ascertain information in an investigation or emergency.

 

[philamena]

Niemela tells us, "but one possibility is that they could have been filming the lifeboat area or the promenade deck.

Wow, that sounds like a make believe story.
Why would anyone film the lifeboat area while the ship is in a turbulent storm? :banghead:
Maybe they were filming the storm.

 

[chronictonic]

Did you all see the 1 sec clip of the footage? I saw it air tonite, it shows her clearly landing in the water. It does not however show her going over board, or being pushed.
I dont blame her mother for wanting to see the tape, but I dont think it's going to answer anyones questions. It was pretty clear for CCTV type of footage.
CT

 

[philamena]

,
Thanks for the info. I've only been on one cruise...I hated it.
It was one of those party cruises and we had a Nor Eastern come in the day we left. It was terrible. I don't remember cameras but now that you mentioned it, I do remember the drill.

 

[philamena]

Did you all see the 1 sec clip of the footage? I saw it air tonite, it shows her clearly landing in the water. It does not however show her going over board, or being pushed.
I dont blame her mother for wanting to see the tape, but I dont think it's going to answer anyones questions. It was pretty clear for CCTV type of footage.
CT

chronictonic,
What station or news show, aired the tape? TIA

 

[chronictonic]

Hiyas Phil can I call you phil? It was the very end of Greta. It was not even 2 seconds. WAtch very closely. They barely showed it; just the fall into the water, and then Greta says; well you can clearly see there someone landing in the water.....and the splash. Horrible.

I have no idea what to think about this, did she commit suicide? Did he push her over? Or did she just lose her footing and fall over? Highly unlikely, I just dont see that happening. Maybe to a foolish kid, yes. But an adult?

And we will never know what she had "on board" as far as alcohol or drugs...
well maybe from cctv on deck dinner, the bars....maybe....

Very sad case. Their background was troubled, ergo; it troubles me.
What do you think?

 

[Leila]

One thing I caught on Greta's program last night was that there seems to be more than one camera involved. If I understand it correctly, one camera caught her falling into the water, but not her complete fall. Another camera captured Mindy on the balcony. Perhaps there are still more camera shots. But, it appears that these surveillance cameras have a very limited range and the quality of the image leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

OK...to give a scenario of how foul play could have happened. I have given it some thought.

If he was intent on harming her. I did say IF (because I do think it was an accident). Could he have drugged her and placed her precariously over the edge then gone to the next room and waited for her to then fall? Would there be any way to prove it?

 

[angelmom]

Wow, that sounds like a make believe story.
Why would anyone film the lifeboat area while the ship is in a turbulent storm? :banghead:
Maybe they were filming the storm.

Maybe they are fixed cameras on those areas? In case of a situation where they have to actually use the lifeboats, and they want footage of what happened next, if possible. I can see that. Just like I assume the hallway cameras are fixed, not an actual person filming.

OK...to give a scenario of how foul play could have happened. I have given it some thought.

If he was intent on harming her. I did say IF (because I do think it was an accident). Could he have drugged her and placed her precariously over the edge then gone to the next room and waited for her to then fall? Would there be any way to prove it?

That's a long 17 minutes. I think it was an accident too.

I would really like to hear what happened when he beat her. Were they both fighting? Did he sustain injuries? Did he hit her other times? How long ago did that happen?

I know it is inexcusable, but I do think we are assuming this man is a murderer over this particular (and horrific - don't get me wrong) thing that we only know about from her family who, admittedly, hate him.

 

[KOOL LOOK]

OK...to give a scenario of how foul play could have happened. I have given it some thought.

If he was intent on harming her. I did say IF (because I do think it was an accident). Could he have drugged her and placed her precariously over the edge then gone to the next room and waited for her to then fall? Would there be any way to prove it?

Yes, by fingerprints on the railings, balcony, and is he beneficiary of her life insurance policy. Most evreyone that has purchased life insurance has a double indemnity clause. If it's an accidental death, the benefit amount if doubled automatically.

I've always said, if you want to murder someone and get by with it, do it on a boat or mountain cliff. No one can prove the other. Without actual video. Can't be done. It would be nice if her body was found in order to drug test. Geez. Many many have fallen or jumped off ships, the boat crew was alerted immediately, wonder why she didn't surface. Was she unconscious at the time of her fall? Like the earlier psot mentioned?

 

[FlowerChild]

The railings on the balconies are at least 4' high - she would have had to have been laid on top of the railing to fall from there and I don't see how that would be possible. And she would have had to literally be knocked out within a minute of entering the room for him to have put her up there. They know from the hallway video when they went INTO their room and when he left the room alone. Plus, I think NCL has video of her ON the balcony alone - presumably awake and walking - not laid out on the balcony rail passed out. It was almost 20 minutes from the time he left their room before she fell.

The balcony rails are not designed so it is EASY to fall over them - you would have to climb up on a chair to get ONTO/OVER the railing (which I presume is what Mindy did). And as for the weather, the balconies are covered and somewhat protected from the weather. Unless the wind was blowing directly INTO the balcony (not likely) one could still be ON the balcony in rainy, windy weather. Some people LIKE stormy weather and sitting outside in the wind and weather - they find it exciting. Not everyone gets seasick (big cruise ships don't "move" that much - even in storms) or runs indoors the 1st sign of wind and/or rain. Hubby and I LOVE storms and storm watching and have actually taken vacations on the beach to "storm watch". And there are often a BUNCH of people doing the same thing. A cruise wouldn't be any different - in fact I would LOVE to sit out on a ship balcony in a storm, wrapped in a cozy blanket with some hot chocolate and weather-watch. And I don't drink - storm watching is a NATURAL HIGH though.

People do things on a cruise that they would NEVER do in any other situation - it's decadent and liquor and food are non-stop 24-7 all day every day - even when you do the shore activities there is food and drink involved. I have been to Las Vegas many times and a cruise makes Vegas behavior look TAME by comparison. The "what happens in Vegas, stay in Vegas" slogan actually fits a CRUISE much better than it does Las Vegas. It's like you are in a different world when you are on a cruise ship and real life just doesn't apply.

My Opinion

 

[KOOL LOOK]

I've been on the fantasy carnival cruise lines that leaves orlando to the bahamas in 1994. I'm not scared of bad weather and storms either. However I will stay away from lightning flashes.

It's a spiritual thing for me. To watch the Lord calm a raging storm in my very presence when I've prayed it so. Are you certain she would have to have a chair, or other device to crawl up on to reach the top of the railing? Wonder how tall it is on the decks? Did he converse with her prior to her attempt to cross over? Do we know this information?

Could the friends be involved? Especially if there's a life insurance policy. We all know too well, it won't be a first. Actually most accidental deaths on ships and push overs on cliffs more than one was involved. I can think of quiet a few proven murder cases.

 

[FlowerChild]

Yes, by fingerprints on the railings, balcony, and is he beneficiary of her life insurance policy. Most evreyone that has purchased life insurance has a double indemnity clause. If it's an accidental death, the benefit amount if doubled automatically.

I've always said, if you want to murder someone and get by with it, do it on a boat or mountain cliff. No one can prove the other. Without actual video. Can't be done. It would be nice if her body was found in order to drug test. Geez. Many many have fallen or jumped off ships, the boat crew was alerted immediately, wonder why she didn't surface. Was she unconscious at the time of her fall? Like the earlier psot mentioned?

They weren't married and I have heard nothing about Jorge being on ANY insurance policy of hers. She was only 46 and may not have had a DIME of life insurance. If she did I assume her KIDS were the beneficiaries, not her boyfriend.

And when you fall that far, it often knocks you out when you hit the water - if the waves were high she probably drowned within minutes. And cruise ships can't just stop and turn on a dime. They don't stop the whole CRUISE for hours and search for people who fall off the ship - especially at night. There are like a THOUSAND guests on the boat that paid big money for their trip and if the boat stops, they have to refund MONEY to ALL those people. It sounds callous, but the cruise has a set schedule and usually goes on at some point even when someone falls off the boat. The ship was notified that Mindy was overboard and they in turn notified the Coast Guard to search for Mindy in the water - and they searched for HOURS at and near where she went in the water. MOST people that fall as far as Mindy did into the water don't make it - and some bodies are NEVER found. They do have time-stamped video of her hitting the water. They know exactly when (and where) Mindy fell.

My Opinion

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/112-05172008-1535483.html

(snips)
The FBI has concluded its onboard investigation into the apparent death of a South Jersey woman who fell overboard from a cruise ship, but the case remains open, a spokesman for the bureau said yesterday.

Margolin also refuted a statement issued by Norwegian Cruise Lines Thursday night that said the FBI's preliminary findings were consistent with the cruise line's account that Jordan was alone in her stateroom immediately prior to falling overboard and that she fell while trying to climb between adjacent balconies.
“Our investigation is still open and we have not given any type of preliminary assessment,” Margolin said.

 

[SewingDeb]

Very interesting, SuzyQ!

 

[Morag]

...a la writer John Dickson Carr, would present a scenario like this:

Someone on this thread mentioned that the friends were motion sick. Why. then. would the BF go over to hang around with them? It's just possible that he was there, they were both in the head, heaving, he darted next door through the connecting door, did the deed, popped back, stood on the balcony, and within a few minutes, screamed, Oh, No, she fell. just as the heavers re-emerged. When he told them that he reached and tried to help her, he didn't know that the camera showed her falling straight into the water. The perfect alibi- the friends think they have seen him reacting to the fall as they watch...the fall actually happened two minutes earlier...

However, she did have a very sad look in that photo of her with him, so I woudn't rule out suicide.

And PS- I'm pretty sure that the security cameras don't focus onto the private balconies...Most guests treat them as an extension of their stateroom, especially when at sea, and that means, well, you know...some of us sit around in our smalls.

 

[FlowerChild]

The cruise line also released a timeline indicating that Jordan and Caputo dined with another couple on the ship that evening, and that the two couples returned to their adjacent staterooms at 7:28 p.m.
Eight minutes later, Caputo left the room he shared with Jordan and went next door to visit the other couple, according to the cruise line.
“From that moment on, Mindy was alone in her stateroom,” the cruise line said in the statement. “At 7:53 p.m., surveillance cameras from the exterior of the ship capture Mindy falling overboard from her balcony, straight into the water.”

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/112-05152008-1534568.html


They weren't too seasick to go to DINNER. And we still don't know if the rooms had a door between them - certainly seems they didn't since Jorge went into the hall to visit them - not thru an adjoining door.

The article also states a call was made immediately from the other couple's room and the ship launched lifesaving boats etc. Jorge did not delay in calling for help and evidently the other couple can account for his whereabouts when Mindy fell. Jorge was in the room with Mindy for only 8 minutes after they returned from dinner before he went next door (verified). I don't think there is thus far any question of where Jorge was when Mindy fell.

I don't think Mindy fell "over" the railing...I think she was up ON the railing trying to squeeze/slide/step around the outer edge of the partition dividing the balconies. And yeah, she would probably had to have stood on a chair to get high enough to get onto the railing - she was about my height and slender - but she probably thought she could do it easily. With a wet railing and being possibly a little tipsy and the somewhat rough ride it does not seem (to me) a stretch to see how this happened.


My Opinion

 

[angelmom]

Someone on this thread mentioned that the friends were motion sick. Why. then. would the BF go over to hang around with them? It's just possible that he was there, they were both in the head, heaving, he darted next door through the connecting door, did the deed, popped back, stood on the balcony, and within a few minutes, screamed, Oh, No, she fell. just as the heavers re-emerged. When he told them that he reached and tried to help her, he didn't know that the camera showed her falling straight into the water. The perfect alibi- the friends think they have seen him reacting to the fall as they watch...the fall actually happened two minutes earlier...

However, she did have a very sad look in that photo of her with him, so I woudn't rule out suicide.

And PS- I'm pretty sure that the security cameras don't focus onto the private balconies...Most guests treat them as an extension of their stateroom, especially when at sea, and that means, well, you know...some of us sit around in our smalls.

I wonder if that meant motion sick as in physically heaving or motion sick as in "I won't go out on the balcony b/c I don't like the way it makes me feel."

Big difference.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Hiyas Phil can I call you phil? It was the very end of Greta. It was not even 2 seconds. WAtch very closely. They barely showed it; just the fall into the water, and then Greta says; well you can clearly see there someone landing in the water.....and the splash. Horrible.



I wasn't aware they were going to show this footage, I thought the family didn't want it viewed...just showing this woman falling into water states nothing. Its what happened on her balcony that's in question.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Yes, by fingerprints on the railings, balcony, and is he beneficiary of her life insurance policy. Most evreyone that has purchased life insurance has a double indemnity clause. If it's an accidental death, the benefit amount if doubled automatically.

KL, if there is proof of this life insurance policy please, show link. If its true, the FBI has motive.