NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1

[Sunshine 1950]

Mr. TT, you're not the only one who is still learning around here. Here, I've gone and jumped to a conclusion regarding who did it and why. That's not usually something I do. I should know better than that.

Now having just said that, to now, just read that CT was at the scene a few days afterwards does make me think my conclusion was right.

What's a Tx lawman doing at an out of state crime scene where he has zero jurisdiction?????? That guy just sticks out like a sore thumb in this case, and I don't believe in coincidences such as that or how the father of a POI/suspect managed to be the one who discovered the bodies.

Legacy or anyone else, do you know where CT's brother was employed in LE? Was it also Texas or was it in NM?

My hinky meter is blaring, and drowning out other POI's because of CT showing up.

Another thing that sticks out is Linda Lou's sightings. She had so many. I hate to say she had too many sightings, but she sure found it necessary to pay attention to the girls' activities that day and evening. I find that rally strange. Was her boyfriend a good friend of DB's by chance?

I might be wrong here...but....I believe CT's brother was a Texas Ranger maybe...I know he was in Texas...I've been trying to find my source on that. But I do believe he was in Texas.

You might find this interesting: When my husband and I were in Albuguequere (sp?) a Derinda Windham called my son and asked him to let me know that she and Charles Titus wanted to talk with me. My son and his wife received several phone calls wanting to speak to me...anyway...I never talked to her because she was with Charles Titus. THen on another occasion my sister-in-law called and asked me if I knew a Charles Titus...I said...NO...then I told her about him.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I might be wrong here...but....I believe CT's brother was a Texas Ranger maybe...I know he was in Texas...I've been trying to find my source on that. But I do believe he was in Texas.

You might find this interesting: When my husband and I were in Albuguequere (sp?) a Derinda Windham called my son and asked him to let me know that she and Charles Titus wanted to talk with me. My son and his wife received several phone calls wanting to speak to me...anyway...I never talked to her because she was with Charles Titus. THen on another occasion my sister-in-law called and asked me if I knew a Charles Titus...I said...NO...then I told her about him.

Anyway my sister in law said her son recieved a call from the sheriff's dept. here in my home town...Charles Titus called the sheriff's dept. asking the dispatcher if he know where I lived...and the dispatcher said no...put he knew a guy by that last name and he could call him to ask where the lady lived. Well...my nephew told his mom about the call and his mom told him to not tell him anything about me...that was right after I came back from Albuguerque. Windham is with the New Mexico OMI...and she came from the Pecos, Texas area I believe. Titus use to say to me...I have a friend who can help us out with the foresnic stuff...I've always wondered if that could be this Windham lady.
I've never felt comfortable about CT...but I did email him back and forth for several years. Then he got mad at me for saying 'I'm tired of playing games' that he needed to go to the sheriff's dept. in Eddy County and tell what he knew...but he just ended our emails. And that told me alot about this man...if he has nothing to hide...then he needs to state what he does or doesn't know.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I found it interesting after re-reading Estrada's reports of the autopsy done by Dr. Haynes: "there is slight hemorrhage about the hymeneal ring" which leads me to believe that Patty had been virginal and lost her virginity that night as well as her life...the second autopsy stated that "only female DNA was on the bodies, no male semen indicated. Hmmm. Bonnie stated that "it wasn't unusual for D. and his mother to walk around nude and it was a very weird relationship".
I deemed it odd that the eye witness Mr. Bunnell said he was going to his car "as the sun was setting", it's not dark yet when the sun is setting, the timeline doesn't add up, he had to have seen them before 9:00.
About the 38 derringer that was loaned to David by Mr. Glover and he disposed of it immediately upon return of it.....why? Did Glover suspect that the gun had been fired or worried because it was in the hands of D.B.?
Mrs. Davidson (Patty's mother) was at a party and stated that she had a gun in her purse because "she knew her husband had killed Patty". (interview lost)
'Offspring' Joseph Blair willingly gave a DNA blood test for analysis, where is that test result?
Finally, why would Jim Estrada retire in the midst of all his work on getting so close to solving the case? I wonder if he was forced to put in his resignation at such a crucial time in the investigation.
It's all falling into place now, the 3 B's are wicked evil people!

I agreewith you on the 3 B's...
I'm wondering if the DNA tests that were done were what needed to be done. I believe Hurricane said something about a Nuclear DNA test. I don't think they did that type of DNA test on Joesph. Jim Estrada told me he was retiring...but he didn't really say why he decided to retire at that time. I guess I was in shock....

 

[justthinkin]

Sunshine 1950, what is OMI?

 

[BellaBlue]

Office of the Medical Investigator.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Office of the Medical Investigator.

YES, that the one.

 

[Hurricane]

I agreewith you on the 3 B's...

I'm wondering if the DNA tests that were done were what needed to be done. I believe Hurricane said something about a Nuclear DNA test. I don't think they did that type of DNA test on Joesph.

Jim Estrada told me he was retiring...but he didn't really say why he decided to retire at that time. I guess I was in shock...I just couldn't believe he would jump ship on this case...he told me once...I'm going to solve this case...or die trying. I know people sometime make statements they can't keep...but it really hurt me that he didn't and will not help out now. I haven't talked to him in several years. The last time I talked with him...it was about talking to a reporter for a story update...this was after he retired from the ECSO...he said to me....The only people I will talk to is the FBI...
And the FBI will not do anything to help investigate this case. Special Agent Art Gonzales told me that over the phone.

The simplest DNA test to do is the mitochondrial test. Mitochondrial DNA comes from our mothers. Since Joseph was the son of David Blair Joseph's mitochrondial DNA profile would be compared to his mother Bonnie. What they have in common between them then can be eliminated and what would be left would be the DNA from his father David. Those DNA markers could then be compared to the DNA profile worked up from the clothing samples from the girls (Mattie?).

I'm not a DNA expert by any means but that is how I understand it to work.

 

[Hurricane]

Patsy Wheeler was the aunt...and she is dead. City Policeman Silvo Wheeler was Patty's uncle and I believe he is dead, he was a city policeman when the girls were killed. I'm talking with a guy that walked down Church St. with the girls...he will get back with me...then I'll hopefully have a time and where on Church St. they were.

I see where Silvo Wheeler died in 1981. Patsy must be Patsy R. Wheeler who died in League City, TX in 1995? Did they have any children who might be able to shed some light on that day?

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I see where Silvo Wheeler died in 1981. Patsy must be Patsy R. Wheeler who died in League City, TX in 1995? Did they have any children who might be able to shed some light on that day?

I don't know if Wheeler's had any children.
I'll try and find out.

 

[fish1966]

Do some more looking for another Patsy that could have died earlier please. I would still like to know if there is an interview with Betty Jo as to her whereabouts the entire night that the girls went missing

 

[Hurricane]

Mr. TT, you're not the only one who is still learning around here. Here, I've gone and jumped to a conclusion regarding who did it and why. That's not usually something I do. I should know better than that.

Now having just said that, to now, just read that CT was at the scene a few days afterwards does make me think my conclusion was right.

What's a Tx lawman doing at an out of state crime scene where he has zero jurisdiction?????? That guy just sticks out like a sore thumb in this case, and I don't believe in coincidences such as that or how the father of a POI/suspect managed to be the one who discovered the bodies.

Legacy or anyone else, do you know where CT's brother was employed in LE? Was it also Texas or was it in NM?

My hinky meter is blaring, and drowning out other POI's because of CT showing up.

Another thing that sticks out is Linda Lou's sightings. She had so many. I hate to say she had too many sightings, but she sure found it necessary to pay attention to the girls' activities that day and evening.

I find that rally strange. Was her boyfriend a good friend of DB's by chance?

Her many sightings may have been because she lived right outside the beach area and usually watched people as they came and went to the beach. If someone did cruise the beach looking for a possible victim for a couple of days leading up to the 11th then more than likely she was telling the truth. Just a guess. I was curious how old she was. She may still be alive or perhaps her name changed. I haven't been able to find any current info on her. Anyone know?

 

[fish1966]

Where did Silvo and Patsy live in 1961? Was it Pate St.? Now that was a long walk...how did they get to Aunt Patsy's?

 

[fish1966]

Huricane, Assuming the the other girls that she told the police to talk to are the girls that were her age, they would a be around 60 and 61 years old now.

 

[justthinkin]

I am going to say something here in behalf of Mr. TT, whom I don't know, but I do know the caliber of this person's postings over the LAST YEAR here on WebSleuths, and his intuition is amazing.

I see he is leaving this thread, and I interpret that as a big loss. He never posts a whole lot, but what he posts is usually profound.

 

[Hurricane]

Do some more looking for another Patsy that could have died earlier please.

I would still like to know if there is an interview with Betty Jo as to her whereabouts the entire night that the girls went missing

Silvo Wheeler was born in 1928 so I assume Patsy was born five yrs or so either side of that date? For deaths earlier than 1995 for “Patsy Wheeler” anywhere in the US there is only one: DOB 12/11/1884 DOD 11/29/1987 in MO. Patsy R. Wheeler DOB 4/18/1926 DOD 10/24/1995 in TX. Patsy Jean Wheeler DOB 12/21/1922 DOD 3/14/2009. There are only 9 Patsy Wheeler’s total.
Any ideas?

 

[Hurricane]

Huricane, Assuming the the other girls that she told the police to talk to are the girls that were her age, they would a be around 60 and 61 years old now.

Are you saying Roberts would only be early 60's today? Then she was just a kid herself in 1961. No doubt she has a married name today.

 

[fish1966]

I just turned 61 this year and there is a Linda Roberts that I remember a year behind me in school. Everyone involved that was listed as people to to talk to in Linda's testimony was my age. We all went to Eisenhower Jr. High. The only one old by one year was Margaret Warble. On your map that you posted all the pins are in the correct places. Put the Arrowhead on the NE corner of Church and Mesquite facing south.

 

[justthinkin]

Bellablue, welcome to WS!

Are you a former WS lurker or did you follow this case over with the rest of the group from the Topix forum?

 

[justthinkin]

Hurricane, thanks for the map. That's really helpful. I did notice that you have two streets listed as N. Mesquite. I'm guessing one of the two should be labeled as Patty's house?

Since I'm not a local, I'm not sure I understand why the girls would've passed Linda Lou's house. Was this on the way to and from the Beach, and is the Beach on the map you've provided?

Thanks in advance.

 

[justthinkin]

fish1966, me too on the age thing. Are you a Pisces? Just wondering about the fishy part. I am a proud fish myself, you see.