NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1

[Pecos45]

I was asked to clarify one point that has been raised concerning Melton and WDB. In the newspaper photograph as well as in life, Melton was the large man and Blair was the small man. Positively identified by people that knew both.

Thanks, CN. I for one was a bit mixed up on this. You have clarified it. And I would suggest also that DB exhibits all the characteristics of what I shall call "the small man complex." He reportedly always packed two to three guns and certainly loved to beat up and abuse women. With a father like WDB, who knows what "neat ideas" were put in his head about using and abusing women?

 

[Pecos45]

Quite right, Legacy. If only the ECSO had the tools and knowledge how to use them available in 1961 that are available today, I feel this crime might have been solved within a few months at most. But as I have tried to illustrate with my own case as a LEO in Lovington a few years later, police from small New Mexico towns weren't trained in much of anything. Sad but true. We were serious and conscientious but we didn't know much. I knew exactly how to investigate a traffic accident and nothing about a murder. Carlsbad seven years earlier would have suffered the same problem.

Carlsbad and the state police spent a lot of man hours interviewing people and searching for evidence around the scene. But from all I've read, there was never any serious follow up on anyone. And someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there was ever a search warrant issued against anyone.

Frankly, as high as emotions and public outrage was running in Carlsbad, I think a judge would have signed a search warrant for almost anything if he had been asked. And the most likely people seemed to find excuses for leaving Carlsbad almost immediately after the crime.

I don't think this crime would go unsolved most places today. But this is now and that was then. Big, sad difference.

 

[Gahannacop26]

Thank you for thinking Andy Sims and considering his case. I am Andy's half brother. If there is anything I can help you with I will do what I can. Again, thanks for your efforts.

 

[justthinkin]

GahannaCop,

Perhaps you can get Wichita Falls PD to follow up on Nichols. I don't know if they put out the necessary phone calls or not. When they were notified, both women were still living. The elder one has died recently.

If you will read Legacy's latest post in this thread, you will gain some insight into the Nichols fellow.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Investigator Sillas has gotten back with me and he has sent me copies of the DNA testing that was done in 2003. I can not put the results on here... I am disappointed but I at least know now they weren't lying to me. I just hope there is more we can do later on. But I still think they need to talk to these people that are still alive...all people of interest need to be interviewed. That is the way I feel.

 

[Legacy]

I have a question for those from the Carlsbad area who would have been teenagers or had teenage siblings around the time of Mattie's and Patty's murders... Where did the teenagers go if they were underage to congregate and socialize - other than the Beach or area drive-ins? Since some of this socialization would probably involve underage drinking, was there a favorite "party" spot out in the country where they would meet to socialize as a group, or even a favorite "make-out" spot for couples?

For anyone... since 21 is the legal drinking age in New Mexico currently, was it the same in 1961? How avid was law enforcement about targeting underage drinking at this time? Were teenagers fearful of getting caught then, as they are today? I'm curious about the laws regarding underage drinking in those days and if teenagers hid these activities, as we did many years ago before I turned 21.

I'd like to know where DB and his buddies hung out, as he obviously had much free time away from his wife. And who were his buddies? That will be difficult to answer without using names, but maybe a first name and a last initial would suffice.

 

[Pecos45]

I was from Artesia and was 20 at the time of the murders but I went to Carlsbad occasionally w/friends and on dates. The only places I knew to hang out were the beach, the Arrowhead and sometimes I went to the drive-in theater. I think the beach was the most popular. I don't know that any area cops gave drinking kids a bad time. Often just made them pour it out rather than take anyone to jail unless the kids got obnoxious. Artesia and Carlsbad were both more famous/infamous for wild cars and wild driving at the time and both towns sent a lot of kids to hospitals or cemetery proving it. Cops weren't much of an issue for kids with a little alcohol unless you just got on some officer's "dirt list."

Creeps like DB et al wouldn't be welcome among "normal" kids. Not that this would stop them from cruising kid hangouts. Also married people and unmarried kids seldom had anything to do with one another.

 

[Bobbi]

When I was visiting Carlsbad in 1976 before I moved there I remember my cousin telling me about him and his friends having "keg parties" out in the desert near Rocky Arroyo and Lake Avalon.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

When I was visiting Carlsbad in 1976 before I moved there I remember my cousin telling me about him and his friends having "keg parties" out in the desert near Rocky Arroyo and Lake Avalon.

Clifford...Buddy N. was DB's best friend. He was with him most of the time. Interesting that Bobbi would say Rocky Arroyo ....where the keg parties were held.

 

[Pecos45]

Rocky Arroyo was a popular place for lots of reasons. It's pretty. It's wild. Being about 20 miles away from Carlsbad, it's certainly "out there" and not a place that ever sees much of a LE presence. At least not back in the 1960s.

The only thing wrong with Rock Arroyo is it's pretty, wild and a fun place to be. This makes it a popular place for school/church parties etc. I went there in such groups several times growing up. Naturally during such events there are people everywhere and not the best of places for double murders.

But just what constitutes "rocky arroyo" is up for considerable discussion and might be thought of as a rather lengthy area of that little creek. Some of it is more remote than other parts and much less used.

A school night would probably be the best time for privacy. And I can see RA as being the intended destination of the killer. But for some reason he cut this idea short and just got rid of the girls ASAP and barely off highway 285.

One church trip I went on to the area when I was in school we played "Hide N Go Seek" after dark and with all the big rocks, undergrowth, etc it was a devil of a place to find anyone after dark. Ironically, if Patty and Mattie had been taken to RA and had bolted from the car and run like crazy in opposite directions, one of them might have gotten away...assuming just one killer was involved.

Since DB had an accomplice along on his first rape, I have some question whether he was along with both girls and the "other guy" lost his nerve at some point But at this time all this is just conjecture.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Rocky Arroyo was a popular place for lots of reasons. It's pretty. It's wild. Being about 20 miles away from Carlsbad, it's certainly "out there" and not a place that ever sees much of a LE presence. At least not back in the 1960s.

The only thing wrong with Rock Arroyo is it's pretty, wild and a fun place to be. This makes it a popular place for school/church parties etc. I went there in such groups several times growing up. Naturally during such events there are people everywhere and not the best of places for double murders.

But just what constitutes "rocky arroyo" is up for considerable discussion and might be thought of as a rather lengthy area of that little creek. Some of it is more remote than other parts and much less used.

A school night would probably be the best time for privacy. And I can see RA as being the intended destination of the killer. But for some reason he cut this idea short and just got rid of the girls ASAP and barely off highway 285.

One church trip I went on to the area when I was in school we played "Hide N Go Seek" after dark and with all the big rocks, undergrowth, etc it was a devil of a place to find anyone after dark. Ironically, if Patty and Mattie had been taken to RA and had bolted from the car and run like crazy in opposite directions, one of them might have gotten away...assuming just one killer was involved.

Since DB had an accomplice along on his first rape, I have some question whether he was along with both girls and the "other guy" lost his nerve at some point But at this time all this is just conjecture.

thanks for the information on RA. I've only been out there one time and I didn't get to go on into the area. Next time I'm there I will go and look for the beauty you have described. I have always thought that the area I was raised in was beautiful...just tainted for me.

I sure wish the girls could have run off that night...wouldn't it have been great to have a different out come to this story? I guess things happen for a reason...

 

[Legacy]

Does anyone know how far a distance it is from where the girls were found to the area DB used to frequent for his "kegger parties?" I suppose it would depend on where in RA and near Lake Avalon the parties were held.

Would these parties have involved campfires and/or an area of burned trees? I'm somewhat eluding to the medium/profiler's comments that came from Estrada's visit to her, but that is not my only reason. I have been very curious about her comments, however. We always had fires at the few parties of this nature I attended - mostly for light and partially for warmth.

 

[Legacy]

SS1950, do you know if either of DB's friends you mentioned were older than him, even by months or years? Are either of these two still living that you know of?

Another thing, Dr. Irvine of the OMI in Albuquerque had agreed to conduct a complex autopsy on either of the victims for DNA extraction and other findings when Estrada contacted her in 2003. Do you know why she was not present when Mattie's body was exhumed and instead it was only Estrada who examined her body?

 

[Sunshine 1950]

SS1950, do you know if either of DB's friends you mentioned were older than him, even by months or years? Are either of these two still living that you know of?

Another thing, Dr. Irvine of the OMI in Albuquerque had agreed to do a complex autopsy on either of the victims for DNA extraction and other findings when Estrada contacted her in 2003. Do you know why she was not present when Mattie's body was exhumed and instead it was only Estrada who examined her body?

DB is dead...as far as his friend Clifford...I don't know yet...I've been trying to find him. As far as the age of this guy...I'm not sure about that either...but I believe they were the same age.
As far as I know....Dr. Irvine was told to have Estrada pick all the evidence up...she was told she couldn't work on the things. Why I don't know. That is something I have never understood...Mattie and Patty were killed in New Mexico...why shouldn't there labs work on their evidence? They kept this evidence for almost a year...then called Estrada to come and get it...that was when he sent the evidence to another lab in California.
I believe that the OMI wasn't there because Mattie's body wasn't exhumed by the state...my father paid for her body to be exhumed...so she could be brought back to Oklahoma to be buried in our family plot. Estrada was basically looking for a slug or wadding from the old gun...but didn't find any of that. So nothing else was done. The ECSO didn't have or didn't request another autopsy...if they had...my father would have let them do it. I wish they would do that with Patty's body now....maybe they could find something on her body that they could use. Of course they (ECSO) aren't going to do that...to much work for them to do. To much time has gone by for them to be interested in it now....unsolvable......that is pretty much what they are saying to me.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Another thing that has been said to me by the investigator is that if these people of interest don't want to talk to him...he can't do a thing about it.....
I thought if you had an open case and a probable cause you could ask questions.
I just don't understand all this stuff....
So these POI just don't have to talk to the law? Now that is something isn't it?

 

[Legacy]

What will get ECSO pulling out all their investigative tools is accountability. That will have to come from a higher authority, so do write those letters if you feel like you're getting nowhere with them.

As the original lead agency, I do think the State Police also has some accountability here. After all, they had 263 pages of case file documents, ECSO only had 40 until they acquired the case file back from the State Police in 2003. Under whose authority was the case transferred - the captain from Roswell? Time to start climbing that chain of command. I believe the governor is in charge of the State Police, so why not start at the top and work your way down?

 

[Legacy]

Estrada took Patty's diary to the Psychic Medium/Profiler, so it was in custody in 2003 when he did this. Maybe he forgot to put it back into evidence then, or maybe he remembers where he put it.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Estrada took Patty's diary to the Psychic Medium/Profiler, so it was in custody in 2003 when he did this. Maybe he forgot to put it back into evidence then, or maybe he remembers where he put it.

Legacy you are right about that....I hadn't thought of that....so they have lost that diary since 2003.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

That is something. What will get ECSO pulling out all their investigative tools is accountability. That will have to come from a higher authority, so do write those letters if you feel like you're getting nowhere with them.

As the original lead agency, I do think the State Police also has some accountability here. After all, they had 263 pages of case file documents, ECSO only had 40 until they acquired the case file back from the State Police in 2003. Under whose authority was the case transferred - the captain from Roswell? Time to start climbing that chain of command. I believe the governor is in charge of the State Police, so why not start at the top and work your way down?

I don't think they feel like they have to answer to anyone....let alone the people in charge of the State of New Mexico. I'm beginning to think this is a lawless bunch of individuals and maybe a lawless state. I have started writing my letters. I just feel defeated right now...but I will write the letters.
I know they are trying to discourage me...and believe it or not they have to a point...I just have to gather my strength again....and watch out...here I come. Pray that I get the strength for this next round.

 

[Legacy]

Clifford...Buddy N. was DB's best friend. He was with him most of the time. Interesting that Bobbi would say Rocky Arroyo ....where the keg parties were held.

I guess I thought this was two different friends, but it was Clifford who went by the nickname of Buddy, right? I was mentioning the two friends, but I see now that you're talking about just one friend. Sorry for the misunderstanding and wording of some of my subsequent posts.