NM NM - Patty Pritz, 14, & Mattie Restine, 13, Carlsbad, 11 Aug 1961 - #1

[Legacy]

SS1950, have you been able to find reports regarding a possible abduction on Church Street versus Mesquite? Also, you mentioned talking to a man who would have been a boy at the time who walked part of the way with the girls down Church Street the fateful night.

If we had that information, maybe it would help. I hope you had a great time on your trip last weekend...

 

[Sunshine 1950]

SS1950, have you been able to find reports regarding a possible abduction on Church Street versus Mesquite? Also, you mentioned talking to a man who would have been a boy at the time who walked part of the way with the girls down Church Street the fateful night.

If we had that information, maybe it would help. I hope you had a great time on your trip last weekend...

legacy I haven't been able to find where there is a report where the girls were picked up on Church St. But I will ask Investigator Sillas where he got his information on that fact. He hasn't e-mailed me in several days. But he said he would when he heard from Charles Titus...regarding visiting him about this case. Personally I doubt CT visits with him...especially since AB has told Sillas she doesn't have to talk to him...to not bother her again. I just don't see or let's say understand how a person can tell a law enforcement officer that they aren't going to talk to them...and to not bother again. I would be scared to death to tell an officer that.
The guy that visited with Mattie and Patty on Church St. that day was B. Lunsford...he said they meet them around noon on the sideway and walked with them to almost the beach...then left them going in the direction of the beach...that was way to early for anything to come from that time of day.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I've got DB arrest record for the rape he committed in 1963. Very interesting. This young man was in trouble with the law alot. If I'm reading this arrest warrant and trial correctly he raped an underage girl and she got pg. But he got probation for that rape....and he violated that probation in 1967...and had to go to prison...just for 8 months. Can you believe that. And I'm not sure the trial recognized it as rape...I think they wrote it up as mishandling of a minor. DB got out of prison way to early. He should have serve his entire sentence.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

What is odd is that the names that are all over DB arrest reports. These people are the same names that we have been talking about....McGrew, Hawkins, S. Wheeler, Anaya, C. Neal, so many are the same names that are all over Patty and Matties reports.

 

[justthinkin]

SS1950, can you post David Blair's arrest record and convictions?

On another note, I, too, am a little puzzled by the girls having been picked up on Church Street. There must be info in that file about that that you weren't given. Sure didn't see anything about that in Estrada's report.
What is the deal? These murders happened in 1961, and here it is 2009, and they have info they didn't provide you that you should've been given.

 

[Pecos45]

I've got DB arrest record for the rape he committed in 1963. Very interesting. This young man was in trouble with the law alot. If I'm reading this arrest warrant and trial correctly he raped an underage girl and she got pg. But he got probation for that rape....and he violated that probation in 1967...and had to go to prison...just for 8 months. Can you believe that. And I'm not sure the trial recognized it as rape...I think they wrote it up as mishandling of a minor. DB got out of prison way to early. He should have serve his entire sentence.

Back in the old days rape usually got little more than community service. I can't provide dates but it seems like it's only been about the last 20 years that rape has been treated as a serious offense. Back in the 60's I don't believe this was the case at all.

 

[Pecos45]

SS1950, can you post David Blair's arrest record and convictions?

On another note, I, too, am a little puzzled by the girls having been picked up on Church Street. There must be info in that file about that that you weren't given. Sure didn't see anything about that in Estrada's report.
What is the deal? These murders happened in 1961, and here it is 2009, and they have info they didn't provide you that you should've been given.

Yes, I'd love to see that as well. There is just something inherently evil about this guy in my mind. Patty was trying so hard to impress the male race at that time, I can easily see her being flattered at his car and his attention. I think she would have gotten in the car with minimum persuasion. Mattie foolishly went along with the older girl, never dreaming how it would turn out.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

SS1950, can you post David Blair's arrest record and convictions?

On another note, I, too, am a little puzzled by the girls having been picked up on Church Street. There must be info in that file about that that you weren't given. Sure didn't see anything about that in Estrada's report.
What is the deal? These murders happened in 1961, and here it is 2009, and they have info they didn't provide you that you should've been given.

Well...maybe...it's over 40 pages long! I'll try and find the one where he was picked up on the rape...but like I said...this record is way to big of a file.
I know the Eddy County Sheriff's Dept. didn't give me everythng. They were to worried about what I would do with it I guess. But they didn't tell me what to do or what not to do with it. I guess that is because it is a public record. If you go in and ask to see the files...I think they have to let you look at it. I might be wrong on that...but I believe I was told that once.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Back in the old days rape usually got little more than community service. I can't provide dates but it seems like it's only been about the last 20 years that rape has been treated as a serious offense. Back in the 60's I don't believe this was the case at all.

I believe I saw on one of these reports...something about penal code offenses
1-99 years for rape and
6 months to five years for mishandling of a minor

So they didn't get DB on rape...but gave him a slap on the wrist and 5 yrs. probation.
He violated that probation by " You will at all times conduct yourself in an honorable manner as a good member of the community. You will not endanger in anyway the person, property, rights, dignity or morals of others."
His conduct report : Unsatisfactory
Reasons: 1. whipping wife with a belt 2-14-64---charges dismissed
2. carrying on an affair with another man's wife and being discovered
in bedroom with another woman-not his wife. In his mother's home.
5-23-64---charges dismissed
3. non-support of his wife and children 5-20-64
4. attempted assualt on a minor 10-22-64
charges dismissed.
5. attempting to secure credit under a fictitious name. 5-10-65
6. exposed himself to minor, at Sunset Elementary School, Carlsbad
12-8-66
7. leaving the state without proper authority given
David's actions were brought to the law enforcement agency...Eddy County Sheriff's Dept. by BB parent's. Then BB said none of that happened. But DB did admit to those actions. But he was sent to the prison for just " leaving the state without proper authority.



That is what put DB in prison, not the so called rape. I'm not a lawyer...but that is what it looks like to me. And BB told me all of this one time when we talked on the telephone.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Another thing that didn't set well with me when I was reading this record on DB. When he was raping this underage (girl) minor...his best friend was driving the car. While the rape was going on. This friend didn't get anything for his actions. I would like to know what kind of car this friend was driving the night Mattie and Patty were killed. I've asked this of Sillas...

 

[Pecos45]

A good reason for people like DB to prey on children is because they make pitiful witnesses in court and 99 times out of 100 even a fairly good lawyer can make them look silly.

Candy's not the only thing you can take from kids.:furious:

 

[justthinkin]

I am sitting here wondering why a number of miners thought Willie Dee committed these murders and not his son. Was it strictly because of the molestation charges against him that were dropped or was there more to it than that?

 

[Sunshine 1950]

I am sitting here wondering why a number of miners thought Willie Dee committed these murders and not his son. Was it strictly because of the molestation charges against him that were dropped or was there more to it than that?

I don't know the answer to that question...but I do know most of the miner's I've talked to about this case has said that they felt like WDB did it. But I do know also that most of these miner's have now passed away...so again...the answers and witnesses are gone. I will try and find some of them and ask that question. Why they thought WDB killed the girls...

 

[justthinkin]

SS1950, when you do please ask them what they knew about Willie Dee's son, David, and why they would think Willie Dee did it and not his son. Also ask if they think Willie Dee may have committed any of the other murders in the area, and what would make them think that.

Maybe some of the younger miners back then are still around, those that were in their 20s or 30s.

On another note, why in the H can't Silas have AB and Titus subpoenaed to give a deposition? I'm wondering why in all these years this was never done. Blair, Melton, David, all those people could have been subpoenaed.

 

[ProudSolver]

Well...maybe...it's over 40 pages long! I'll try and find the one where he was picked up on the rape...but like I said...this record is way to big of a file.
I know the Eddy County Sheriff's Dept. didn't give me everythng. They were to worried about what I would do with it I guess. But they didn't tell me what to do or what not to do with it. I guess that is because it is a public record. If you go in and ask to see the files...I think they have to let you look at it. I might be wrong on that...but I believe I was told that once.

Police reports are only made available to the public if the investigation is closed, if you are the victim/suspect or party to the complaint, or if the supervisor signs off on the release. There are usually forms you have to sign with your name and contact information and why you need the report. They do not have to let you look at the reports unless you meet one of the above mentioned criteria.

 

[Pecos45]

I am sitting here wondering why a number of miners thought Willie Dee committed these murders and not his son. Was it strictly because of the molestation charges against him that were dropped or was there more to it than that?

My guess is they knew what sort of guy the father was.......but they never met the son. The had no idea DB was as bad or worse. JMHO

 

[justthinkin]

Here's a question for Silas. Was it ever noted in the case file whether or not the rabbits that Melton shot were found? And were there a number of rabbits in that pasture where the girls were found?

To Pecos45,

What size town was Carlsbad back in 1961? If it wasn't too big, then some could've known both the father and the son or known of them by their reputations. Was there more than one high school in town?

 

[Pecos45]

Here's a question for Silas. Was it ever noted in the case file whether or not the rabbits that Melton shot were found? And were there a number of rabbits in that pasture where the girls were found?

To Pecos45,

What size town was Carlsbad back in 1961? If it wasn't too big, then some could've known both the father and the son or known of them by their reputations. Was there more than one high school in town?

JT - I graduated from Artesia in 1959. Artesia is sort of the "sister city" of Carlsbad. Back during that time I would say Artesia was about 10,000 people and Carlsbad maybe 12,000. If memory serves me both had only one high school. Towns that size it's very possible some people knew both WDB and DB, although I don't know how intimately they would know both.

Rabbits back in those days were under every rock and bush. Hunting them was the favorite past time of many people. But the area where the crimes were committed would not have been prime rabbit country. It was and is mostly grease wood or creosote bush as we called it. Very oily and smells just like creosote. Not a favorite food of anything...including bugs and rabbits.

That is something I would have challenged WDB about when he claimed it was "prime rabbit country" or something similar. Far more rabbits east of the Pecos where you get into mesquite country which rabbits will eat.

 

[justthinkin]

Church Street pick-up.....

The Eddy County Sheriff's Department has always known more than they have been willing to say. After this long, that info about a Church Street pick-up or abduction should have been part of the public record with witness statements to back it up, and you, SS1950, weren't allowed to have it.

In the mean time, they've lost evidence, and it's hard to say whether they've messed up this investigation with their own ineptitude or whether there's been a cover up as you've suspected all along. The truth needs to come out, and I don't think you're going to get it out of them at this late date either. So it's time to go the route we talked about, get the answers, and bring this farce to a halt.

If this Church Street pick up or abduction site has anything to do with someone or several in Eddy Co. Sheriff's office still trying to lay blame on McGrew, then I think for sure this is a cover up because I don't believe for one second that man could come to your house over and over, been so comfortable around your grieving family, and have committed this crime. From what you've said about McGrew, just the opposite was true, that he was a caring man, concerned with bringing justice to bear on the person or persons who committed this crime, and was shot for his efforts.

They are going to find themselves in a heap of trouble if no autopsy was done on McGrew, and in trying to explain how evidence has been lost in this case, and they will have to explain it! There is no excuse for losing evidence. So maybe they will turn that place upside down and find the things they've lost.

Skip the letters to the senators, and go to the one person we talked about who can do something. There is no time to spare. You will need to name the names of the investigators who tried to reopen this case in 1973?, and whose efforts were dismissed. Those are old men now, and what they might remember is of utmost importance here.

Legacy can probably provide you with reasonably current addresses and phone numbers for them if they are still living. She has an Ancestry account, and I know she can access more current information through it if given a general idea as to their whereabouts.

 

[Sunshine 1950]

Church Street pick-up.....

The Eddy County Sheriff's Department has always known more than they have been willing to say. After this long, that info about a Church Street pick-up or abduction should have been part of the public record with witness statements to back it up, and you, SS1950, weren't allowed to have it.

In the mean time, they've lost evidence, and it's hard to say whether they've messed up this investigation with their own ineptitude or whether there's been a cover up as you've suspected all along. The truth needs to come out, and I don't think you're going to get it out of them at this late date either. So it's time to go the route we talked about, get the answers, and bring this farce to a halt.

If this Church Street pick up or abduction site has anything to do with someone or several in Eddy Co. Sheriff's office still trying to lay blame on McGrew, then I think for sure this is a cover up because I don't believe for one second that man could come to your house over and over, been so comfortable around your grieving family, and have committed this crime. From what you've said about McGrew, just the opposite was true, that he was a caring man, concerned with bringing justice to bear on the person or persons who committed this crime, and was shot for his efforts.

They are going to find themselves in a heap of trouble if no autopsy was done on McGrew, and in trying to explain how evidence has been lost in this case, and they will have to explain it! There is no excuse for losing evidence. So maybe they will turn that place upside down and find the things they've lost.

Skip the letters to the senators, and go to the one person we talked about who can do something. There is no time to spare. You will need to name the names of the investigators who tried to reopen this case in 1973?, and whose efforts were dismissed. Those are old men now, and what they might remember is of utmost importance here.

Legacy can probably provide you with reasonably current addresses and phone numbers for them if they are still living. She has an Ancestry account, and I know she can access more current information through it if given a general idea as to their whereabouts.

I e-mailed Investigator Richard Sillas and asked him about the Church St. pickup being the one they were positive the girls were picked up at. Also asked him some more questions regarding DB and if he had heard from the Cop in Pecos. But he hasn't answered my e-mail at this time. I will give him a few more days to answer before I do anything else. But rest assured...I will write the letters this coming week...to get the ball rolling in the (hopefully)right direction.
Please pray that the answers start coming in...I'm at my wits end on this and I don't know where to turn next.