NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

[kalamityk]

If, and only if, the accused in this matter intentionally killed his wife it would make sense to inform the DPP ASAP that he intends to plead guilty IMO. The stress imposed on family and friends by years of legal proceedings would be prevented. Loved ones may be able to avoid contempt or perjury charges and prison from a misplaced sense of duty. He may be able to avoid an extra 5yrs prison if he is then sentenced soon. He would only be in his mid fifties when paroled and his kids would still be young women and there could at least be a chance for some healing if not forgiveness. He could forget about clutching at straws for an acquittal and focus on his own rehabilitation right now, starting with an honest understanding of what happened and why. A long jail term doesn't need to be a death sentence. He could be a different human being when released if he commits to change. There are some amazing people in corrections who could help him to still lead a life that would have some meaning and purpose.

Would his legal team advise him about pleading guilty? Maybe if they think the family won't be able to pay ?

 

[CaseClosed]

CC I hadn't thought of that, in that case we may see more arrest. Although the prosecution did state that his second charge of interfering with a corpse occurred at Kholo Creek.

Yes, because logic would make us assume that he himself disposed of the body and at that point in time (bail hearing), QPS may have not have enough info/evidence to place other people at the creek. But, there are so many possible scenarios ... we can only hope that the truth will start to show at the Committal Hearing.

 

[CaseClosed]

If it's an elite service unit of the Australian Special Operations Command. Like SAS.

I read he was only trained as an Army Reserve.

 

[kalamityk]

CC I hadn't thought of that, in that case we may see more arrest. Although the prosecution did state that his second charge of interfering with a corpse occurred at Kholo Creek.

I think that if QPS have charged him with interfering with a corpse at Kholo creek then they have something that puts him there maybe mud

 

[Rational]

When I was 16 I used to ride my bike round Durness street. Sixteen. Oh to be sixteen/16 again

....And know what we know now!!?

 

[CaseClosed]

I think that if QPS have charged him with interfering with a corpse at Kholo creek then they have something that puts him there maybe mud

They may have some evidence placing him at the creek, however I find it strange that this critical piece of info was not mentioned in the prosecution case at the Bail Hearing. The prosecution ran a risk of him getting bail that day, hence if they had such critical piece of evidence, why not use it against him a the Bail Hearing?

 

[Timmy]

....And know what we know now!!?

I thought that was a HINT to the address.

(KeyBoredom's Ode to his/her youth)

 

[kalamityk]

They may have some evidence placing him at the creek, however I find it strange that this critical piece of info was not mentioned in the prosecution case at the Bail Hearing. The prosecution ran a risk of him getting bail that day, hence if they had such critical piece of evidence, why not use it against him a the Bail Hearing?

Maybe they were waiting for lab tests to come back- pretty sure so they charged him but not set in concrete yet

 

[CaseClosed]

I thought that was a HINT to the address.

Yes, it is. It's No. 16 - i've just checked street view on google.

 

[grannie]

I read he was only trained as an Army Reserve.

Well.. it's a kindergarten.. JMO.

 

[DunnoZo]

Apple blossom
So sorry to hear that. How many terrible things have been told of women who have been close to being killed just on this forum alone?

What is it that stops us from seeing and labelling this kind of thing for what it really is? I am starting to feel that by labelling it domestic or family violence we are somehow putting it in the too hard basket. If it was two males doing it in a pub brawl it would be classified as Grievous Bodily Harm or attempted murder. How many more women have to go through this, and how many more are going to end up like Allison. :banghead:

What can we do to make women feel confident enough in themselves to report these things to police and not see it as an abberration in someone's behaviour (he really loves me, it won't happen again, if I change it will be ok, he really loves me 'deep down')? Ahh I wish I had some answers!

So sad for all of you who have had so many horrible experiences. I praise your strength! My question is how do we strengthen our sons & daughters and prepare them to avoid these situations, and how do we assure our kids grow up to be honest , loyal and respectful? I hope it's by parental guidance and influence. It scares me that they just let anybody take a baby home from hospital. MOO

 

[DrWatson]

Morning all

Just to reiterate a post from late last night, and to see if I can put it in a better way, more logical:

All the speculation about cause of death, including everything from plastic bags to carbon monoxide poisoning, injection of insulin or whatever, etc is all good conjecture, but I think it boils down to two possible scenarios:

1. The murder was pre-meditated, and planned, in which case ANY method could have been used, no matter how complicated it may appear to be. This could include steps taken to cover up the crime and hide the method used.

2. The murder was a "heat of the moment" thing. In this situation, what we normally see is something that is very quick and very final as the cause of death, eg stabbing, a blow, a gunshot, etc etc - the type of thing from which there is no pulling back. Once done, in a split second, it is done.

With the No 2 scenario, the slower methods, such as suffocation, strangling, head in the bath, etc in MOST cases (not necessarily all) would be aborted as the victim fought, and the realization of what one was doing dawned. It takes a very prolonged "brain snap" to continue with something that takes a significant amount of time, if the victim is fighting back, scratching, kicking, etc.

Having been involved in several murder cases over the years, these heat of the moment ones have almost always been the blow to the head, (maybe from a push, may from a fist or blunt instrument), a stabbing, or a shot. So quick that it is impossible to abort the action. It's only when it's done that realization dawns, and usually the perpetrator is then in varying degrees of panic as to what to do next.

So, the autopsy and the prosecution releasing the cause of death will tell us a lot. if the method used was one of the slower methods, including drowning in the bath, plastic bag over the head, or whatever, we could reasonably assume that it was a carefully premeditated action. Which, in turn, would imply that the subsequent actions to dispose of the body and clean the murder site would have already been thought of.

Going on the above logic, I get the feeling that this may have been a heat of the moment job, so a blow, stabbing, etc - something instantaneous - would have been the method. Of course, that is pure speculation on my part, but tempered by the knowledge of the ones I've seen in the past.

The call to NBC in the middle of the night would suggest a degree of panic as to what to do next, although again, that is pure speculation. It may have been to report "mission accomplished" - we just don't know. Although I find it hard to credit a father plotting in this way with his son.

Hope that stream of thought logic makes some kind of sense....

 

[KG1]

Maybe they were waiting for lab tests to come back- pretty sure so they charged him but not set in concrete yet

Yes, as far as I recall, more forensic tests were being conducted and something was sent to WA and/or Melbourne for testing. These test results, which may take weeks, were not available at the time of the bail hearing. The hearing scheduled for July 9 so far as I understand is for a committal mention only. This is done to keep it in the list for the future, and it will likely be referred for a further mention on that date. Unless something dramatic happens of course - such as a very early plea of guilty by the charged person. Highly unlikely IMO.

 

[DunnoZo]

IMO it looks like GBC already had a "friend" who had a psychology degree.

 

[CaseClosed]

So sad for all of you who have had so many horrible experiences. I praise your strength! My question is how do we strengthen our sons & daughters and prepare them to avoid these situations, and how do we assure our kids grow up to be honest , loyal and respectful? I hope it's by parental guidance and influence. It scares me that they just let anybody take a baby home from hospital. MOO

I think the key is to teach our daughters that they are not "one half" of a couple by "one whole" on their own. So many women think that without a partner they are not "complete", which IMO is so sad. Women have to love themselves BEFORE loving someone else. With sons, they need to be taught IMO that women are not their servants, they are not their property and they are equal to them. Women are their "partners", with equal say and shared duties, whether that be income producing or raising children or household chores. IMO.

 

[DunnoZo]

Thanks CaseClosed, you know your stuff! and I agree.

 

[Hawkins]

Morning all

Going on the above logic, I get the feeling that this may have been a heat of the moment job, so a blow, stabbing, etc - something instantaneous - would have been the method. Of course, that is pure speculation on my part, but tempered by the knowledge of the ones I've seen in the past.

The call to NBC in the middle of the night would suggest a degree of panic as to what to do next, although again, that is pure speculation. It may have been to report "mission accomplished" - we just don't know. Although I find it hard to credit a father plotting in this way with his son.

Hope that stream of thought logic makes some kind of sense....

Husband on wife DV killings very rarely involve attempts to hide the body. It's so rare that I can't recall one in Qld. The heat of passion killings involve quick calls to ooo and an attempt to spin it as an accident or provocation.

 

[CaseClosed]

Morning all

Just to reiterate a post from late last night, and to see if I can put it in a better way, more logical:

All the speculation about cause of death, including everything from plastic bags to carbon monoxide poisoning, injection of insulin or whatever, etc is all good conjecture, but I think it boils down to two possible scenarios:

1. The murder was pre-meditated, and planned, in which case ANY method could have been used, no matter how complicated it may appear to be. This could include steps taken to cover up the crime and hide the method used.

2. The murder was a "heat of the moment" thing. In this situation, what we normally see is something that is very quick and very final as the cause of death, eg stabbing, a blow, a gunshot, etc etc - the type of thing from which there is no pulling back. Once done, in a split second, it is done.

With the No 2 scenario, the slower methods, such as suffocation, strangling, head in the bath, etc in MOST cases (not necessarily all) would be aborted as the victim fought, and the realization of what one was doing dawned. It takes a very prolonged "brain snap" to continue with something that takes a significant amount of time, if the victim is fighting back, scratching, kicking, etc.

Having been involved in several murder cases over the years, these heat of the moment ones have almost always been the blow to the head, (maybe from a push, may from a fist or blunt instrument), a stabbing, or a shot. So quick that it is impossible to abort the action. It's only when it's done that realization dawns, and usually the perpetrator is then in varying degrees of panic as to what to do next.

So, the autopsy and the prosecution releasing the cause of death will tell us a lot. if the method used was one of the slower methods, including drowning in the bath, plastic bag over the head, or whatever, we could reasonably assume that it was a carefully premeditated action. Which, in turn, would imply that the subsequent actions to dispose of the body and clean the murder site would have already been thought of.

Going on the above logic, I get the feeling that this may have been a heat of the moment job, so a blow, stabbing, etc - something instantaneous - would have been the method. Of course, that is pure speculation on my part, but tempered by the knowledge of the ones I've seen in the past.

The call to NBC in the middle of the night would suggest a degree of panic as to what to do next, although again, that is pure speculation. It may have been to report "mission accomplished" - we just don't know. Although I find it hard to credit a father plotting in this way with his son.

Hope that stream of thought logic makes some kind of sense....

:goodpost:

Very good analysis. Thank you. I have always thought the no. 2 scenario was more likely, however his enquiries about life insurance now place me in a confused state.

 

[CaseClosed]

IMO it looks like GBC already had a "friend" who had a psychology degree.

Do you mean an FB friend or something else?

 

[DunnoZo]

Do you mean an FB friend or something else?

FB, Life coach in fact, MOO