NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#30

[BJsleuth]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...reme-court-judge/story-fndo45r1-1226417246206

Only weeks after The Courier-Mail revealed the delays meant accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay was facing the prospect of more than two years in custody awaiting trial, Premier Campbell Newman and Attorney General Jarrod Bleijie yesterday confirmed a new appointment was imminent.

 

[Even]

In my opinion, Allison's body was initially hidden somewhere around the Tyamolum scout ground exactly because it would definitely be found there, one day. But not immediately because scouts left the camp due to rainfall forecast. The perp knew that and knew the area well. Besides, police "identified what could have been drag marks near a dirt track leading into one of the creeks."

Would drag marks still be apparent after the rain ? I would have though drag marks by there nature is the disturbance of the loose layer of soil which would be washed away. Perhaps it indicates moving after the rain. Or the dragging of a canoe/ kayak onto or off the river edge.

I'm assuming they checked the story of the kayaker and his alibi the night/evening in question ?

 

[Fuskier]

Respectfully snipped...

It is a good question..IF GBC did it and IF he did not want her found, how does that help in his immediate financial situation.. if the body is not found it is 7 yrs isnt it before a missing person can be declared dead and life insurance claimed?

But theres a couple of IF's in there, even if guilty, we don't know he did not want her found.. Maybe its more just a case of not thinking it through..as with a few other things that are alleged.. some of it all very silly. IMO

A search area had to be defined, to concentrate resources. One was defined after the triangulation of the mobile phone signals. Possible she may have been placed under the bridge, a known geocache area. This would ensure it was only a matter of time before her body was found. Alternatively, she may have floated from the Tyamoleum scout camp area to where she was found as others have said. It will become clearer at the trial. MOO.

 

[Fuskier]

Not feasible, with Kholo creek, IMHO. And there is no "creek bed" as in a dry creek bed. It has water in it most of the time. Running water. And is very steep-sided.

...That photo shows Allison high up on the outer radius, and just beyond the bridge, so I would presume she was carried around the outer radius and up high, on the current which would have been very strong. That creek drains a lot of the surrounding hills, and we had a LOT of rain over two days...

...I really doubt that anyone would have TAKEN her down there. Even the police had to use ropes and gear to get near her.

Very thorough analysis and convincing. However, the Police used ropes etc because they had OH&S requirements for their employees. A couple of physically fit people, wanting to conceal a body or experienced scouts could have traversed that terrain with ready access to equipment i.e.head lamps, ropes anchored to the Prado, climbing boots, two way radio system, early warning signals of oncoming vehicles, etc. Scouting trains one about survival in the bush. Just saying it could be done.
My opinion, not fact.

 

[Thinking]

Someone hunted down the Coles trolley boy and found no chains were missing.

To be honest, I didn't know chains were even used anymore. My understanding is it's those seat-belt looking things thesedays.

The chains story won't go away it seems. I heard yesterday that they (police) have proof that chain was bought from the hardware store in the village (which is also where Coles is) in the weeks leading up to the 19/20th.

If this is true (to be honest I don't believe it!) then I can see how the story may have been "Chinese whispered" into becoming a "chains from Coles" story.

 

[possumheart]

Very thorough analysis and convincing. However, the Police used ropes etc because they had OH&S requirements for their employees. A couple of physically fit people, wanting to conceal a body or experienced scouts could have traversed that terrain with ready access to equipment i.e.head lamps, ropes anchored to the Prado, climbing boots, two way radio system, early warning signals of oncoming vehicles, etc. Scouting trains one about survival in the bush. Just saying it could be done.
My opinion, not fact.

Easy to traverse in daylight wearing walking shoes. Head lamps would make it doable at night. Where do caterpillars go at night? Do they sleep?

 

[Mountain Misst]

I am sure Hollywood will be pounding my door down for the movie rights shortly! Just hope Mr. Nyst doesn't gazump me!!

:giggle::giggle:

Am already over it like a rash mate.

 

[Fuskier]

I do wonder if the interfering with corpse charge was when it was realised a body was needed for insurance and that she was moved where she could be found - I find that horrible to think of, but I do wonder.
All I know is that if a loved one of mine was missing I would come clean on my sins just so I could be eliminated and the police could start actively looking for the real perpetrator...

Exactly, "...if a loved one of mine was missing...". IMO we don't murder those we love. According to MSM, evidence suggests that sexual and emotional energy had been divested from the marital relationship into other relationships outside the marriage i.e. a four year affair and alleged 2 other affairs. My opinion, not fact.

 

[Even]

Very thorough analysis and convincing. However, the Police used ropes etc because they had OH&S requirements for their employees. A couple of physically fit people, wanting to conceal a body or experienced scouts could have traversed that terrain with ready access to equipment i.e.head lamps, ropes anchored to the Prado, climbing boots, two way radio system, early warning signals of oncoming vehicles, etc. Scouting trains one about survival in the bush. Just saying it could be done.
My opinion, not fact.

I think occams razor needs to be applied. What is the simplest explanation. Body was tipped over side of the bridge with something tied to keep the body down-the proverbial concrete boots. This satisfies key requirements if you think of the thought processes of a killer. What is tied to the body to weight it down can be done out of sight. You drive carefully under the speed limit to the bridge. Check for headlights of oncoming car, jump out of the car, dump body over side of bridge, drive away. 30 second exposure at the critical point where someone can drive past. Continue driving and dump car mats and anything else likely to contain forensic evidence in the river a few km up the road. Nothing has been said either way on whether the body was weighted down or not, other than the rumor about the chains.

 

[Even]

The chains story won't go away it seems. I heard yesterday that they (police) have proof that chain was bought from the hardware store in the village (which is also where Coles is) in the weeks leading up to the 19/20th.

If this is true (to be honest I don't believe it!) then I can see how the story may have been "Chinese whispered" into becoming a "chains from Coles" story.

I seriously hope the killer was stupid enough to buy chain from the local store. This would be fabulous evidence showing premeditation. Chain is not something you buy without a purpose. Either show what the chain was used for or who you gave it to or show the chain still in your garage. If you can't account and the same style chain is found on the body -well that's rock solid circumstantial.

 

[clara123]

Respectfully snipped...

It is a good question..IF GBC did it and IF he did not want her found, how does that help in his immediate financial situation.. if the body is not found it is 7 yrs isnt it before a missing person can be declared dead and life insurance claimed?

But theres a couple of IF's in there, even if guilty, we don't know he did not want her found.. Maybe its more just a case of not thinking it through..as with a few other things that are alleged.. some of it all very silly. IMO

Sorry, I have not had time to read back through recent posts; just responding to the first one I read because for a few days now I have been wondering: perhaps there is a connection between the location of the body under the bridge and the fact that it was a 'geocache' location. Perhaps if the murderer KNEW that area contained a geocache then that person could be reasonably certain that the body would be found eventually. Assuming body not washed from (very far) upstream of course.

 

[clara123]

Sorry, I have not had time to read back through recent posts; just responding to the first one I read because for a few days now I have been wondering: perhaps there is a connection between the location of the body under the bridge and the fact that it was a 'geocache' location. Perhaps if the murderer KNEW that area contained a geocache then that person could be reasonably certain that the body would be found eventually. Assuming body not washed from (very far) upstream of course.

Edit to add: In addition to the Baden-Clay scouting connection, wasn't there a link somewhere on a C21 website that mentioned geocaching? I would never be able to find it (the link). Sorry if this has already been covered.

 

[LauraMars]

I keep going round and round in circles regarding the whole 'where the body was originally placed' thing.

For the most part I thought it was more likely that it was placed further up near the Scout Camp, and washed down with the rain, even though that seems too obvious a place, considering their scouting connections. There are so many other places around there a body could have been placed/hidden. Also this does tend to make one wonder that if this was the case, then maybe they didn't want the body found, which kind of throws the whole insurance as motive idea (unless they planned on a later tip off). Makes me wonder if there's a lot more to this murder than insurance.

If the body was placed beneath the bridge, then I suppose the fact that kayakers use the creek, and it being a geocache site (if the killer knew this even?) may have led them to believe the body would be found eventually, and that an insurance claim could go ahead.

The thing that throws me with the latter scenario, is the risk that the body could easily have washed down from the bridge (with very high rainfall) into the Brisbane river, in which case it may well never have been found, and presumably a 7 year wait for insurance pay out (though I'm still unsure about the whole 7 year thing - can anyone confirm this is what happens?)

 

[bellgirl]

Are there bins at the showground? Hopefully the police searched there! It may have been there earlier then taken back to the house.

BJSleuth - there were wheelie bins at the Showgrounds for the Cricket Fundraiser. I agree, hopefully they were checked.

 

[DrWatson]

Although I've read through most of this entire thread, from before I joined the discussion, I can't find where this geocache thing has come from. There is a post from Kimster mentioning the word, but I wonder if another post has been removed?

Or have I just not been able to find it?

Where did that information come from, and is it verified or is it just a rumour or a hypothesis?

Sorry - not questioning peoples' integrity here, but I honestly can't find that information. I would have thought that a geocache location somewhere in proximity to the scout camp would be likely, but not under the road bridge given that there isn't really any pedestrian easy access.....

Anyone? Link queen (Marly)?

 

[kalamityk]

I remember the geocache - was almost a whole thread - I'll have a look

 

[mouse detective]

Although I've read through most of this entire thread, from before I joined the discussion, I can't find where this geocache thing has come from. There is a post from Kimster mentioning the word, but I wonder if another post has been removed?

Or have I just not been able to find it?

Where did that information come from, and is it verified or is it just a rumour or a hypothesis?

Sorry - not questioning peoples' integrity here, but I honestly can't find that information. I would have thought that a geocache location somewhere in proximity to the scout camp would be likely, but not under the road bridge given that there isn't really any pedestrian easy access.....

Anyone? Link queen (Marly)?

Here you go Doc - Thread 17

06-03-2012, 05:06 AM

Happymedium
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 37
Hmmmmm...interesting!

I had a fellow Geocacher contact me stating that there is a cache hidden in the same location where the body was found.
For those who are unfamiliar with Geocaching...it's a real-world outdoor treasure hunting game. Players try to locate hidden containers, called geocaches, using GPS-enabled devices and then share their experiences online.
The cache is called 'Ugly As'
An interesting log posted from a cacher who visited recently.

Obviously the perp had no knowledge that it was a cache site...therefore not a Geocacher which is something the Scouts are into from my understanding.
Just saying...sorry if this has already been posted and discussed

 

[LauraMars]

There definitely is a geocache site right at the bridge (or there certainly was at the time when Allison was found, and I think it had been there for ages). I went to the Geocache website after it was mentioned on here (way back) and while it didn't say where the cache is hidden, there was a comments page regarding it, and various posts from people who have either searched for it or found it. I gather the cache might be actually on the bridge pylons, and the instructions said one had to be in a small boat/kayak in order to find it.

Some posts may have been removed regarding this though, so not sure if I should say more about why it was being discussed. Maybe the cache has been removed from that spot since. Just trying to find details on that geocache website that was originally mentioned.

 

[clara123]

Although I've read through most of this entire thread, from before I joined the discussion, I can't find where this geocache thing has come from. There is a post from Kimster mentioning the word, but I wonder if another post has been removed?

Or have I just not been able to find it?

Where did that information come from, and is it verified or is it just a rumour or a hypothesis?

Sorry - not questioning peoples' integrity here, but I honestly can't find that information. I would have thought that a geocache location somewhere in proximity to the scout camp would be likely, but not under the road bridge given that there isn't really any pedestrian easy access.....

Anyone? Link queen (Marly)?

Hello Watson,

Sorry to post without linking but I'm somewhat IT challenged, my line of work being not dissimilar to yours.

I'm positive there was discussion about the location of Allison's body and the concurrence of a geocache site within a reasonable/sensible radius. The detail surrounding the discussion struck me as factual/honest. That's all I can say, sorry, probably broken few forum rules here.

Also, while I still entertain the possibility of a wash down from upstream, I have difficulty imagining significant post mortem trauma had the body been discarded over the bridge. In my mind, the degree of damage would depend on time since death, ambient temp etc. I would think that injuries to a corpse would be quite different to injuries to a living body, in that they respond diferently to forces. IMHOO


No disrespect to Allison intended, this is a heinious crime that will have repercussions for years to come. If I could work out how to post a sunflower, I would.

"sunflower"

 

[mouse detective]

THis is the cache map

http://geocaching.com.au/caches/available/au/qld.gmap