"no red flags"

[countingstars]

Here's another one:

Didn't Casey tell Cindy to meet her at Universal so that she could see Caylee, and then she never showed up? That would be a BIG, BRIGHT, FLAMING, RED FLAG for me.

 

[DAWN TREADER]

Once, just once, I wish one of these Media outlets that are giving them air time/interviews, would have the guts to say to them when they say there were no red flags, "So why did you feel the need to look under the playhouse in the back yard?" or "Why did you make the statement to TL that she was a sociopath?" or "Why did you tell AH in the car all of the heinous things KC had been doing, prior to you even finding her at TL's apartment and knowing Caylee was missing?"

Until that happens, they are going to continue to spew their story and assume everyone is believing them. I think all it might take is for some of these interviewers to start holding them accountable for the statements they made prior, and what they're saying now, for them to stop trying to sell their story.

I guess we'll just have to wait for trial for that to happen.

Excellent post Marmar - you really hit the nail on the head!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[debbie0604]

Just sitting here picking apart the latest spin by the A's.
So I decided to search "red flag" because I KNOW that Cindy has mentioned that phrase in the last 9 months.

Here is what I have found in the first search of the keywords...I would be curious as to what we could sleuth in this latest presentation of "mistruths' from the A's


(snipped)

Anthony: But being the selfish grandma that I am, I wanted to see my granddaughter. So we drove around a bit, and I tried to convince her to take me to her. I just started getting an eerie feeling that something wasn't right in Casey's voice. I know my daughter pretty well.

I'm cornfused....I thought she said yesterday on CBS that KC was the mother and she was "just the grandmother" and she "trusted Caylee with KC"... or was I dreaming??

 

[Amil]

Given how forceful CA is, I've always wondered why, when Caylee was never "available" whenever Cindy called, Cindy didn't issue a simple ultimatum to KC, "Casey, if I have not spoken to Caylee by tomorrow night, I will call the police and have them hunt you down wherever you are. I will tell them you've stolen my car or been kidnapped or whatever it takes. No second chances, no more excuses. This is your final warning."

As we already know, Cindy is fully capable of dragging the police into the fray with a phony car-theft accusation when she can't get answers from KC. And as we also already know from GA's "suicide attempt" the police would have tracked KC down within two hours of Cindy's call.

If that had been done when KC stood Cindy up at Universal on July 3, the Suburban dump site wouldn't have been under water, and the same searchers who tried to search there right off the bat, including TES, would have surely recovered the remains and in a condition that would have provided much more forensic information.

Oh well, I'm just grateful the remains were discovered. I truly believed they never would be found, which would have vastly improved KC's chances of going free.

I firmly believe that Cindy was so fed-up angry with KC during the 31 days that she was glad KC was gone. This relief that she was out of the house and Cindy didn't have to put up with KC and her foul mouth had an added bonus that Cindy didn't have to babysit an active two year old. As much as she loved that baby, Caylee was a bargaining chip. Tired 50 year old women might say to their daughter "get out, I'm sick of you and don't expect me to babysit for you anymore" when what they mean is I'm not doing you any favors anymore you ingrate.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Red Flag No.8 - If you believed Caylee was alive in July WHY would you be writing suicide notes? That is a red flag to me you KNEW she was dead.

Red flag No 9 - You KNEW that KC's car had been towed but couldn't go get it due to the holiday weekend - July 4...or there was something about they couldn't pick up the notice at the post office? Those notices TELL you who the letter is from and "Tow Yard" would have been a big red flag yet you let another week go by before going to get the car?

So how did you think KC was getting to this "job" and above all what did you think she was doing with Caylee while she had no car?!!

 

[Spacegirl]

Hi Dots...while I respect your opinion I must disagree with a vengeance. I agree that George and Cindy never, in their wildest dreams, imagined that Casey was sick enough to MURDER Caylee. But, in my opinion they knew she was sick. They knew she was a liar and a thief. They knew she was deceitful and I am convinced that Cindy especially knew that it wasn't fit for Caylee to spend the night away from home with Casey. Whenever Casey tried to sleep away from the house Cindy called her and asked her to bring Caylee home. Now....why would she do that if she thought Caylee would be safe with Casey?? Furthermore, Cindy told Ryan and Lord knows who else that she "felt" Casey was a sociopath. Cindy told her friends and coworkers that she didn't trust Casey and she was thinking about seeking custody of Caylee. Cindy's words to Tony Lazzaro were that she hoped he had lots of money because Casey would rob him blind. (Or something to that effect)In my opinion she had worse things to say about her daughter than she did about Jesse Grund, the person she is now trying to throw under the bus.

So in my opinion....did Cindy think Casey was capable of murder/ Maybe not.....but she had SERIOUS concerns for the welfare and safety of her grandaughter....RED FLAGS...in my mind I think Cindy feels like she is eventually going to heal if she continues to do damage control and support her daughter in this ficticious(sp)way. Truly though she is just continuing to punish herself, Casey and her entire family. I think in her sick mind she thinks if she builds Casey back up with all this praise she will earn her mental freedom. If she could only convince the world that Casey is perfect and her family is the perfect all american family....then she will be the winner and her daughter will prevail. In reality only the truth will set her free. And I for one would be the first to applaud her if she could just for once tell the truth and give Caylee some justice.

Ya know a lot of people have done things to bring me sorrow over the course of my life. I have many personal stories that I have not yet been able to open up about here on this forum. I am a survivor of Familial rape and abuse. There were a lot of tears shed that I can't get back, innocence taken that I so deserved to have. I had hatred...unspeakable revolting disgust. I never thought I would be free from all of that pain. But 2 words from someone that REALLY meant it, someone that really wanted to be free of the pain they had caused me and MEANT it..made all the difference. .....the truth can make all the difference.

Excellent post! (my bold)

I totally agree. There were a *ton* of red flags but I really don't believe they ever thought she was actually capable of murdering little Caylee. Although the sociopath comments don't bode well, I admit, but who knows if they really meant that. I just think they knew something was wrong with her. Most people could not live with themselves if they stole money from their parents, let alone their aging grandparents.

I think the big fight was about KC stealing money, being irresponsible, spiteful and just a bad person in general (hell, I might have grabbed her by the throat as well) and maybe in CA's mind, she was giving Casey her first real dose of "tough love" by cutting her off and claiming she wouldn't be babysitting anymore. And over the weeks, she could have assumed that Casey was pissed, withholding Caylee from her to get even with her. CA's myspace message indicates just that.

IMO, the biggest mistake the A's have made is protecting Casey from retribution. If they had prosecuted her, or allowed her to be prosecuted for stealing checks, etc... it's very possible that Caylee would still be here today. Unfortunately, they have learned nothing and are still repeating that same mistake by acting like they believe her nonsense story and going around claiming that "Casey made Caylee her priority." I think they are going to regret this decision for the rest of their lives.

With that said, i think they deep down they know that KC did this. You can see it on their faces, their body language and in their choice of words. "She was afraid, I mean, that's the answer, she was afraid. I can't get into it." I think they have made the mental decision not to acknowledge it. I think it is far too painful to venture very far into.

I would like to add that she needs to pay with her life for what she did to Caylee. But somewhere along the way she needs her *advertiser censored* beat for what she has done to her parents.

 

[Valhall]

Okay, I have this question concerning at least one portion of the "no red flag" period. Why, starting on July 1st, did CA start calling KC every 2 or 3 minutes starting at midnight up into the wee hours of the morning if she wasn't "flagged" about anything? And why...if CA believed KC was in Jacksonville from the weekend of the 27th of June to July 15th was she trying to contact her at Fusion Ultra Lounge and Waterford Lakes in Orlando? And why, if CA wasn't concerned about anything, was she calling around to clubs and talking to Lee on the phone the same night he went to the Dragon Room trying to find KC?

It doesn't add up.

 

[JustJax]

JustJax, this post is absolutely priceless. A great big pat on the back to you for bringing forth this explaination from Cindy's gum chewing lips!
I love ya!

Awww, thanks! Backatcha darlin'!:blowkiss:
I have been so busy with work I have not been back to the thread since I started it and I am just working thru it now. Some great stuff here ya'll!
There are so many A'-isms that have been discussed but when I heard her say "no red flag" the first day of their latest round of spin, just had to start a thread to go back and explore all the red flags that have been flapping in the wind since way back before this case exploded in the media.

 

[Intermezzo]

Cindy had "red flag" moments
1. leading up to July 4th when, IMO, there was an increase in the amount of calls and texts to Casey, probably wanting Caylee home for July 4th
2 the July 3rd MySpace post
3.also sending Lee out to find Casey

there are more i am sure

 

[JustJax]

Given how forceful CA is, I've always wondered why, when Caylee was never "available" whenever Cindy called, Cindy didn't issue a simple ultimatum to KC, "Casey, if I have not spoken to Caylee by tomorrow night, I will call the police and have them hunt you down wherever you are. I will tell them you've stolen my car or been kidnapped or whatever it takes. No second chances, no more excuses. This is your final warning."

As we already know, Cindy is fully capable of dragging the police into the fray with a phony car-theft accusation when she can't get answers from KC. And as we also already know from GA's "suicide attempt" the police would have tracked KC down within two hours of Cindy's call.

If that had been done when KC stood Cindy up at Universal on July 3, the Suburban dump site wouldn't have been under water, and the same searchers who tried to search there right off the bat, including TES, would have surely recovered the remains and in a condition that would have provided much more forensic information.

Oh well, I'm just grateful the remains were discovered. I truly believed they never would be found, which would have vastly improved KC's chances of going free.

Considering that Cindy says she has never spent more than 2 days apart from Caylee and the A's had been trying to hunt her down tells me that the red flags were a-flyin' for them the whole 31 days that Casey had been gone from home.
In further consideration of her recorded 911 call when she said, "something's wrong, it smells like there was a dead body in the damn car!" by her own words, the red flag did factor into the situation BIGTIME.

 

[JustJax]

Hey Cindy: Huge red flag for ya: In your deposition, you said you didn't know any of Casey's friends or their numbers. OOPS. Guess you should have reviewed what YOU said and not so much Mr. Morgan's statements.

(mybold)

She said that, then a few breaths later she said that she had numbers and address for Zanny, that she in fact gave to either JB or LE. Another red flag went up for me in regards to possible purgered testimony from her.

 

[MAMABEAR]

I firmly believe that Cindy was so fed-up angry with KC during the 31 days that she was glad KC was gone. This relief that she was out of the house and Cindy didn't have to put up with KC and her foul mouth had an added bonus that Cindy didn't have to babysit an active two year old. As much as she loved that baby, Caylee was a bargaining chip. Tired 50 year old women might say to their daughter "get out, I'm sick of you and don't expect me to babysit for you anymore" when what they mean is I'm not doing you any favors anymore you ingrate.

Yup and the 22yo might say to the 50yo tired g/m------> "Fine--you want me outta here. Bye B-T-h-takin this snotnosed kid wid me and you will never see her again. She is mine and I can do what I wan wid her". Just sayin---never know.

 

[JustJax]

Yup and the 22yo might say to the 50yo tired g/m------> "Fine--you want me outta here. Bye B-T-h-takin this snotnosed kid wid me and you will never see her again. She is mine and I can do what I wan wid her". Just sayin---never know.

I am convinced that is just the way that went down. I have been in a situation with my own DD who is the same age when she moved out after I put my foot down with her about taking some resposibilty for her adult life and when she moved out she made a comment like "oh forget you even knew me." Of course she does realize now that it was time for her to grow up and be a productive adult, time to get out of high school party mode.

 

[MDdetective]

No red flags huh Cindy?
Let's see.
Red flag No. 1-You KNEW that Casey had no job and no money. How did you think she was buying diapers and food for Caylee being as it had been YOU who had bought those things for her since her birth?

Red flag No. 2-NONE of Caylee's clothing or toys were missing from the home. This alone should have been a huge red flag to you. Do you seriously expect the world to believe that you actually thought someone else had bought Caylee an entire new wardrobe and all of her needs for an entire month? Someone you had never even met...Yeah right!

Red flag No. 3-You never spoke with Caylee the entire time. You had been with this kid each and every day of her life and yet, when you were unable to speak with her at all for 31 days that was no red flag to you?

Red flag No. 4-Casey's outrageous and unlikely stories about WHY you could not speak with Caylee. You seriously want us to believe that you bought into those stories? You are seriously naive if that is the case.

Red flag No. 5-The babysitter whom you had never met, spoken to nor seen at all was the one who was presumably buying all of Caylee's needs...and you bought that? Why?

Red flag No.6-George SAW Casey on the 24th of June. She was at the house stealing from you, and yet, this was no red flag indicating that she was not where she said she was and that Caylee was not with her?

Red flag No. 7-SOMETHING made you send out Lee on July 2nd to hunt her down Cindy. If not a red flag then what was it that made you alert to finding her then? Did you or George smell something either in the garage or in the house or in the back yard and THAT is what made you send out the troops? How DID Casey "package" your granddaughter right there in your garage without you all ever smelling anything again? I am still a little fuzzy on that one.

There was nothing BUT red flags Cindy...and you know it as well as the rest of us.

Great job...I would also add that Caylee's favorite babydoll was left in the childseat of KC's car when it was towed !!!!

 

[Devon]

There was a red flag by the second night with no Caylee and no KC, as Caylee had never been out of the house for 2 nights in a row in almost 3 years.

There was a red flag the very first time that CA asked to speak to Caylee and was refused.

Maybe KC was a good mother in the early days, but CA knows that those days were long gone. CA even thought KC to be a sociopath. Red flag.

July 3rd. "My Caylee is Missing". Red flag.

Of course there were red flags, but no one thinks MURDER.

There was no reason to think the child was dead, until July 15th.
Who would think that their daughter isn't letting them talk to their grandchild because she is dead? CA thought it was one of KC's games and she was just being mean because she could be, she had Caylee.

So, yes there were unusual things happening, but who would think murder?

Snipped.

Exactly! CA is not saying that she was never concerned or suspicious about where KC and Caylee were or why KC always had an excuse for not letting her speak to Caylee. She's saying that there was no red flag between June 16 and July 15 that would make her think Caylee was dead.

Is there anyone on this forum who can honestly say that if their son or daughter started avoiding them, or giving excuses why they couldn't see a grandchild, that this would make you suspect that the child had been murdered by your son/daughter? I'll be amazed if there is!

They say hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it must be hell for the A's. They will most probably forever torture themselves with the 'what ifs' and the 'if onlys', but I don't see how any of KC's behaviour before June 16 can be said to indicate that she was a murderer-in-waiting, or that the A's should have been able to recognise this. As for June 16 and after, the tragic fact is that Caylee was already gone before the first 'red flag' had had time to unfurl.

 

[JustJax]

Snipped.

Exactly! CA is not saying that she was never concerned or suspicious about where KC and Caylee were or why KC always had an excuse for not letting her speak to Caylee. She's saying that there was no red flag between June 16 and July 15 that would make her think Caylee was dead.

Is there anyone on this forum who can honestly say that if their son or daughter started avoiding them, or giving excuses why they couldn't see a grandchild, that this would make you suspect that the child had been murdered by your son/daughter? I'll be amazed if there is!

They say hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it must be hell for the A's. They will most probably forever torture themselves with the 'what ifs' and the 'if onlys', but I don't see how any of KC's behaviour before June 16 can be said to indicate that she was a murderer-in-waiting, or that the A's should have been able to recognise this. As for June 16 and after, the tragic fact is that Caylee was already gone before the first 'red flag' had had time to unfurl.

Of course I would not expect them to jump to the conclusion that Caylee was dead during that 31 days. No parent in thier wildest dreams would feature that. But I am sure that they were concerned about where the child was sleeping, who Casey was leaving her with, and why she was never available to get on the phone when they requested. And they surely had to have noticed that Casey did not pack more of Caylee's clothes.

 

[Bluebelle]

Her use of the phrase "red flag" drives me nuts. She says something was a "red flag" instead of admitting that something occured that would confirm the evidence that KC murdered little Caylee.

She is her way of trying spinning potentially damaging information that she had access to into a seemingly innoculous little situations that really meant nothing. It is such a dismissive way of admitting (or not admitting as the case may be) that there was something terribly wrong and it irritates the HELL out of me!

I dont think I am explaining myself well here

I give an example. The smell of a "dead body in the damn car" was just a little "red flag" to CA.

To anyone else it is hardcore proof that there was something DEAD the CAR - the very same car that was last place Caylee was ever known to be! (as admitted by GA when he said that KC and Caylee left in that car to go to KC's "work")

GRRRRRRRR!

I completely agree! And another teensy weensy little red flag was that Caylee's car-seat & favorite doll were in the car that smelled like a dead body and they had found Casey but not Caylee.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Snipped.

Exactly! CA is not saying that she was never concerned or suspicious about where KC and Caylee were or why KC always had an excuse for not letting her speak to Caylee. She's saying that there was no red flag between June 16 and July 15 that would make her think Caylee was dead.

Is there anyone on this forum who can honestly say that if their son or daughter started avoiding them, or giving excuses why they couldn't see a grandchild, that this would make you suspect that the child had been murdered by your son/daughter? I'll be amazed if there is!

They say hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it must be hell for the A's. They will most probably forever torture themselves with the 'what ifs' and the 'if onlys', but I don't see how any of KC's behaviour before June 16 can be said to indicate that she was a murderer-in-waiting, or that the A's should have been able to recognise this. As for June 16 and after, the tragic fact is that Caylee was already gone before the first 'red flag' had had time to unfurl.

My bold above-

Here is a definition of red flag:

red flag
n.
1. A warning signal.
2. Something that demands attention or provokes an irritated reaction.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Cindy did say on The Early Show that she had no red flags until July 15th. That means she had no concerns or suspicions until then. Noone ever said a red flag indicates death to Cindy. And I did not hear Cindy say "that there was no red flag between June 16 and July 15 that would make her think Caylee was dead." Please provide a link if I just missed that.

Here is what she did say on The Early Show April 22, 2009:

Q – And you, Cindy, you had never gone more than 2 days without seeing Caylee, and yet, you didn’t report her missing until 30 days later. Why is that?

A - Because she was with her mom. And I believe that, you know, she was with her mom. And I’ve never had a reason not to trust Casey with Caylee. You know, Casey, um, made Caylee her priority and it was very evident anybody that ever saw Casey and Caylee together that Caylee was number one for Casey. So I never had a reason. I mean, Casey was Caylee’s, I mean, Casey’s Caylee’s mom. Caylee belonged to her. I’m just a grandmother. You know, there’s a lot of grandmothers that don’t know every, you know, everything about their grandchildren. Just because she lived with me doesn’t mean that, you know, Casey wasn’t in charge of Caylee.

Q – Even though there had been, and this is well documented, times when she had lied to you, you never once thought something is not quite right with the story she is telling us.

A – No, there was never a red flag – until July 15th.


Cindy was asked why she did not report Caylee missing in 30 days and if she ever once thought something was not quite right with Casey's story during this time. Cindy replied there was never a red flag which we all know is a complete falsehood documented by Cindy's previous words and actions. I agree it's highly unlikely a parent would make a leap of reasoning from a just not right story and extended period of time not seeing their grandchild to murder. But when Cindy says there were NO red flags until July 15th, she is absolutely lying.

 

[JustJax]

Okay, I have this question concerning at least one portion of the "no red flag" period. Why, starting on July 1st, did CA start calling KC every 2 or 3 minutes starting at midnight up into the wee hours of the morning if she wasn't "flagged" about anything? And why...if CA believed KC was in Jacksonville from the weekend of the 27th of June to July 15th was she trying to contact her at Fusion Ultra Lounge and Waterford Lakes in Orlando? And why, if CA wasn't concerned about anything, was she calling around to clubs and talking to Lee on the phone the same night he went to the Dragon Room trying to find KC?

It doesn't add up.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. If she had "no red flags" then why was all this mad activity going on to hunt Casey down?

 

[Andy H.]

No red flags huh Cindy?
Let's see.
Red flag No. 1-You KNEW that Casey had no job and no money. How did you think she was buying diapers and food for Caylee being as it had been YOU who had bought those things for her since her birth?

Red flag No. 2-NONE of Caylee's clothing or toys were missing from the home. This alone should have been a huge red flag to you. Do you seriously expect the world to believe that you actually thought someone else had bought Caylee an entire new wardrobe and all of her needs for an entire month? Someone you had never even met...Yeah right!

Red flag No. 3-You never spoke with Caylee the entire time. You had been with this kid each and every day of her life and yet, when you were unable to speak with her at all for 31 days that was no red flag to you?

Red flag No. 4-Casey's outrageous and unlikely stories about WHY you could not speak with Caylee. You seriously want us to believe that you bought into those stories? You are seriously naive if that is the case.

Red flag No. 5-The babysitter whom you had never met, spoken to nor seen at all was the one who was presumably buying all of Caylee's needs...and you bought that? Why?

Red flag No.6-George SAW Casey on the 24th of June. She was at the house stealing from you, and yet, this was no red flag indicating that she was not where she said she was and that Caylee was not with her?

Red flag No. 7-SOMETHING made you send out Lee on July 2nd to hunt her down Cindy. If not a red flag then what was it that made you alert to finding her then? Did you or George smell something either in the garage or in the house or in the back yard and THAT is what made you send out the troops? How DID Casey "package" your granddaughter right there in your garage without you all ever smelling anything again? I am still a little fuzzy on that one.

There was nothing BUT red flags Cindy...and you know it as well as the rest of us.

Plus--if she had phone numbers for this Zanny as she claims, did she try to call them? if she did, what did she find on the line?