Norway Norway - Oslo, WhtFem 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

[Marantz4250b]

She did not pay for the stay at all. That's one of the most important details of the case.

She did. She paid when she checked in. There was no card left on file though and she'd ordered room service and had been using the mini-bar which is why they were messaging her to come to reception to leave a card.

I don't know how common it would be in 1995 that you could check-in without a card but it's a total no-no today. In fact, I've just had that very problem this afternoon; I booked a room last week on booking.com for a friend who was travelling down from Scotland. When she tried to check-in I got a message from her saying The room isn't paid for. My reply was, yes it is as I put it on my card. Turns out it wasn't and that you had to pay at the property. They wouldn't even take my card over the phone for payment and wanted the physical card to swipe. This despite the fact that I checked the "I'm booking or someone else" box on the website and provided my card details.

Perhaps things were different back then and in a different country but this was a very high-class establishment and would have been run by the book. This is why I still think that she was allowed to check-in without ID or leaving a card. She didn't simply slide through cracks.

 

[JuicyLucy]

She did. She paid when she checked in. There was no card left on file though and she'd ordered room service and had been using the mini-bar which is why they were messaging her to come to reception to leave a card.

I don't know how common it would be in 1995 that you could check-in without a card but it's a total no-no today. In fact, I've just had that very problem this afternoon; I booked a room last week on booking.com for a friend who was travelling down from Scotland. When she tried to check-in I got a message from her saying The room isn't paid for. My reply was, yes it is as I put it on my card. Turns out it wasn't and that you had to pay at the property. They wouldn't even take my card over the phone for payment and wanted the physical card to swipe. This despite the fact that I checked the "I'm booking or someone else" box on the website and provided my card details.

Perhaps things were different back then and in a different country but this was a very high-class establishment and would have been run by the book. This is why I still think that she was allowed to check-in without ID or leaving a card. She didn't simply slide through cracks.

I think it was different then, though. I was travelling a lot in Europe at that kind of time and, because everywhere had its own currency then still, I had different wallets for different countries and paid by cash almost everywhere.

I don't seem to remember ID was much of a thing either - because of Schengen, you could easily end up spending the night in a different country from where you'd started the day without necessarily planning to. People in Europe were more likely to carry ID reflexively than people in the US or UK, because identity cards were a hangover from the war, but that was less true of younger people. Norway might have been different in that respect though, because of not being in Schengen/the EU. I am sure it wasn't standard practice in the way it is today, though, to present passports and plastic. And there was more trust because there was less organised crime (or less awareness of it), so you would have to fill out registration cards but no one checked the information you put on them - just as we've seen here, in fact. It was just a more freestyle time.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Also, not that this applies to Oslo particularly, but because it was before the Euro and everywhere had its own currency, some currencies were harder than others and you could negotiate better hotel prices with them. That was particularly true the further east you went, where the US dollar was still king, followed by the deutschemark and sterling. That sort of negotiation only works with cash.

It really was a different era. There was no awareness of money laundering, for example. Even the financial institutions in the EU had no money laundering obligations until 1994. I think she could quite easily have paid in cash and not been unusual, even in a hotel of that calibre. But it's just my opinion/recollection. It doesn't mean there wasn't some irregularity on the front desk when she checked in.

 

[Leigy]

I think we should also keep in mind that we have no proof that ‘Jennifer’ DIDN’T present an ID at the front desk. A clerk could easily misremember that detail.

However, in many places the reason they want an ID is to compare it to the credit card to make sure it isn’t stolen. Since Jennifer paid in cash, there is less of a reason for them to insist on her showing them an ID.

 

[azure]

She did. She paid when she checked in. There was no card left on file though and she'd ordered room service and had been using the mini-bar which is why they were messaging her to come to reception to leave a card.

I don't know how common it would be in 1995 that you could check-in without a card but it's a total no-no today. In fact, I've just had that very problem this afternoon; I booked a room last week on booking.com for a friend who was travelling down from Scotland. When she tried to check-in I got a message from her saying The room isn't paid for. My reply was, yes it is as I put it on my card. Turns out it wasn't and that you had to pay at the property. They wouldn't even take my card over the phone for payment and wanted the physical card to swipe. This despite the fact that I checked the "I'm booking or someone else" box on the website and provided my card details.

Perhaps things were different back then and in a different country but this was a very high-class establishment and would have been run by the book. This is why I still think that she was allowed to check-in without ID or leaving a card. She didn't simply slide through cracks.

Boy do I feel stupid. I have followed this case for years and just watched the UM episode about it and I have never noticed that detail, and would have in fact sworn up and down she didn't pay. Having a true crime Mandela Effect moment right now!

 

[JuicyLucy]

Boy do I feel stupid. I have followed this case for years and just watched the UM episode about it and I have never noticed that detail, and would have in fact sworn up and down she didn't pay. Having a true crime Mandela Effect moment right now!

In fairness, accounts vary, or gloss over it, so I think a lot of writers about the case are unsure themselves.

 

[Marantz4250b]

In fairness, accounts vary, or gloss over it, so I think a lot of writers about the case are unsure themselves.

This is the problem. This is more than two and half decades old now. Memories fade or get unintentionally altered and accounts vary down the line of being repeated by various people. It's not usually anything sinister, it's jut human nature.

 

[Mireille]

Paying cash in 90s,even start of 00s wasn't that unusual. People would often take money/exchanged currency with them cause withdrawals in other countries were expensive. As was using your debit card(they would charge you x amount ecerytime you used it somewhere abroad). So many used large amounts of cash when abroad.

Many also saved up money in cash rather than banks, for the explicit purpose of vacation and having some extra cash around 'just in case'.

I honestly thought it was that she was either having trouble paying with the currency she had at hand (that they would not accept it) or was exchanging it and paying by cash.

 

[JuicyLucy]

This is the problem. This is more than two and half decades old now. Memories fade or get unintentionally altered and accounts vary down the line of being repeated by various people. It's not usually anything sinister, it's jut human nature.

Well, it's one problem anyway.

The other is that there was a dead woman with a gun in a locked hotel room with half her clothes missing.

 

[Toodles5000]

Paying cash in 90s,even start of 00s wasn't that unusual. People would often take money/exchanged currency with them cause withdrawals in other countries were expensive. As was using your debit card(they would charge you x amount ecerytime you used it somewhere abroad). So many used large amounts of cash when abroad.

Many also saved up money in cash rather than banks, for the explicit purpose of vacation and having some extra cash around 'just in case'.

I honestly thought it was that she was either having trouble paying with the currency she had at hand (that they would not accept it) or was exchanging it and paying by cash.

I agree - I backpacked through Europe in 1995/1996 and every country we visited, the first thing we did was take a traveler's check to a bank or currency exchange and get cash in that country's currency. We stayed in hostels, pensions and hotels and I don't remember EVER using a credit card. Upon check-in, we had to provide our passports and always paid in cash.

 

[Leigy]

Have the investigators gotten permission to run her DNA yet?

 

[JuicyLucy]

Have the investigators gotten permission to run her DNA yet?

They have a DNA profile, but, with no reference sample with which to compare it, I guess it's now a matter of waiting for a random hit from the coincidental addition of a close relative to the database, or for the law regarding forensic genealogy to change in the jurisdiction. I imagine the former is quite unlikely and the latter at least a decade away, if not more.

 

[fridaybaker]

I'm gonna link to that pic again, as it was glitchy on the last post:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/iden-artboard_1-png.293114/

I apologize if this has been discussed, but can anyone tell me if other countries in Europe make their "1's" and *"7's" like German's do (and like Jennifer did upon writing her address.).

 

[chaz]

Paying cash in 90s,even start of 00s wasn't that unusual. People would often take money/exchanged currency with them cause withdrawals in other countries were expensive. As was using your debit card(they would charge you x amount ecerytime you used it somewhere abroad). So many used large amounts of cash when abroad.

Many also saved up money in cash rather than banks, for the explicit purpose of vacation and having some extra cash around 'just in case'.

I honestly thought it was that she was either having trouble paying with the currency she had at hand (that they would not accept it) or was exchanging it and paying by cash.

Many countries in Europe accepted German Marks when paying cash in touristic places.

I apologize if this has been discussed, but can anyone tell me if other countries in Europe make their "1's" and *"7's" like German's do (and like Jennifer did upon writing her address.).

Yes, in the Netherlands.

 

[Leigy]

They have a DNA profile, but, with no reference sample with which to compare it, I guess it's now a matter of waiting for a random hit from the coincidental addition of a close relative to the database, or for the law regarding forensic genealogy to change in the jurisdiction. I imagine the former is quite unlikely and the latter at least a decade away, if not more.

Someone said that they were applying to get an exception to run her DNA through a genealogy database. I think it was the Norwegian investigator for the case who mentioned it a few months ago. I am asking if there is any update on that.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Someone said that they were applying to get an exception to run her DNA through a genealogy database. I think it was the Norwegian investigator for the case who mentioned it a few months ago. I am asking if there is any update on that.

I would be astonished if they would make any exception ahead of general legislative change, which, as I say, I am sure is at least a decade away in Europe if not more. Even more astonished if such an exception were made for an unidentified deceased victim whose death was, rightly or wrongly, ruled a suicide. There might be a case to be made if the DNA of a suspect in an ongoing serial killing or abduction enquiry was what was under discussion, or conceivably if the UID was a child, but not otherwise, imho.

 

[PatLaurel]

This morning i decided to give French a try and searched on Google for "femme disparue 1995" and i came across a painting by the Belgian artist Didier Mahieu named "Hannah la femme disparue" painted in 1995.
Since i first saw the painting i can't stop wondering who DM's muse was. I see some resemblances between JF and the woman depicted in the painting... but maybe it's just me.

Unfortunately there's not much info about DM, only that he was born in 1961 in a village not too far from Verlaine.

Didier MAHIEU (né en 1961)

Let me know what you think...

MOO JMO

 

[Leigy]

<modsnip>

The rendering of the woman does bare a resemblance, and it is a gorgeous piece of artwork. I love the heavy shadows on the face. This ‘Hannah’ woman does share a lot of visual similarities to ‘Jennifer.’ This appears to be a study (could be a quick 15 minute sketch) for a planned painting. My mother is an impressionist painter and it is very common to swatch paint colors you might use under a sketch like this., where the sketch can still be easily cropped and later sold or auctioned on its own.

Did Mahieu Didier make a painted portrait of this woman? Or just the sketch? Maybe the model disappeared before he could start? Or maybe it is in the possession of a family who commissioned the piece?

 

[PatLaurel]

<modsnip>

The rendering of the woman does bare a resemblance, and it is a gorgeous piece of artwork. I love the heavy shadows on the face. This ‘Hannah’ woman does share a lot of visual similarities to ‘Jennifer.’ This appears to be a study (could be a quick 15 minute sketch) for a planned painting. My mother is an impressionist painter and it is very common to swatch paint colors you might use under a sketch like this., where the sketch can still be easily cropped and later sold or auctioned on its own.

Did Mahieu Didier make a painted portrait of this woman? Or just the sketch? Maybe the model disappeared before he could start? Or maybe it is in the possession of a family who commissioned the piece?

BBM

That's what i'm trying to find out.

And... My apologies for referring to the “Crayon et gouache sur papier dessin” as an already framed wall art… An object (painting).
I hope i have not offended the artist or the art lovers with my lack of art knowledge. I will use the correct painting techniques and terminology in the future.
MOO JMO

 

[JuicyLucy]

This morning i decided to give French a try and searched on Google for "femme disparue 1995" and i came across a painting by the Belgian artist Didier Mahieu named "Hannah la femme disparue" painted in 1995.
Since i first saw the painting i can't stop wondering who DM's muse was. I see some resemblances between JF and the woman depicted in the painting... but maybe it's just me.

Unfortunately there's not much info about DM, only that he was born in 1961 in a village not too far from Verlaine.

Didier MAHIEU (né en 1961)

Let me know what you think...

MOO JMO

The Verlaine connection is potentially very intriguing. I can't remember where we were up to with establishing any genuine connection between JF and Verlaine. If you buy into the idea that she was a spy or an assassin, it's possible she spent time there in order to establish a legend. If he was born in 1961, then he was about 10 years older than her, i.e. the same generation, and they might easily have crossed paths if she did.

I think there's a distinct resemblance to the published artist's impressions of the dead woman, although how closely those resemble the real JF is something we can't really know. There's something about the line of the nostrils, a slight hauteur, that is common to them both. There's also something a bit wrong with the profile in this sketch, particularly around the nose, as if the subject moved while it was being done and the lines needed to be reworked, and it was never quite finished satisfactorily. It makes me wonder if it was not a professional sitter but someone observed in a public place.

Very curious. There's a reasonable chance the artist is still alive. Maybe you could try to track him down and see if he remembers? The auction house might be able to help.