NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #4

[Gooddeeds]

health professional would also tell you it’s a fool’s errand to try and diagnose anything from a handful of vague and contradictory third-person accounts.[/QUOTE]
*******************************


-Therefore “An UNDIAGNOSED mental illness” seems like a loosely broad termed motive to put on record...until further review (whatever that may entail)??

*Joe Smith passed away from natural causes, versus Joe Smith passed away from “UN” natural causes.

Steven Paddock, a DIAGNOSED ——— killed himself after killing 58 others and injuring 500” versus “Steven Paddock who had an UNDIAGNOSED mental illness killed himself after killing 58...and injuring...

*I’m simply experimenting in fictional literary here.

 

[sorrell skye]

At some point in time we might need to take a look at why we are the most violent industrialized nation on the planet.

We obviously are doing something wrong

According to a 2010 study published by the American Journal of Medicine, among high-income nations, the U.S. had the highest firearm homicide rate per capita in the world (3.6 per 100,000).

When we look at non-firearm homicide rates (among high-income nations):

1. The Czech Republic had 2.4 per 100,000

2. The United States had 1.7 per 100,000

3. Finland is a close 3rd with 1.6 per 100,000

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

When we look at total homicide rates among high-income nations, the U.S. was number one in the 2010 study (with more than double the homicide rate of the 2nd country):

1. United States: 5.3 per 100,000

2. The Czech Republic: 2.6 per 100,000

3. Finland: 1.9 per 100,000

If one were to extrapolate the findings of this study, it appears that firearms are the deciding factor in total homicide rates amongst high-income countries.

 

[m00c0w]

New presser at 3:00 local time, according to LVMPD twitter. I'm not holding my breath for anything new or interesting.

 

[Betty P]

Who is diagnosing? I linked you to evidenced based research showing a strong prevalence of PD in persons with pathological gambling as part of the ongoing discussion. I don't remember specifically diagnosing anybody. .

Also, for the record , I am a licensed mental health professional. I also do not think you have to be one to understand that there is a component of mental illness in ALL of these horrific attacks. They lack any and all empathy or compassion for others amongst other pathology in human behavior.

With that being said, I am going to contact Admin to become a verified professional on this board now that I have made the statement.

That sounds great! Your posts are very helpful. My psych degrees were a few decades ago, so I'm rusty, especially on the newer stuff dealing with personality disorders, their prognosis and treatment. Without doubt, most criminals that find their ways into this forum have issues with mental illness.

 

[IQuestion]

I just heard on the Fox News Sirius simulcast that the FBI interviewed the weird brother (as opposed to the criminal brother) for several hours this weekend. He did not give any indications as to what the questions were about, but said he doesn’t feel he’s a suspect. Like he’d say if he did, though...

OMG!!! I Spit my coffee onto the screen of my laptop. M00COW could you give me a heads up before you post about the "weird brother" as opposed to the "criminal brother." ??....Oh these descriptions (code words of their own) actually make it easier to figure out who is who!...The SP brother is easier to identify "Just A Guy.!!!!" description. Geez what shall we call the one in Tucson......the one who is quiet, the one without the lengthy arrest record, ..... he may actually be the one who can give the most objective/unbiased description of SP's personality. Distinct individuals, like the directions on a weather vane, N, S, E & W....geographically as well.
...but dhaaaang I am so impressed with the 4 officers who entered the 32nd floor as an ad hoc Delta Force and trusting each other's instincts. Having never trained "together" and yet complimenting and protecting each other's progress into a modern aerie stocked with the weapons of a raging monster.... ONLY THE BRAVEST OF THE BRAVE
I further understood their mission as I listened to Sheriff Lombardo, "our goal it to stop the shooter first!" MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!

 

[m00c0w]

According to a 2010 study published by the American Journal of Medicine, among high-income nations, the U.S. had the highest firearm homicide rate per capita in the world (3.6 per 100,000).

When we look at non-firearm homicide rates (among high-income nations):

1. The Czech Republic had 2.4 per 100,000

2. The United States had 1.7 per 100,000

3. Finland is a close 3rd with 1.6 per 100,000

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

When we look at total homicide rates among high-income nations, the U.S. was number one in the 2010 study (with more than double the homicide rate of the 2nd country):

1. United States: 5.3 per 100,000

2. The Czech Republic: 2.6 per 100,000

3. Finland: 1.9 per 100,000

If one were to extrapolate the findings of this study, it appears that firearms are the deciding factor in total homicide rates amongst high-income countries.

Their methodology of country-picking is certainly interesting. With the OECD member designator, they managed to leave out a whole bunch of countries that are considered high-income by the World Bank, but have much higher homicide rates than the US.

 

[Spice]

You literally just said:

SP was a gambling ADDICT​

And then heavily implied he has a cluster B personality disorder, which you've also done several times in this thread based solely on the fact that he gambled a lot.

Note, I also never said you diagnosed anyone. But you are throwing many ideas out there that may be latched onto by others when we really have no idea of what was going on in this guy's head. I have seen several people claim he probably had this or that. I guess my post is better viewed as a caveat to yours rather than opposition to it.

Yes, I did say he was a gambling addict. We would have to be headless to think otherwise. He lived, slept, ate, gambling on a constant basis. According to those that knew him he was a "professional gambler "and "lived to gamble". If I smoke cigarettes every day, struggled to quit, despite negative consequences on my health and life would you say that I have a problem with nicotine dependence?

What I didn't do, was diagnose him in accordance to his motive or definitively diagnose him with specificity. What I did do was link peer reviewed literature showing the well known prevalence of PD and Pathological Gambling that is common knowledge in mental health settings and amongst professionals. This was linked because as I am engaging in the same discussion as everyone else, and see that some are absolutely adamant that this man could not have had any mental illness whatsoever, the literature was provided to add to the discussion of the possibility of such pathology. It is the connection to what we DO know about him (pathological gambling) to what we DON'T definitively know.

I am not simply or randomly "throwing" ideas out. I am providing linked peer reviewed professional literature to add to the ongoing discussion. I think that is important to clarify.

DSM-V Criteria is here in relation to the severity of his gambling. People can use it to guide their own thoughts throughout the discussion.

DSM-5 Diagnostic Criteria: Gambling Disorder

Persistent and recurrent problematic gambling behavior leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as indicated by the individual exhibiting four (or more) of the following in a 12-month period:
Needs to gamble with increasing amounts of money in order to achieve the desired excitement.
Is restless or irritable when attempting to cut down or stop gambling.
Has made repeated unsuccessful efforts to control, cut back, or stop gambling.
Is often preoccupied with gambling (e.g., having persistent thoughts of reliving past gambling experiences, handicapping or planning the next venture, thinking of ways to get money with which to gamble).
Often gambles when feeling distressed (e.g., helpless, guilty, anxious, depressed).
After losing money gambling, often returns another day to get even (“chasing” one’s losses).
Lies to conceal the extent of involvement with gambling.
Has jeopardized or lost a significant relationship, job, or educational or career opportunity because of gambling.
Relies on others to provide money to relieve desperate financial situations caused by gambling.
The gambling behavior is not better explained by a manic episode.
Specify if:
Episodic: Meeting diagnostic criteria at more than one time point, with symptoms subsiding between periods of gambling disorder for at least several months.
Persistent: Experiencing continuous symptoms, to meet diagnostic criteria for multiple years.

Specify if:
In early remission: After full criteria for gambling disorder were previously met, none of the criteria for gambling disorder have been met for at least 3 months but for less than 12 months.
In sustained remission: After full criteria for gambling disorder were previously met, none of the criteria for gambling disorder have been met during a period of 12 months or longer.

Specify current severity:
Mild: 4–5 criteria met.
Moderate: 6–7 criteria met.
Severe: 8–9 criteria met.

https://www.problemgambling.ca/EN/ResourcesForProfessionals/Pages/DSM5CriteriaGamblingDisorder.aspx

 

[sorrell skye]

Their methodology of country-picking is certainly interesting. With the OECD member designator, they managed to leave out a whole bunch of countries that are considered high-income by the World Bank, but have much higher homicide rates than the US.

You've piqued my curiosity. I always want to be as factual as possible. Which high-income nations have higher homicide rates than the ones listed in the 2010 study by the American Journal of Medicine?

I sincerely would like to know.

 

[m00c0w]

OMG!!! I Spit my coffee onto the screen of my laptop. M00COW could you give me a heads up before you post about the "weird brother" as opposed to the "criminal brother." ??....Oh these descriptions (code words of their own) actually make it easier to figure out who is who!...The SP brother is easier to identify "Just A Guy.!!!!" description. Geez what shall we call the one in Tucson......the one who is quiet, the one without the lengthy arrest record, ..... he may actually be the one who can give the most objective/unbiased description of SP's personality. Distinct individuals, like the directions on a weather vane, N, S, E & W....geographically as well.
...but dhaaaang I am so impressed with the 4 officers who entered the 32nd floor as an ad hoc Delta Force and trusting each other's instincts. Having never trained "together" and yet complimenting and protecting each other's progress into a modern aerie stocked with the weapons of a raging monster.... ONLY THE BRAVEST OF THE BRAVE
I further understood their mission as I listened to Sheriff Lombardo, "our goal it to stop the shooter first!" MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!

lol, I often refer to the shooter as just the shooter. I have no interest in saying the names of the criminals that engage in these activities. In a similar vein, I don't feel it's worth the space that would be used in my brain to remember his family tree, so I go with what I recall first. :biggrin:

 

[m00c0w]

Yes, I did say he was a gambling addict. We would have to be headless to think otherwise. He lived, slept, ate, gambling on a constant basis. According to those that knew him he was a "professional gambler "and "lived to gamble". If I smoke cigarettes every day, struggled to quit, despite negative consequences on my health and life would you say that I have a problem with nicotine dependence?

What I didn't do, was diagnose him in accordance to his motive or definitively diagnose him with specificity. What I did do was link peer reviewed literature showing the well known prevalence of PD and Pathological Gambling that is common knowledge in mental health settings and amongst professionals. This was linked because as I am engaging in the same discussion as everyone else, and see that some are absolutely adamant that this man could not have had any mental illness whatsoever, the literature was provided to add to the discussion of the possibility of such pathology. It is the connection to what we DO know about him (pathological gambling) to what we DON'T definitively know.

I am not simply or randomly "throwing" ideas out. I am providing linked peer reviewed professional literature to add to the ongoing discussion. I think that is important to clarify.

DSM-V Criteria is here in relation to the severity of his gambling. People can use it to guide their own thoughts throughout the discussion.



https://www.problemgambling.ca/EN/ResourcesForProfessionals/Pages/DSM5CriteriaGamblingDisorder.aspx

Did his gambling cause distress? Dysfunction? Was it dangerous?

In reality, we know almost nothing about his gambling habit other than he did it a lot. That, in and of itself, does not make someone an addict. You make an allegory to smoking and nicotine. There are no indications that he had any issues not gambling for periods of time, that he couldn't give up gambling if he so chose to do so, or that he was truly "addicted" in any way, other than he spent a lot of time at casinos, sometimes. Sometimes he went on month-long trips. It may have just been something he was good at and enjoyed (analyzing numbers and probability with absolutely no social interaction), and made him feel comfortable while also earning money. That would point to a disorder besides a gambling addiction... We just don't know enough to say for certain what was going on in his life, and you certainly don't have to be "headless" to have reservations about making judgements with what little information we have.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, I did say he was a gambling addict. We would have to be headless to think otherwise. He lived, slept, ate, gambling on a constant basis. According to those that knew him he was a "professional gambler "and "lived to gamble". If I smoke cigarettes every day, struggled to quit, despite negative consequences on my health and life would you say that I have a problem with nicotine dependence?

What I didn't do, was diagnose him in accordance to his motive or definitively diagnose him with specificity. What I did do was link peer reviewed literature showing the well known prevalence of PD and Pathological Gambling that is common knowledge in mental health settings and amongst professionals. This was linked because as I am engaging in the same discussion as everyone else, and see that some are absolutely adamant that this man could not have had any mental illness whatsoever, the literature was provided to add to the discussion of the possibility of such pathology. It is the connection to what we DO know about him (pathological gambling) to what we DON'T definitively know.

I am not simply or randomly "throwing" ideas out. I am providing linked peer reviewed professional literature to add to the ongoing discussion. I think that is important to clarify.

DSM-V Criteria is here in relation to the severity of his gambling. People can use it to guide their own thoughts throughout the discussion.



https://www.problemgambling.ca/EN/ResourcesForProfessionals/Pages/DSM5CriteriaGamblingDisorder.aspx

If the shooter is not a gambling addict, I don't know who is.

 

[katydid23]

Did his gambling cause distress? Dysfunction? Was it dangerous?

In reality, we know almost nothing about his gambling habit other than he did it a lot. That, in and of itself, does not make someone an addict. You make an allegory to smoking and nicotine. There are no indications that he had any issues not gambling for periods of time, that he couldn't give up gambling if he so chose to do so, or that he was truly "addicted" in any way, other than he spent a lot of time at casinos, sometimes. Sometimes he went on month-long trips. It may have just been something he was good at and enjoyed (analyzing numbers and probability with absolutely no social interaction), and made him feel comfortable while also earning money. That would point to a disorder besides a gambling addiction... We just don't know enough to say for certain what was going on in his life, and you certainly don't have to be "headless" to have reservations about making judgements with what little information we have.

Those are good points. I never thought about it in that way.

For mnost gamblers it becomes dangerous because they lose more than they win. But if he had a way to keep a cash flow going, then maybe it was not a problem in his life. IDK

 

[Gardenista]

Interview with the people who he called security on for loud music

http://ktla.com/2017/10/09/couple-s...-their-music-hours-before-las-vegas-shooting/

 

[IQuestion]

SPICE and M00C0W You two are giving me mental whiplash!! Please don't take offense....I just learn so much reading the differing opinions. We are all better for having read your posts. Thank you.

 

[Spice]

Did his gambling cause distress? Dysfunction? Was it dangerous?

In reality, we know almost nothing about his gambling habit other than he did it a lot. That, in and of itself, does not make someone an addict. You make an allegory to smoking and nicotine. There are no indications that he had any issues not gambling for periods of time, that he couldn't give up gambling if he so chose to do so, or that he was truly "addicted" in any way, other than he spent a lot of time at casinos, sometimes. Sometimes he went on month-long trips. It may have just been something he was good at and enjoyed (analyzing numbers and probability with absolutely no social interaction), and made him feel comfortable while also earning money. That would point to a disorder besides a gambling addiction... We just don't know enough to say for certain what was going on in his life, and you certainly don't have to be "headless" to have reservations about making judgements with what little information we have.

Good points. We don't know if he ever "tried to quit", I'm not sure if he had to consider that because he was good at analyzing numbers and had the monetary means, which could in and of itself become a vicious cycle.

Would you say that he gambled in moderation? That it was a "healthy" hobby for him? Would you say that it ever interfered with his sleep hygiene? (IE gambling 14 hours straight) Do you think sleep deprivation has an effect on your mental health? Would that kind of sustained gambling on a regular basis appear compulsive to you? Do you think it has anything to do with learned behavior that is found in addiction as far as reward and dopamine levels in the brain? Would you say that the amount of gambling a person does in and of itself can speak to impulsivity? Although we all are different and require different levels of interaction, would you say that human beings are social and wired for social interaction and without out it we literally fail to thrive and can die? Would you say that meticulously planning and shooting at a crowd of 22,000 innocent people to kill as many as possible while utilizing your math skills because you are "good with numbers" does not reflect personality pathology and an absolute lack of empathy and compassion for others? Would you say that being actively suicidal and homicidal with intent and plan does not indicate distress, dysfunction , or dangerous pathological behavior and imminent risk to self or others? Do you think his choice of the scene of this massacre (A casino hotel ) both held subconscious meaning for him as well as convenience of opportunity / familiarity?

 

[m00c0w]

Good points. We don't know if he ever "tried to quit", I'm not sure if he had to consider that because he was good at analyzing numbers and had the monetary means, which could in and of itself become a vicious cycle.

Would you say that he gambled in moderation? That it was a "healthy" hobby for him? Would you say that it ever interfered with his sleep hygiene? (IE gambling 14 hours straight) Do you think sleep deprivation has an effect on your mental health? Would that kind of sustained gambling on a regular basis appear compulsive to you? Do you think it has anything to do with learned behavior that is found in addiction as far as reward and dopamine levels in the brain? Would you say that the amount of gambling a person does in and of itself can speak to impulsivity? Although we all are different and require different levels of interaction, would you say that human beings are social and wired for social interaction and without out it we literally fail to thrive and can die? Would you say that meticulously planning and shooting at a crowd of 22,000 innocent people to kill as many as possible while utilizing your math skills because you are "good with numbers" does not reflect personality pathology and an absolute lack of empathy and compassion for others? Would you say that being actively suicidal and homicidal with intent and plan does not indicate distress, dysfunction , or dangerous pathological behavior and imminent risk to self or others? Do you think his choice of the scene of this massacre (A casino hotel ) both held subconscious meaning for him as well as convenience of opportunity / familiarity?

I would say that without an interview with this person, or at least some personal dialogue with them, I wouldn’t make any assessment about how their activities really affected their life. Everyone is different, and people thrive in different situations. I certainly couldn’t paint any sort of mental picture of this person from what little we know right now. The possible motives range from a dangerous psychopath to an otherwise relatively normal smart individual who was radicalized in the last year. That’s a large range to cover.

 

[HMSHood]

What about their mother ? Isn’t she alive and in Florida? I’m shocked that reporters haven’t found her and interviewed her- especially because she can speak on his childhood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wondering about that too.

 

[IQuestion]

Moving so fast....how did I miss this?
LAS VEGAS — The brother of a man who killed dozens of people at a Las Vegas country music festival is in town to help investigators figure out the shooter’s motives and to retrieve the body.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reports that Eric Paddock arrived in town Saturday for hours of interviews with FBI agents, a police detective, a profiler and a psychologist.
http://fox6now.com/2017/10/09/steph...egas-for-interviews-in-wake-of-mass-shooting/

 

[Gardenista]

Presser starting now

https://www.facebook.com/foxcarolinanews/videos/10155797354149166/

 

[jjenny]

He is a different kind of loner. He was married twice and it is stated that he gets along with his ex wives.

The woman who managed his property thinks he was fabulous. He has a gf who everyone thinks is sweet.

It does not appear he has any buddies. At least any who are willing to come forward.

There is a possible prostitute that said he loved violent sex.

His job was the gambling macihines. Lots of people spend hours at their jobs.

Sounds like no friends.

I wonder what people on cruises thought of him. Those are quite close quarters. When cruise ships are in port, there is no gambling is there? Or did he only go to countries where there is gambling. Do they do gambling all night on cruise ships? What did he do if not gambling?

If you were his buddy, would you want to come forward?