NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #4

[human]

BBM

The parachute is in case of emergencies and is manually deployed. I'm not sure what bearing that has on intentionally crashing a plane.

http://cirrusaircraft.com/innovation/airframe-parachute/

It doesn’t go off by itself in case of a crash situation?

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Hmmmmmm. People kill people, true. Can't argue with that!

Not sure, though, that SP would have caused quite so much carnage if he had waded into that crowd of 20,000 people wielding a pair of nunchucks. And I 100% agree with your plea on finding ways to identify potentially homicidal people before they attempt to commit mass murder.

OkieChange, well thanks for agreeing with part of it.

I doubt very much the guy would have intended so much mayhem with nunchucks. I don't think your giving this guy enough credit for his intelligence level. This guy was not stupid whatsoever. He would have known that nunchucks wouldn't get him anywhere.

After all he did have explosives in his car. If he didn't have the guns, he may have caused much more carnage using the explosives. THANK GOD he didn't.

My whole point is~~it didn't have to be guns. It could have been explosives, it could have been any of a million ways a criminal decides he can cause the most amount of deaths.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

At some point in time we might need to take a look at why we are the most violent industrialized nation on the planet.

We obviously are doing something wrong

Yes, yes, yes!!! My whole point!!

 

[human]

air show crashes

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/air-show-disasters-5-deadliest-in-history-1.3201822

 

[Mustang Sally]

I do not understand the mental illness part. We all do stuff we are not supposed to do. I kmow this to be a fact and I do not need a link cuz no one is perfect.

Some of us do more bad stuff than others. Are we all mentally ill because I think almost all people have things that have happened in their lives.

I cannot believe that SP did not know what he was doing was wrong, otherwise,,he would have bragged about his fabulous plan to others.Rather, he kept it secret and taped his fabulous math calculations so,LE and the world would see how brilliant he was.

He was totally self absorbed and he grew more and more in love with himself.

Some people kill their children because they believe they are saving from the big,bad world.

I,think,SP was showing the world how superior he was. Is that mentally ill?

I think,he had the choice of kmowing right from wrong and did not care. It is all about him

I Think you have figured SP figured out! IMHO the sorry piece of chit and is basically is a Narcissistic Egomaniac!

I also feel like he was on a Fantasy Hunting Trip! He was no longer getting a mental high from his gambling wins or hunting trips to Alaska!
.
Therefore, he became obsessed with the power and high that he could achieve by using his gun sight to watch himself shoot and kill innocent humans!

He reminds me of the serial killer Gary Michael Hilton whose idolized the movie about hunting humans in the Alaskan forest!

I sure hope that the Law Enforcement guys were reading here! They might learn something from our opinions!

God Bless the families of the 58 new Angels and the 527 injured at the Highway 91 Concert!

 

[Footwarrior]

The Las Vegas shooter no longer had either an aircraft or a valid pilot's license. The later would be required to rent a plane.

That makes this line of speculation a little moot.

 

[Whiteorchids]

According to his deposition he played video poker 14 hrs a day everyday at night and slept all day. I don't know about you but staring at a boring poker machine 14 hrs day everyday with not much social interaction probably drove him insane. Reminds me of Jack Nicholson in the shining when he was typing his manuscript the same sentence over and over about Johnny being a dull boy doing the same thing day after day.

 

[kittythehare]

******************************************

-IMO they are dancing around this.

if they took their time because there was no more shooting, what does that look like?
what were they discussing at that point?
were they strategically placed with guns drawn?
when they entered and saw him did they go check all the areas where others could be?
if SP was already dead when they got there how did they hear his last 1 or 2 gunshots?

-there are contradictory reports with holes in each one.

REMEMBER- this had to be treated as a terrorist attack.
They, rightly, expected booby-traps..
They, rightly, expected lifts to be booby trapped
They, rightly, expected more than a single assassin.

I use 'rightly' in sense of protocols for all suspected terrorist attacks.

YES- it was approx 70 minutes before they located him, but he was using highly skilled sniper tactics- gunfire was not visible from the windows because he had calculated the distance reqd to make the fire invisible.
And yes, as per 60 minutes report, they checked out the entire suite of rooms upon entry and after having discovered his body.
Also they had seen a 'black object' on the trolley outside his room and they had seen the wires, they had every reason to suppose it was a bomb.
There are millions of contradictory reports but they dont come from reputable sources.
I have never seen the internet so mad/insane.
I agree with OceanBlue eyes theory- there is no proof of mental illness and its wrong to diagnose without evidence.. it disrespects those who are genuinely mentally ill.
Sure world needs reasons, but reasons without evidence are mere speculation.
The truth may be that there was no reason, no mental illness, no revenge agenda, nothing at all..
We must start to try to assimilate that rather than grasping at straws.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Agree - I think when the FBI got down there and up and running they tried to clear up stuff

Sheriff intially clearly made it sound as if LE had engaged subject -- which is not at all what happened .

For at least 18 minutes (link recent post) they give the impression that they ended it -- everything had stopped an hour earlier

I would think if you crash into a room and no one fires and the person is dead on the floor the accurate report back in to dispatch would more akin to suspect down - self inflicted shot to the head -- just in terms of describing to dispatch what had just occurred moo



But then it turned into self inflicted .

-Yes, i’m going to revisit these. Just because there is silence doesn’t mean there aren’t 5 people in the room with shotguns ready. Lets say SP & 5 friends wanted to just keep killing anyone & everyone that approached the room.

-I don’t recall the number amount in the SWAT, but knowing the room was 1700 square feet I can’t imagine it wasn’t discussed.

“Upon entry Joe you go in this direction-Jack you go straight-Jim you go to the left”, etc. If there was time for discussion “SINCE the shooting had stopped” it seems they would have a more precise footprint to verbally recount.

-Initially we saw reports about “engaging the suspect”, thats changed and I realize corrections are common but it seems now there is an emphasis on “they entered the room AFTER SP shot himself and died”. I’m not implying anything, I’m just trying to put pieces together.

 

[kathiev]

I'm confused.. how is this related?

Article is about John Beilman a witness in the LV shooting. After being interviewed by the FBI committed suicide

 

[Cryptic]

Do you have to be mentally ill to be an amoral jerk?

Well said.

I don't see anything to suggest that SP was exhibiting signs of mental illness, or even high grade sociopathy in his life prior to the rampage (though sociopathy is not a mental illness).

Rather, the indicators seem to state that SP was simply a low to moderate level jerk: self important but not grandiose. shallow but not exploitive, unpleasant but not aggressive. Even his other traits do not show extremes. He liked his privacy, but was clearly not paranoid.

In short, we have all met people like SP. They come in all ranges of income, intelligence and personal charisma. The vast, overwhelming majority, however, don't go on rampages. Instead, these just remain low to moderate level jerks.

 

[Gooddeeds]

He shot a security guard, through the closed door and then he shot himself.

**************
“He shot the security guard...and then shot himself”.

Did the security guard radio in that SP shot himself? I mean did he hear the 2 gunshots fired from SP? And the audio from these 2 (SP) gunshots, please refresh my memory-what device was it that recorded on? TIA

 

[Gooddeeds]

Article is about John Beilman a witness in the LV shooting. After being interviewed by the FBI committed suicide

-A witness to this shooting? SP?

 

[kittythehare]

**************
“He shot the security guard...and then shot himself”.

Did the security guard radio in that SP shot himself? I mean did he hear the 2 gunshots fired from SP? And the audio from these 2 (SP) gunshots, please refresh my memory-what device was it that recorded on? TIA

I respectfully suggest you await formal police releases.
The police and the FBI are NOT suspects in this case to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Gooddeeds]

I respectfully suggest you await formal police releases.
The police and the FBI are NOT suspects in this case to the best of my knowledge.

-Please refer to my previous post as I clearly stated I am not implying anything. I’m simply trying to connect dots on anything I have missed. The FBI and police have never entered my mind as suspects, and as far as I can tell not the minds of anyone else.

 

[Gooddeeds]

Article is about John Beilman a witness in the LV shooting. After being interviewed by the FBI committed suicide

-I quickly scanned this to determine who this witness was. And even so, after clearing that up, IMO I still don’t see the relation to the LV event and discussion we are having here. Is there anything specific you are pointing out?

 

[m00c0w]

I really see nothing in what you have listed that shows this man was mentally ill. Why some seem insistent on this being the case is puzzling. People don't have to be mentally ill to pull something like this off. They just need the determination to do so which he had. I think he was very coherent when he planned and carried out his mission goal.

Everything he did leading up to the actual shooting showed he applied clear cognitive thought processes when doing so even if what he did was very terribly wrong and he knew it.

MD is searching for an excuse. Who can blame her?

Imo, he was on a mission to become the worst mass shooter in history. Imo, he thought of this as another achievement among the others things he had succeeded in doing during his lifetime whether it was achieving his goal to become a millionaire or achieving his goal to become a high stakes poker player.

I am beginning to highly doubt the claims of alcohol abuse as well and chock it up to people that didn't even know him nor had ever met him nor had ever cut his hair as just wanting their 15 seconds of fame.

This man wasn't mentally ill and that is why there hasn't been any evidence supporting that assumption. One does not have to be mentally ill to put together a masterful plan to become and be a mass shooter.

All of those things could be exhibited in anyone. Very few people are the exact same way 24/7 out of the day. It does not point to mental illness just because someone may be irritable or anti-social on any given day. It was also said he had a very good relationship with his ex and MD loved SP dearly. imo

IMO, always throwing the mental illness excuse out without any evidence is done so some can think only the mentally ill can become mass shooters when that is far from the truth. Anyone can become a murderer with no mental illness in their history whatsoever.

None of what he did showed he was mentally ill at the time. It did show he was thinking clearly right down to all of the tiny details he had to enact to do this horrific mass murder.

IMO

Absolutely agree with a lot of what you said. Even more, if he was mentally ill, I still feel like there was a motive to this beyond "he just went loony". There was some pretty masterful planning, unfortunately, and he certainly took his time to orchestrate this. There was an end goal in mind, IMO, and the big question here is what exactly it was. I'm starting to lean more towards politically-motivated with certain actions he took and items he possessed, but I really have no idea and wish there was more information available.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

REMEMBER- this had to be treated as a terrorist attack.
They, rightly, expected booby-traps..
They, rightly, expected lifts to be booby trapped
They, rightly, expected more than a single assassin.

I use 'rightly' in sense of protocols for all suspected terrorist attacks.

YES- it was approx 70 minutes before they located him, but he was using highly skilled sniper tactics- gunfire was not visible from the windows because he had calculated the distance reqd to make the fire invisible.
And yes, as per 60 minutes report, they checked out the entire suite of rooms upon entry and after having discovered his body.
Also they had seen a 'black object' on the trolley outside his room and they had seen the wires, they had every reason to suppose it was a bomb.
There are millions of contradictory reports but they dont come from reputable sources.
I have never seen the internet so mad/insane.
I agree with OceanBlue eyes theory- there is no proof of mental illness and its wrong to diagnose without evidence.. it disrespects those who are genuinely mentally ill.
Sure world needs reasons, but reasons without evidence are mere speculation.
The truth may be that there was no reason, no mental illness, no revenge agenda, nothing at all..
We must start to try to assimilate that rather than grasping at straws.

LE didn't take 70 minutes to locate him. They knew where he was. They spent much of that 70 minutes evacuating hotel rooms in case he had explosives or might start shooting inside the hotel.

 

[human]

BBM

The parachute is in case of emergencies and is manually deployed. I'm not sure what bearing that has on intentionally crashing a plane.

http://cirrusaircraft.com/innovation/airframe-parachute/

Not being a pilot or a plane owner, I have only paid attention to Cirrus crashes cuz it is made in MN although it is owned by some foreign entity now. Maybe the bank of Bahrain or I think they sold it to the Chinese.

I thought the parachute deployed if there was an issue. I did not realize that it had to be manually pulled.

 

[Spice]

Here is a NYT article. Sounds like he was prepared to kill people several decades ago, using similar tactic. Got on the roof with a gun waiting for rioters. I presume rioters didn't show up.

"He was also willing to fight to defend what was his. During the riots in Los Angeles in the 1990s, he went to the roof of an apartment complex he owned in a flak jacket and armed with a gun, waiting for the rioters..."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/07/us/stephen-paddock-vegas.html

BBM.

This. Right. Here.

It was always in him. That is what this tells me 1000 percent. He was clearly a ticking time bomb. Hindsight is always 20 /20 with these people.

Rioting is not a socially acceptable act.

Dressing in a "flak jacket", arming yourself , and lying in wait like a sniper on a rooftop to "wait for the rioters" is also not a socially acceptable act. Its an act of a disturbed person. A disturbed person who ultimately repeated this same behavior , but this time he directed at innocent concertgoers.

If someone breaks into your home and you defend yourself, its one thing.

Playing out some sniper fantasy is another. The signs were there.

Also, I watched the brother's second interview in full and my jaw was on the floor. His affect was so inappropriate to the content. The whole thing was just beyond bizarre. And if you go back and watch the very beginning, he flashes such an angry and creepy look at a reporter after the reporter asks "How is your mother". It was so creepy. Just an observation. I have many from that interview. So many bizarre comments, so much rambling. The brother is SO superficial. Perseverating on his brother's wealth. So many shallow comments.

"Not everyone works at Taco Bell" (regarding his brothers wealth)

"You'll probably be investigating me at some point".

Bragging about eating sushi at "fusion restaurants"

You can also see the arrogance of the shooter in the comments. The whole "go get me a sandwich" comment and you just knew to do what he asked commentary, gives us a peek .

You want to paint him as some "evil genius", while he was "just steve" (Or something like that). So many comments lacked empathy, he was so glib , superficial, and totally rambling.

Just some really really WEIRD stuff. And I don't remember anyone at that point calling his brother an "evil genius". He is the one that used that term over an over again.

The family dynamics in this family, from early on to now, would reveal A LOT.