NV NV - Donnis Redman, 14, & Michael Griffin, 18, Las Vegas, 1 March 1958

[John/Jane Doe]

4633DMCA - Michael Lawrence Griffin

2409DFCA - Donnis Marie Redman

 

[OddOneOut]

Sadly, I don't think either of them made it to Arizona. If they really were seen in Las Vegas, I doubt they went much further. I suspect they were carjacked in or near Las Vegas and the carjacker drove the car to and abandoned it near Williams, Arizona. Two naive kids would have been easy prey for a criminal. Also, it seems like Donnis had a good relationship with her mother as she told her mother their plans.

 

[SimsGuy67]

I found this Jane Doe who could be Pinky but it might be an automatic rule out since DNA is available in both cases. Can someone let me know if both DNA samples are in CODIS?

I will list her last known location as Williams, AZ as that is where Mike's car was found. I'm trying a new format of table without the 4th column:

	Tuscon Jane Doe (1965) UP7228	Pinky Marie Redman MP1475
Sex	Female	Female
Race	White/Caucasian	White/Caucasian
Age	16-20	14
Height	Estimated 5'3"	5'2"
Weight	Unknown	105lbs
Hair Color	Unknown	Blond/Strawberry
Eye Color	Unknown	Blue
Distinctive Features	Lower Jaw undeveloped on right side causing mouth to close crooked.	Unknown/None
D.O.D or D.L.C	1960-1964	March 1, 1958
Circumstances	Found in desert are outside Tucson.	Went missing with her boyfriend, Mike Griffin.
Distance	Williams-Tucson	286miles (4hr 13min)

I honestly can't tell if Pinky had a similar jaw development issue. Let me know what you think though!

 

[John/Jane Doe]

I found this Jane Doe who could be Pinky but it might be an automatic rule out since DNA is available in both cases. Can someone let me know if both DNA samples are in CODIS?

I will list her last known location as Williams, AZ as that is where Mike's car was found. I'm trying a new format of table without the 4th column:

	Tuscon Jane Doe (1965) UP7228	Pinky Marie Redman MP1475
Sex	Female	Female
Race	White/Caucasian	White/Caucasian
Age	16-20	14
Height	Estimated 5'3"	5'2"
Weight	Unknown	105lbs
Hair Color	Unknown	Blond/Strawberry
Eye Color	Unknown	Blue
Distinctive Features	Lower Jaw undeveloped on right side causing mouth to close crooked.	Unknown/None
D.O.D or D.L.C	1960-1964	March 1, 1958
Circumstances	Found in desert are outside Tucson.	Went missing with her boyfriend, Mike Griffin.
Distance	Williams-Tucson	286miles (4hr 13min)

I honestly can't tell if Pinky had a similar jaw development issue. Let me know what you think though!

Here is the Tucson Jane Doe Thread:

AZ - AZ - Pima Canyon, WhtFem UP7228, 16-20, oddly-developed mandible, Oct'65

Surprised to see this wasn't here. 16 - 20 year old female, skeletal remains found in desert area in Tucson. 63 inches tall. No weight estimate. Probable year of death is 1960 but I personally wouldn't pay much attention to that, especially considering the environment it was in but that's...

www.websleuths.com

 

[John/Jane Doe]

@Caring1 Hey could you post the current list of NamUs exclusions for Donnis Redman and Michael Griffin? I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Caring1]

@Caring1 Hey could you post the current list of NamUs exclusions for Donnis Redman and Michael Griffin? I would greatly appreciate it.

Donnis Redman - 34 UP exclusions

 

[Caring1]

@Caring1 Hey could you post the current list of NamUs exclusions for Donnis Redman and Michael Griffin? I would greatly appreciate it.

Michael Griffin - 42 UP exclusions

 

[Springrain]

I would really love to know how Pinky was "ruled out" as Little Miss X. I can't find any information on this front and they do not have the same identifiers. If anyone can let me know I'd appreciate it.

 

[SimsGuy67]

I would really love to know how Pinky was "ruled out" as Little Miss X. I can't find any information on this front and they do not have the same identifiers. If anyone can let me know I'd appreciate it.

They ruled her out on physical characteristics. Pinky was light/fair skinned while LE believed Little Miss X was darker skinned. Pinky also had blonde hair while the hair retrieved from the site of Little Miss X's body was brown. Other than that, they have no way to rule her out. The only women who have been conclusively ruled out are probably Mary Begay and Carol Batterman, both ruled out by dentals. I am unsure if Connie Smith is ruled out or not as I believe the dentals were ruled as "inconclusive".

 

[Springrain]

They ruled her out on physical characteristics. Pinky was light/fair skinned while LE believed Little Miss X was darker skinned. Pinky also had blonde hair while the hair retrieved from the site of Little Miss X's body was brown. Other than that, they have no way to rule her out. The only women who have been conclusively ruled out are probably Mary Begay and Carol Batterman, both ruled out by dentals. I am unsure if Connie Smith is ruled out or not as I believe the dentals were ruled as "inconclusive".

Well, that rule-out hardly sounds certain, especially since Pinky could have dyed her hair and the skin color is just an estimate.

 

[SimsGuy67]

Posted to the wrong thread but still related to this case. All you guys need to know right now is that Pinky is submitted for reviewing in January.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Something that may be quite unlikely, but could it be Michael? Apparently everything seems to match either in Age (since Michael would have been around 72 years old and the unidentified man was between 75 and 85 years old, still not that far from the age that Michael would have been at that time), also in that the unidentified man apparently lived in Tucson, Arizona before moving to Salem, Indiana and it is known that Michael and Donnis Redman were going to Las Vegas possibly to elope but Mike's car was found in Williams, Arizona, and he was The last thing I would like to mention is that the unidentified man had "Pinky" tattooed on his left forearm and we all know that Donnis Redman's nickname was Pinky.

3652UMIN

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

I would like to know what you think about this.

 

[Alleykins]

Something that may be quite unlikely, but could it be Michael? Apparently everything seems to match either in Age (since Michael would have been around 72 years old and the unidentified man was between 75 and 85 years old, still not that far from the age that Michael would have been at that time), also in that the unidentified man apparently lived in Tucson, Arizona before moving to Salem, Indiana and it is known that Michael and Donnis Redman were going to Las Vegas possibly to elope but Mike's car was found in Williams, Arizona, and he was The last thing I would like to mention is that the unidentified man had "Pinky" tattooed on his left forearm and we all know that Donnis Redman's nickname was Pinky.

3652UMIN

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

I would like to know what you think about this.

That's very interesting.

 

[SimsGuy67]

Something that may be quite unlikely, but could it be Michael? Apparently everything seems to match either in Age (since Michael would have been around 72 years old and the unidentified man was between 75 and 85 years old, still not that far from the age that Michael would have been at that time), also in that the unidentified man apparently lived in Tucson, Arizona before moving to Salem, Indiana and it is known that Michael and Donnis Redman were going to Las Vegas possibly to elope but Mike's car was found in Williams, Arizona, and he was The last thing I would like to mention is that the unidentified man had "Pinky" tattooed on his left forearm and we all know that Donnis Redman's nickname was Pinky.

3652UMIN

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

I would like to know what you think about this.

Honestly, I was pretty unconvinced until I saw he had Pinky tattooed on him. It could be a match.

 

[branmuffin]

Hi there. Did you find any trace about Donnis may be of mixed race....Lot's of people registered as missing, even though they were of mixed race....went into the system as Caucasian...because that meant LE was going to be searching harder (I'm sorry, it is what it is, it was like that in the "old days") To be honest...f.i. Native Americans are still struggling with getting attention for their missing and murdered, until this very day.

I just don't seeing Donnis being of mixed race...but I don't know....

Hi, I know sometimes the DNA can upset the applecart when it shows mixed race markers but we know that many people who have 'passed' as Caucasian can repress their origins for obvious reasons. Here's a case in Canada of a woman who was murdered. She has Inuit heritage but never in a million years would someone consider that info when finding a deceased person who was recognizable. Here's a link to her story:

Family tells hearings that a 'white-passing' appearance alters police reaction

Family members of a murdered Inuk woman said Monday that merely appearing to be white often heightens police and public interest in a crime or missing person case involving an aboriginal person.

atlantic.ctvnews.ca

So I don't discard the possibility that the DNA can contradict the physical appearance of an individual. There's so many people out there whose physical characteristics bely their heritage.

 

[branmuffin]

One of the odd things I find on Michael's profile is the car. On Charley Project and Namus it's identified as a 1950 or 1951 Dodge Clipper with twin exhausts and mufflers. The thing is I don't find any record of a vehicle by that name from Dodge. I do see images of a vehicle called a Clipper but it's a Packard vehicle. It's typical of that era, a huge boat of a car. I've seen a white 1951 Dodge which would attract attention of the younger generation. Probably the film Rebel Without a Cause created interest in older vehicles. If it was all tricked out with double mufflers and exhausts I could see it being targeted for theft. Could it be a 1941 instead of a 1951 vehicle?

 

[Bit of hope]

One of the odd things I find on Michael's profile is the car. On Charley Project and Namus it's identified as a 1950 or 1951 Dodge Clipper with twin exhausts and mufflers. The thing is I don't find any record of a vehicle by that name from Dodge. I do see images of a vehicle called a Clipper but it's a Packard vehicle. It's typical of that era, a huge boat of a car. I've seen a white 1951 Dodge which would attract attention of the younger generation. Probably the film Rebel Without a Cause created interest in older vehicles. If it was all tricked out with double mufflers and exhausts I could see it being targeted for theft. Could it be a 1941 instead of a 1951 vehicle?

I think you are right about the Clipper. Strange that the authorities never picked that up.

Dodge Vehicle History 1950 - 1959 | Country Chrysler Dodge Ram Jeep

A look back at the aesthetically beautiful era of the 1950's as we take a closer look at the decade's Dodge cars and trucks.

www.countrychrysler.com

100 Years of Dodge History: 1940s

1940 brought a sense of optimism with it as Americans began to see an end to the Great Depression. Dodge was doing very well as one of the...

countrychrysler.blogspot.com

Dodge's 1940s lineup included the following vehicles:

• Dodge Luxury Liner Deluxe D14 (1940)
• Dodge Luxury Liner Deluxe Custom D19 (1941)
• Dodge Deluxe D22 (1942)
• Dodge Custom D24 (1946-1948)
• Dodge Power Wagon (1946 +)
• Dodge B-Series Truck (1948+)
• Dodge Coronet (1949+)
• Dodge Meadowbrook (1949+)
• Dodge Wayfarer (1949+)
  

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Something that may be quite unlikely, but could it be Michael? Apparently everything seems to match either in Age (since Michael would have been around 72 years old and the unidentified man was between 75 and 85 years old, still not that far from the age that Michael would have been at that time), also in that the unidentified man apparently lived in Tucson, Arizona before moving to Salem, Indiana and it is known that Michael and Donnis Redman were going to Las Vegas possibly to elope but Mike's car was found in Williams, Arizona, and he was The last thing I would like to mention is that the unidentified man had "Pinky" tattooed on his left forearm and we all know that Donnis Redman's nickname was Pinky.

3652UMIN

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

I would like to know what you think about this.

Here is John Doe's thread:

IN - IN - Salem, WhtMale UP16751, 75-85, alias "Bill Lee Hull", May'12

This case looks very interesting and I'm not finding a thread on him. Apologies in advance if duplicate. *morgue image at link* Unidentified Person Case This man known as "Bill Lee Hull" died on May 24, 2012. He had lived in Tucson with a woman for around 20 years, then moved to Salem...

www.websleuths.com

 

[HmmMysterious]

Well, that rule-out hardly sounds certain, especially since Pinky could have dyed her hair and the skin color is just an estimate.

Doe Network said that the hair on Little Miss X was wavy, "but may not have been natural". i wonder if this could mean that she dyed it to a brown color.

 

[victoriarobinson642]

I wish there were other photos of Pinky