NV NV - Steven Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #22

[fridaybaker]

Does anyone know if GW asked Steven why he was in Vegas? Seems like it would be a normal thing to ask, especially since they both happened to be there.

I think you'll find back in the early threads this very question. If I recall, GW never indicated that he asked SK why was in Vegas, and people have wondered about this. Many folks here thought that it would be an obvious question. Anyway, I should probably go back and re-read those early threads, because even simple details become muddy over time!

 

[Fairy1]

Fairy, you make excellent points. Many times over the years you've brought up the issue of SK "so readily offering to return to St. George when he received the call from GW asking if SK could fill in at church". I can say this: Looking back at the times I've had job interviews, I would never have responded the way SK did to the GW call. I would have said "I can come back if you need me to, since your house is burning down and you need all hands on deck", or "I can come back since you've just given me news that my mother has been in a car accident and is dying" or "I can come back because a tornado has just ripped through St. George and entire families are missing". I would not offer to go back and miss the interview for something as trivial as filling in at the church meeting, which obviously wasn't a dire situation since GW went ahead and did it anyway.

Now, I have to say this: When I've had job interviews, they've been JOB interviews. Meaning, they were for full time positions within my professional line of work. Real jobs. Could it be that SK was simply going to meet someone to talk about a very part-time type of thing? Or someone who could give him some advice on his resume? That type of thing?

Here's the question: What do folks here think would be the kind of situation where SK was out of town, but offered to "go back" to fill in at the church meeting so readily?

I feel the same way. By all accounts, Steven was rather desparate for a job. If he was going for a job interview, why be so ready and willing to bail? Also, when speaking with Steven's Mom at the April 2010 search, she was adamant that Steven would not have missed church for a job interview on a Sunday. But of course, we know that people we think we know well don't always behave the way we would expect.
Steven was obviously willing to miss church for SOME reason that day.

 

[Fairy1]

Fairy, just to clarify: If I recall, GW contacted him at around 8am and the meeting GW asked him to fill in for him was scheduled for noon, is that right?

Yes - the call was around 8 AM. I don't recall what time they needed to be at church. I want to say it was 1:00 but I'm not positive.

 

[Fairy1]

Does anyone know if GW asked Steven why he was in Vegas? Seems like it would be a normal thing to ask, especially since they both happened to be there.

GW was in the Vegas area at the time, right? So basically he stated that SK offered to return to Utah to help with church business, yes?

So we really don't seem to have any official validation from Steven himself that this is true?

Kind of makes you wonder if there was other business that brought them both to Vegas at the same time.

Part of me wants to think SK himself willingly sought out an opportunity of some sort in the area. One that he came across himself and perhaps against his better judgement pursued something that could have been a bit risky.

However, one has to wonder, with the complete lack of clues and communication, maybe this long road trip was planned with someone he knew in Utah, face to face. What I can't decipher is that was this just a bunch of random driving to kill time before a planned meeting in Henderson or was all of this connected in some way and the final stop there was part of a "route"?

I think you'll find back in the early threads this very question. If I recall, GW never indicated that he asked SK why was in Vegas, and people have wondered about this. Many folks here thought that it would be an obvious question. Anyway, I should probably go back and re-read those early threads, because even simple details become muddy over time!

IIRC, GW had been visiting friends in Vegas over the weekend. We know the phone call between GW and Steven happened but obviously only have GW's account of the actual conversation. He claims he didn't ask Steven why he was in Vegas but said, "do what you gotta do" - or something along those lines. This still irritates me to no end! Is it a guy thing? If I were speaking to a girlfriend under these circumstances, I would ask!

 

[Fairy1]

Something else that's been on my mind.....For some time now, I have believed that whatever led Steven to Vegas that day began in St. George. There is reason to believe someone he knew in St. George may have been a danger to Steven. But it has lately occurred to me that perhaps this whole thing started before Steven even moved to St. George. The move itself was odd given that Steven had left his job because he wanted to spend more time with his friends and family. So why would he then move away from them altogether? And with no job? And all that driving around - WTH?

Gah! Same questions over and over for 7 1/2 years - no wonder I'm losing my mind!

 

[EmiLove832]

Something else that's been on my mind.....For some time now, I have believed that whatever led Steven to Vegas that day began in St. George. There is reason to believe someone he knew in St. George may have been a danger to Steven. But it has lately occurred to me that perhaps this whole thing started before Steven even moved to St. George. The move itself was odd given that Steven had left his job because he wanted to spend more time with his friends and family. So why would he then move away from them altogether? And with no job? And all that driving around - WTH?

Gah! Same questions over and over for 7 1/2 years - no wonder I'm losing my mind!

I started re-reading the first thread to look for information that's been forgotten. SK's cousin posted here on the first thread that Steven moved to St. George for the weather.

A few people questioned the validity of that statement and the cousin confirmed again that the weather is a lot better in St. George.

 

[EmiLove832]

IIRC, GW had been visiting friends in Vegas over the weekend. We know the phone call between GW and Steven happened but obviously only have GW's account of the actual conversation. He claims he didn't ask Steven why he was in Vegas but said, "do what you gotta do" - or something along those lines. This still irritates me to no end! Is it a guy thing? If I were speaking to a girlfriend under these circumstances, I would ask!

Agreed!!

Bringing forward this link from thread #1 post #1, it's still working:
http://m.deseretnews.com/article/705356478/Powell-isnt-only-missing-Utahn.html

The link says Steven spoke to two friends from his ward that day and stated he was in Henderson but neither bothered to ask why.

 

[Caffeine]

In retrospect I'm sure those who spoke to Steven wish they asked why he was there because we'd probably have this solved by now. If we had insight as to why he was in that neighborhood I think we'd have a pretty good idea what happened to Steven Koecher.

But alas, it might be a guy thing or those he spoke to felt it was none of their business to ask why he was near Vegas.

Though the "Do what you gotta do" comment from GW seems strangely out of context. He says he spoke with SK, learned he was in Vegas and yet he says that to him?

To me it seems like an unusual statement he made considering he has no idea why Steven is in the Vegas area. Business? Leisure?

That seems more like something one would say after they were told the reason of the trip, imo. Not to say GW is withholding anything but seemingly that is more of a comment say when you learn of the purpose of traveling that far.

 

[fridaybaker]

In retrospect I'm sure those who spoke to Steven wish they asked why he was there because we'd probably have this solved by now. If we had insight as to why he was in that neighborhood I think we'd have a pretty good idea what happened to Steven Koecher.

But alas, it might be a guy thing or those he spoke to felt it was none of their business to ask why he was near Vegas.

Though the "Do what you gotta do" comment from GW seems strangely out of context. He says he spoke with SK, learned he was in Vegas and yet he says that to him?

To me it seems like an unusual statement he made considering he has no idea why Steven is in the Vegas area. Business? Leisure?

That seems more like something one would say after they were told the reason of the trip, imo. Not to say GW is withholding anything but seemingly that is more of a comment say when you learn of the purpose of traveling that far.

I really don't find it odd when I think of how my husband talks with men. It's one of those differences between how women and men interact with each other, in my book. I would never say "do what ya gotta do" to anyone. Not in my lexicon. It seems not very "caring". The only context I might use it in is if I'd had a detailed conversation with someone and that someone were facing a tough decision. Even then, although I might say it, I likely wouldn't use those words.

My husband? Now that's a horse of another color. Men just seem to have more of a respectful, not "butt-in", way of relating to each other. Unless reasons are given, he wouldn't ask. He would think it respectful to not ask. (Especially if the destination were LV) They're just two different ways of relating to people: The feminine and the masculine.

 

[Caffeine]

I dunno, maybe I'm just naturally curious. Had someone shared with me they were away from home, generally I'd find it reasonable to follow up with why they were there and how they were doing. For all GW knew, Steven could have been up there getting a colonoscopy or something.

To me the interaction almost suggests GW knew he'd be there strictly for work, hence him not inquiring further and essentially telling him to take care of business.

But alas, people are different and it may have just been a simple off hand remark.

Regardless, I still think Steven was there for some business, or at least a desire to make money. Ultimately the big question still remains, why was he in that particular Henderson neighborhood and why does nothing connect him there?

In the end I think Steven either utilized the public library computers to scour job leads or he was given this assignment by someone he knew in Utah. It just seems too premeditated that he arrives at the stroke of noon with a folder in hand, walking briskly without hesitation. He had to be there for something and whatever information or directions to that area were probably in that folder.

 

[JaimeSommers]

I dunno, maybe I'm just naturally curious. Had someone shared with me they were away from home, generally I'd find it reasonable to follow up with why they were there and how they were doing. For all GW knew, Steven could have been up there getting a colonoscopy or something.

To me the interaction almost suggests GW knew he'd be there strictly for work, hence him not inquiring further and essentially telling him to take care of business.

But alas, people are different and it may have just been a simple off hand remark.

Regardless, I still think Steven was there for some business, or at least a desire to make money. Ultimately the big question still remains, why was he in that particular Henderson neighborhood and why does nothing connect him there?

In the end I think Steven either utilized the public library computers to scour job leads or he was given this assignment by someone he knew in Utah. It just seems too premeditated that he arrives at the stroke of noon with a folder in hand, walking briskly without hesitation. He had to be there for something and whatever information or directions to that area were probably in that folder.

Hadn't thought of this before, but perhaps he was being used (without knowing it) to deliver information (the folder) to someone, and the "someone" either wasn't happy with what was in the folder --- or felt they had been duped --- and took it out on Steven. Maybe the person who "hired" Steven for the job knew he needed money, presented it as an easy delivery job for a quick buck, and Steven found himself in a horrible situation once he got there.

Just spitballing.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[Caffeine]

Hadn't thought of this before, but perhaps he was being used (without knowing it) to deliver information (the folder) to someone, and the "someone" either wasn't happy with what was in the folder --- or felt they had been duped --- and took it out on Steven. Maybe the person who "hired" Steven for the job knew he needed money, presented it as an easy delivery job for a quick buck, and Steven found himself in a horrible situation once he got there.

Just spitballing.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Yeah, I definitely think whatever the premise for the offer was, Steven likely knew right off that something was wrong, hence the lack of communication from his phone immediately after.

Had it slowly unfolded into a fishy situation, along the way SK would likely have had time to text or call someone.

Whether he went to a house or a car in that neighborhood, things probably went from bad to worse very quickly.

 

[EmiLove832]

I really don't find it odd when I think of how my husband talks with men. It's one of those differences between how women and men interact with each other, in my book. I would never say "do what ya gotta do" to anyone. Not in my lexicon. It seems not very "caring". The only context I might use it in is if I'd had a detailed conversation with someone and that someone were facing a tough decision. Even then, although I might say it, I likely wouldn't use those words.

My husband? Now that's a horse of another color. Men just seem to have more of a respectful, not "butt-in", way of relating to each other. Unless reasons are given, he wouldn't ask. He would think it respectful to not ask. (Especially if the destination were LV) They're just two different ways of relating to people: The feminine and the masculine.

I agree, my boyfriend is the same way.

It's possible GW didn't have the stereotypical negative views of Las Vegas. In that case, it wouldn't be odd that he didn't ask.

It would be interesting to find out from LDS members in the South Utah area how the church feels about Las Vegas and if it's ok to spend time in Las Vegas.

 

[cocomod]

I have a lot of LDS friends that love spending time in Vegas. Great shows, great food, golf, great entertainment.

 

[fridaybaker]

I dunno, maybe I'm just naturally curious. Had someone shared with me they were away from home, generally I'd find it reasonable to follow up with why they were there and how they were doing. For all GW knew, Steven could have been up there getting a colonoscopy or something.

To me the interaction almost suggests GW knew he'd be there strictly for work, hence him not inquiring further and essentially telling him to take care of business.

But alas, people are different and it may have just been a simple off hand remark.

Regardless, I still think Steven was there for some business, or at least a desire to make money. Ultimately the big question still remains, why was he in that particular Henderson neighborhood and why does nothing connect him there?

In the end I think Steven either utilized the public library computers to scour job leads or he was given this assignment by someone he knew in Utah. It just seems too premeditated that he arrives at the stroke of noon with a folder in hand, walking briskly without hesitation. He had to be there for something and whatever information or directions to that area were probably in that folder.

Caffeine, I think it's worth noting that many, many people here have questioned the GW response, thinking along the same lines you have. We'll never know for sure, but it's worth noting. Regardless of the LV location, many people here find GW's response somewhat odd, and I think that it's partly due to the rest of the dialog ("Can you fill in for me?" "I'm out of town, but can come if you really need me to".) Paraphrasing here -can't remember the exact words. Don't you wish this was a few years later when this dialog would have invariably happened via text instead of talk? (I don't know, maybe text can't be retrieved.)

I absolutely agree with your assessment of the purpose of SK's business in SCA. He was there on some sort of business, job or otherwise. As you said, "stroke of noon", "folder in hand", walking briskly without hesitation". He appeared to have come prepared for something, and knew where he was going. I also am inclined to think that whatever happened, happened very quickly, due to the phone inactivity. So: Where does that leave us?

If we start from this premise (not that this is the only one, but if we try to follow this chain of logic/events) we immediately arrive at two options, which have also been discussed here, but perhaps we can go over the probability of each one, once more: If the above is true, did SK arrive at a) a house or b) another vehicle? Pluses or minuses for each one, anyone?

 

[Caffeine]

Excellent thoughts, fridaybaker.

I think your right, SK went into either a house or a car in that community.

Personally, I feel that SK went on to meet with someone in a car and immediately left the neighborhood for a few reasons. Most importantly, the cell pings show activity a bit further north, so it seems reasonable to assume Steven was with the phone, just not in a position to use it perhaps. Conversely, you'd have to wonder if he went into a house and ultimately died there, why would the phone have so much activity? One would think they'd simply destroy it there and there wouldn't have been any further communication with cell towers.

Next, the area in which he parked wasn't a specific address. He parked at a dead end and walked away from that area. To me, it seems like it would have been an incredibly sketchy and bizarre request to ask someone you are meeting with to do that, yet give a specific address to meet at. It's been said maybe Steven did this on his own accord, to maybe privately prepare for "business", but c'mon, this isn't an interview at Google. This was a private residence at noon on a Sunday. One would think a potential job offer in this setting wouldn't need that much preparation.

So I feel the cell phone pings, coupled with where he parked suggest to me he may have been meeting at a non-specific area in the community in which he'd be meeting a driver or a contact of some sort.

The idea he was killed inside a house always seemed risky and brazen to me. That would mean the occupant would have to convince him not to park in the driveway, and risk the possibility of several homeowners seeing him not only walking but possibly entering the house and then subsequently turn up missing. Whereas him entering a vehicle and leave wouldn't be something a neighbor would necessarily be as attentive to versus "Oh, look. Some young guy is going in Mr Jones house!"

The one thing that has always irked me with this, for a neighborhood comprised of older folks - surprisingly none of them seem attentive to a younger nonresident parking at a dead end and walking down the street, folder in hand. It never seemed like anyone ever recalled seeing him.

That's what I think, but I'd like to hear other thoughts. [emoji39]

 

[EmiLove832]

I don't find it odd that he parked at the end of the cul-de-sac. I rarely ever park in someone's driveway.

Exactly what he did is what I would do if I were going to a business meeting or interview at someone's residence.

Even if it were an interview at a store in a strip mall, I wouldn't park right in front of the store.

 

[liz b.]

Haven't followed SK's case in years, but found myself thinking about his disappearance lately. And I looked, and I'm amazed and happy to see the case is still being pursued here. I came to believe that he was in that area because of something connected to geneology.. and that's what was in the folder, documents related to that. Also thought he had been there before, All jmo

 

[Caffeine]

Haven't followed SK's case in years, but found myself thinking about his disappearance lately. And I looked, and I'm amazed and happy to see the case is still being pursued here. I came to believe that he was in that area because of something connected to geneology.. and that's what was in the folder, documents related to that. Also thought he had been there before, All jmo

I think whatever is inside the folder is a big clue as to why he is in that area specifically. There's really no other clues for him being there - friends and family are baffled, cell phone shows nothing, computer showed nothing significant.

Even if it's handwritten notes or directions or a resume etc I feel like something of importance was in that folder for sure.

 

[Mayor Perk]

I think whatever is inside the folder is a big clue as to why he is in that area specifically. There's really no other clues for him being there - friends and family are baffled, cell phone shows nothing, computer showed nothing significant.

Even if it's handwritten notes or directions or a resume etc I feel like something of importance was in that folder for sure.

Agreed on the folder. I think the visit to the Las Vegas was job related. We know he was struggling financially. We also know he was doing a good deal of travel the weeks prior to his disappearance (randomly visiting an ex girlfriend's parents hours away from home). I think he had a temporary job that required travel. Perhaps as a courier, messenger, drug mule? Maybe he saw something he shouldn't. Just a theory.