NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #12

[carbuff]

Yes, it is the simplest theory but when I think about it, Vegas has to be one of the toughest cities to commit suicide in and disappear at the same time. True, a lot of suicides take place, specifically in the hotels and "pay by the hour" motels downtown. But, those people are eventually found and identified.

But, to commit suicide AND disappear, that is something different. Think about Vegas: There are no bridges to jump off of. There are no waterways to jump into. There are no forests or woods, except for Mt. Charleston which is like an hour and a half from where Steven parked his car.

I think about my hometown city, Pittsburgh. It would be about 10,000 times easier to commit suicide there than in Las Vegas. You could park in a garage downtown. Walk to one of the city's many bridges and jump. The fast Ohio River would take you downstream so far that you'd be miles away before anyone knew you were gone.

Do we really believe he just walked out into the desert? It's the only suicide plan left. And I will say again, heading down Evening Lights was the opposite direction of the way he needed to go to get to the desert the quickest. And what did he do once he got to the desert? Shoot himself. Did he use a gun before? Did anybody ever see him with a gun? He OD'd? Any record of him having a wide assortment of pills? Because I don't believe he just started walking and waited for the onset of exposure.

And I will add that if he did go out in the desert to kill himself, my idea is that he would have chosen to shoot himself/OD/whatever very quickly. So, a search of the area done those weeks after his disappearance would have found him. Remember, there are no trees to hide him so he would be right out there in the desert and would be easy to see from the air if somebody was actually looking.

I know this may be trying to attach logic to the illogical but I am not of the opinion that every person who commits suicide is acting illogically. Most of the time, they think things out pretty thoroughly, including a suicide note. Sure, maybe Steven put some suicide plan together that would leave open the possibility that he was still alive because he would not want his parents to think he committed suicide. But, instead, just disappeared with no proof of life or death. It is possible.

i just think that the facts don't support that conclusion. The facts more support the idea of a guy who was desperate to find something new to do with his life, not somebody who was looking to end it. And that desperation took off in a direction that got him into trouble.

Many suicides do think things through, that's true, but others are almost an impulsive act. Only a small percentage of suicides leave notes.

I was thinking he probably used a knife, though maybe what he was doing that morning driving around Vegas was purchasing a gun. And I think that he's probably not very far from where Evening Lights opens onto the golf course -- I think if he killed himself, he would have done it somewhere he could be sure friends and family wouldn't be the ones to find his body. He probably thought somebody else was going to find him before long.

As I said, I'm not sure I believe this myself. But I can't dismiss it.

Off topic -- my son goes to college in Pittburgh. When we drive over those bridges, I think, Hm, really easy to commit a murder here...

 

[carbuff]

Actually, not a rough at all. I've moved around Vegas quite a bit and I don't own a ton of stuff so no big deal. Moving into a house with a big pool with an owner who is not there a lot so. . .it's ALL good.

I did not have a camera with me that day and yes I was the guy who ran across the burial site of Jazz. It was a small pile of rocks on the south side of two Joshua trees close together. If you look at an aerial map I would say it is a 1/4 mile south of Volunteer Road on the far west of the search area. The pile of rocks was about a square yard (3 feet by 3 feet). I did not disturb it because it looked legitimate and I did not want to ruin somebody's pet's resting place.

Thanks! That answers the question I had, which was whether the area was big enough to be a pet burial hiding the burial of a larger object, like a person. Sounds like not.

 

[RubyRed]

Here's a scenario:

Steven gets home around 10 after a fruitless day of job hunting and Christmas shopping. He finds somebody else already there. The person kills Steven -- has been planning it for some time. There's a struggle and the room gets messed up some. He drags Steven's body out the back door and into that open area right behind the house. Maybe there's a grave prepared already. Shoves the body in and covers it quickly.

Goes back to the house. Tidies up the room to cover up signs of the struggle, ?not knowing Steven's not usually tidy? Grabs Steven's keys and cell phone, and his spoofing device. Drives car to Vegas. Drives around so there will be pings registered.

He knows that when Steven doesn't show up for his church obligations, there will be calls. Uses the spoofing device to sound like Steven. When he has talked to enough people to establish that Steven is alive and well in Las Vegas, he drives to Henderson and parks the car in a previously chosen spot (a place where it's not likely to be towed or vandalized, because he wants it to be found). Walks away, probably to meet a cab.

I suspect he chose the place because he knew about the security cameras and knew he resembled Steven physically.

I don't know whether there's a possible perp to fit that profile. It just occurred to me after learning about those spoofing devices.

Good scenario, carbuff.

 

[RubyRed]

Actually, not a rough at all. I've moved around Vegas quite a bit and I don't own a ton of stuff so no big deal. Moving into a house with a big pool with an owner who is not there a lot so. . .it's ALL good.

I did not have a camera with me that day and yes I was the guy who ran across the burial site of Jazz. It was a small pile of rocks on the south side of two Joshua trees close together. If you look at an aerial map I would say it is a 1/4 mile south of Volunteer Road on the far west of the search area. The pile of rocks was about a square yard (3 feet by 3 feet). I did not disturb it because it looked legitimate and I did not want to ruin somebody's pet's resting place.

I hope you left a paper trail Fasteddy. LOL

 

[Paulette]

carbuff, how do you get the spoofing device to imitate Steven's voice? Why would someone kill him at home? How would this person know about the Marshall's camera? Nah, too many variables.

I like fasteddy's sentance "But, to commit suicide AND disappear, that is something different." The only place he could be is in a gully or a drainpipe. Are there any mineshafts around there?

Cab companies have logs of theri fares. Nothing has turned up so far.

That leaves abduction. Who & why?

 

[Fairy1]

Police use an automated computer program where a missing person's information is plugged into a flier template and e-mailed or faxed to hospitals, schools, casinos, media, law enforcement agencies and elsewhere. That's a large database of e-mails and phone numbers where one typo can determine whether someone receives information or not.​

Most emergency rooms received information the next day about Billie Jean's case from faxes, phone calls or visits from police. But the region's only public hospital heard nothing.​

One week later, officials at University Medical Center said they still had not received information from Metro.​

"There's nothing in the emergency department," said Danita Cohen, UMC spokeswoman. "If Metro faxes in we would post it. The last fax we got from them was three weeks ago about a missing man."​

Sgt. Peter Ferranti of the police missing persons unit said the error could be caused by a computer glitch or a misplaced flier.​

http://www.lvrj.com/news/police--hospitals--family-join-forces-to-look-for-woman-93839669.html​

Above is from Lato's link. Just wanted to show how easy it would be for someone to get lost in the system. O/T I love this constant variation in spelling. Flyers vs fliers. LOL​

The more I think about this, the more it irritates me! Of all the hospitals in the Las Vegas valley, UMC would be the most likely where someone like Steven would wind up if he were in need of medical care. It's the county hospital.

This is what happens when people don't care. They don't consider the pain and suffering of others enough to be thorough in their jobs. Never consider how they would feel if the shoe was on the other foot.

It just takes one dropped ball to throw everything off course. Just one.

And it drives home the point that to do something once in a missing persons case is not enough. All these months, we've gone along thinking that Steven's flyers were at all the hospitals and homeless shelters. Now I have to wonder, are they still? Were they ever actually posted or were they tossed out or misplaced? The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Is anyone being squeaky?

It pizzes me off. Sorry.

 

[carbuff]

carbuff, how do you get the spoofing device to imitate Steven's voice? Why would someone kill him at home? How would this person know about the Marshall's camera? Nah, too many variables.

I like fasteddy's sentance "But, to commit suicide AND disappear, that is something different." The only place he could be is in a gully or a drainpipe. Are there any mineshafts around there?

Cab companies have logs of theri fares. Nothing has turned up so far.

That leaves abduction. Who & why?

The voice disguising feature is something the spoofing devices come with. I don't suppose it could actually imitate Steven's voice completely, but it could make the voice similar enough that someone who called expecting to talk to Steven, and getting someone who said they were Steven, would chalk any differences up to bad connection.

Why would someone kill him at home? Makes just as much sense as someone luring him to a strange town to kill him.

 

[Fairy1]

I've been thinking today about why all family, friends and PI have gone quiet.

Of course, they have to go on with their lives. But have they stumbled onto something that points to one explanation or another?

If they have discovered a likely reason for Steven walking away or committing suicide, those would be reasons to fall silent.

But if it's possible he suffered a mental breakdown or fell victim to foul play, there is work yet to be done. He either needs help or there is a murderer out there.

 

[fasteddy4]

A body was discovered in a burned out car today in Laughlin. No word yet as to who it might be.

But it did remind me of how crazy this town can be and why Steven's disappearance could be completely random.

I remember, like 5 years ago? 6 years ago? There was a Las Vegas weightlifting couple, Kelly Ryan and Craig Titus, who killed their assistant and then took her out into the desert in their own Jaguar and set the car on fire, leaving her body inside. This girl had worked for them and then they killed her. Lots of rumors swirling around about drugs, steroids, an affair, etc. The two tried to get away but got caught in Boston.

I totally forgot about that until I read about that burned out car today. What this has to do with Steven, I am not exactly sure but it does prove that bad things can happen in nice neighborhoods, as those two fitness freaks lived in a very nice part of town and still killed someone they knew well.

Going to throw this out there while I am at it. There has been a lot of ideas of why Steven would miss church that Sunday. My idea has been that he was looking to make a quick buck. But, could it be he thought he was going to church. . .like to somebody's house. . .like somebody used their "fake" interest in Steven's religious beliefs to lure him to their house? Lured him into something like a cult or something? I know that is TOTALLY off the board but, hey, Jim Jones successfully did it. He got a bunch of people to march into the middle of a jungle and kill themselves. And they were people very much like Steven, people looking for new answers in life.

Just sayin'. . .

 

[Fairy1]

I've been thinking all along that Steven seems to have gone to some trouble to hide the trail of why he was in Vegas that day. But, maybe he didn't.

When GW and SA called him, he could have let the calls go to his voice mail. He TOLD them he was in Vegas. I guess he didn't say WHY (???), but he told GW where he was!

Doesn't sound suicidal or ready to walk away to me. Really.

 

[RubyRed]

A body was discovered in a burned out car today in Laughlin. No word yet as to who it might be.

But it did remind me of how crazy this town can be and why Steven's disappearance could be completely random.

I remember, like 5 years ago? 6 years ago? There was a Las Vegas weightlifting couple, Kelly Ryan and Craig Titus, who killed their assistant and then took her out into the desert in their own Jaguar and set the car on fire, leaving her body inside. This girl had worked for them and then they killed her. Lots of rumors swirling around about drugs, steroids, an affair, etc. The two tried to get away but got caught in Boston.

I totally forgot about that until I read about that burned out car today. What this has to do with Steven, I am not exactly sure but it does prove that bad things can happen in nice neighborhoods, as those two fitness freaks lived in a very nice part of town and still killed someone they knew well.

Going to throw this out there while I am at it. There has been a lot of ideas of why Steven would miss church that Sunday. My idea has been that he was looking to make a quick buck. But, could it be he thought he was going to church. . .like to somebody's house. . .like somebody used their "fake" interest in Steven's religious beliefs to lure him to their house? Lured him into something like a cult or something? I know that is TOTALLY off the board but, hey, Jim Jones successfully did it. He got a bunch of people to march into the middle of a jungle and kill themselves. And they were people very much like Steven, people looking for new answers in life.

Just sayin'. . .

bbm

Here is the link for the body that was found.

http://www.mynews3.com/story.php?id=17146&n=5035

 

[laytonian]

Here's a scenario:

Steven gets home around 10 after a fruitless day of job hunting and Christmas shopping. He finds somebody else already there. The person kills Steven -- has been planning it for some time. There's a struggle and the room gets messed up some. He drags Steven's body out the back door and into that open area right behind the house. Maybe there's a grave prepared already. Shoves the body in and covers it quickly.

Goes back to the house. Tidies up the room to cover up signs of the struggle, ?not knowing Steven's not usually tidy? Grabs Steven's keys and cell phone, and his spoofing device. Drives car to Vegas. Drives around so there will be pings registered.

He knows that when Steven doesn't show up for his church obligations, there will be calls. Uses the spoofing device to sound like Steven. When he has talked to enough people to establish that Steven is alive and well in Las Vegas, he drives to Henderson and parks the car in a previously chosen spot (a place where it's not likely to be towed or vandalized, because he wants it to be found). Walks away, probably to meet a cab.

I suspect he chose the place because he knew about the security cameras and knew he resembled Steven physically.

I don't know whether there's a possible perp to fit that profile. It just occurred to me after learning about those spoofing devices.

How about a little variation?

Steven gets home AGAIN (after being seen leaving at 10:30), and someone's waiting for him. Someone who has knowledge of Steven's travels in the past week. There's an altercation that turns physical. Steven is killed (perhaps strangled).

The perp takes the body to the wash, or into the hills - and buries it. Or hides it in a bush.

The perp wants to make sure that no one suspects what happens, so after tidying things up at the house, he drives the car far from the crime scene: to Vegas.

Calls come in on Steven's phone, which was left in the car. Knowing how Steven talks, and perhaps benefitting from bad cellphone reception, he's able to sufficiently convince callers that he's SK, that they suspect nothing. "I'm in Vegas" "Uh-huh" "no" "If you want".

He doesn't want to park in a place where security cameras will see him. So rather than a retail parking lot or casino, he drives to a residential area on the south edge of Vegas (that he's somewhat familiar with) and leaves the car there. Walks away. Fortuitously, there IS a security video - but everyone believes that it's Steven, because it was his car that was parked.

 

[Fairy1]

How about a little variation?

Steven gets home about 10, and someone's waiting for him. There's an altercation that turns physical. Steven is killed (perhaps strangled).

But WHY? Why would someone kill him?

The perp takes the body to the wash, or into the hills - and buries it. Or hides it in a bush.

So, he would still be in UT.

Calls come in on Steven's phone, which was left in the car. Knowing how Steven talks, and perhaps benefitting from bad cellphone reception, he's able to sufficiently convince callers that he's SK, that they suspect nothing. "I'm in Vegas" "Uh-huh" "no" "If you want".

Perp then drives the car to an area of Vegas that the perp is familiar with. He doesn't want to park in a place where security cameras will see him.

So, it would be someone who knew him fairly well.

But WHY SCA? There are plenty of places in UT where the perp could have left the car. Why in Henderson?

IMO, Steven's murderer wouldn't care if the car was found. He/She could have put him in the car and sent it over a cliff - in Utah!

 

[Sin City]

Sin City, What do you mean?

What I'm saying is that the "let's keep this amongst ourselves" approach that the PI and family is taking isn't working.

 

[Paulette]

But his parents identified the man on the video as Steven! Surely they know his walk, his clothes, etc. So, how did his car get to SCA? You really don't think there's a look-alike driving his car to SCA, do you?

 

[carbuff]

But WHY? Why would someone kill him?



So, he would still be in UT.



So, it would be someone who knew him fairly well.

But WHY SCA? There are plenty of places in UT where the perp could have left the car. Why in Henderson?

IMO, Steven's murderer wouldn't care if the car was found. He/She could have put him in the car and sent it over a cliff - in Utah!

The point of having the car discovered in Nevada would be to mislead people into looking for Steven there. Because if they think he left from there, nobody would be looking for a body or a murder in St. George.

In most cases of murder-with-dumping, the reason for that SCA neighborhood would be that the murderer had some connection to the place and felt comfortable there.

To me, those questions aren't objections, they're paths that need to be investigated.

 

[sbakker]

But his parents identified the man on the video as Steven! Surely they know his walk, his clothes, etc. So, how did his car get to SCA? You really don't think there's a look-alike driving his car to SCA, do you?

And wouldn't it be difficult to find a "Steven look-alike?" And then they trained him how to walk, what to wear, come on, that goes just a little far fetched to me.

 

[believe09]

I thought LLs were in residence the weekend he left for Vegas?

And no offense to the landlady, I find it a little peculiar that she was peeking in his room. He was a tenant-that is kind of a breach of privacy. And even untidy people have times when they pick up...if only to mess it all up again. JMO. So the tidy vs untidy thing...I dont know.

I think the springing off point is SCA-TH is adamant that he was not there to work on TH's behalf-I assume that this checks out with what LE/PI know about TH. Then SK had a gig of some kind or a meeting-and my new feeling is that it was a luncheon one because of the timing...and it was unlikely solely business because he was late as in apparently after the stroke of 12. If you were meeting a prospective Employer, I dont think you would walk in late...again jmo.

 

[Lato]

And wouldn't it be difficult to find a "Steven look-alike?" And then they trained him how to walk, what to wear, come on, that goes just a little far fetched to me.

So we have a man who looks like Steven to his family and friends.....park a car and walk in front of security cameras....after talking to church members twice that morning and telling them that he was in Las Vegas...and the cell phone that is known to be Stevens is used to answer those calls.

We don't know why he was there....it's a big empty hole....nothing on paper or in his computer...that we know of, but I think by now that there is much more that is known. I think his family and PI/LE know why
he was there. That is why they have all gone silent. That is why there is nothing of substance on the
facebook page. That is why there are no more news articles. We are in a holding pattern until something
breaks.

I am still a "he is Steven" advocate. Anything else is so darn complex.

 

[sbakker]

So we have a man who looks like Steven to his family and friends.....park a car and walk in front of security cameras....after talking to church members twice that morning and telling them that he was in Las Vegas...and the cell phone that is known to be Stevens is used to answer those calls.

We don't know why he was there....it's a big empty hole....nothing on paper or in his computer...that we know of, but I think by now that there is much more that is known. I think his family and PI/LE know why
he was there. That is why they have all gone silent. That is why there is nothing of substance on the
facebook page. That is why there are no more news articles. We are in a holding pattern until something
breaks.

I am still a "he is Steven" advocate. Anything else is so darn complex.

Maybe it is just wishful thinking, and I try to work through all the scenarios, but I am also a "he is Steven" advocate.