NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #14

[Fairy1]

I don't think the Koechers are intentionally hiding anything they think is relevant to the case. I do wonder if they haven't been forthcoming about little details that might not put them or Steven in the best light. I know there was talk about Steven feeling like a failure because he didn't have a good career/financial history. Was this a result of piecing together bits of information, or do we have anyone (Steven or someone else) stating that he felt like a failure or disappointment in some way?

I'm leaning toward the theory that he went to Henderson for some job opportunity that he thought was going to pull him out of the hole. Maybe he didn't tell anyone because he wanted to be able to say/show, "See, I did it for myself!" And then, I think he met with foul play. The suicide or walking-away-from-life theories just don't seem as likely to me, though that's just my gut feeling.

Okay then! How do you interpret all his travels just prior to going missing?

And.....what has you leaning toward foul play? What possible reason could someone have to kill Steven?

Just curious, since you're fairly new AND local.

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

Okay then! How do you interpret all his travels just prior to going missing?

And.....what has you leaning toward foul play? What possible reason could someone have to kill Steven?

Just curious, since you're fairly new AND local.

Well, I've said before, I wondered if he was having some sort of breakdown. He seems like a very sensitive person and his life didn't seem to be turning out the way he had hoped. I have wondered if all the driving was part of a manic phase or something like that, since it seems like it came out of the blue and wasn't part of his usual pattern. I know that mental illness can crop up in a persons 20s or 30s. I was also intrigued by the possibility that he went to Ruby Valley to somehow claim his lost love (or her family) and that might have been part of this episode (for lack of a better term).

I lean toward foul play only because he's gone and I don't think he killed himself or masterminded his own disappearance (even with help). There are about a billion other desolate places he could have dumped that car. Why choose a neighborhood at all? And when I look at the tape of him walking away, I just see a normal guy who looks like he has business in the area (and what with the papers under his arm or whatever). Remember, he doesn't know he's being videotaped (well, we surmise), so if he had some ulterior motive, I would expect some other kind of expression, gait or something not so. . .normal, iykwim?

 

[Fairy1]

Well, I've said before, I wondered if he was having some sort of breakdown. He seems like a very sensitive person and his life didn't seem to be turning out the way he had hoped. I have wondered if all the driving was part of a manic phase or something like that, since it seems like it came out of the blue and wasn't part of his usual pattern. I know that mental illness can crop up in a persons 20s or 30s. I was also intrigued by the possibility that he went to Ruby Valley to somehow claim his lost love (or her family) and that might have been part of this episode (for lack of a better term).

I lean toward foul play only because he's gone and I don't think he killed himself or masterminded his own disappearance (even with help). There are about a billion other desolate places he could have dumped that car. Why choose a neighborhood at all? And when I look at the tape of him walking away, I just see a normal guy who looks like he has business in the area (and what with the papers under his arm or whatever). Remember, he doesn't know he's being videotaped (well, we surmise), so if he had some ulterior motive, I would expect some other kind of expression, gait or something not so. . .normal, iykwim?

Thank you. I still would not rule out a breakdown. But I agree that he looks perfectly fine walking on that tape.

Then again, there are some who don't believe that even is Steven in the video!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

 

[laytonian]

Thank you. I still would not rule out a breakdown. But I agree that he looks perfectly fine walking on that tape.

Then again, there are some who don't believe that even is Steven in the video!

Can you reveal who doesn't believe it's him? Are they close to the family, or to Steven? It'd be interesting for those of us who wonder about it, to compare notes with them.

 

[webrocket]

The family is free to hide whatever it is they wish to hide. I've said it before but since this thread has gotten extremely long (longer than for most missing men for that matter) if they really want to find him, then it would be helpful to let the public know where they might look. His computer may have revealed information about drugs, gambling, sexual contacts (of any persuasion), he might have had an affinity for strip clubs (not sure how far he'd get with no money but we don't know how he spent his last few months rent), there might have been visits to websites about suicide, survivalism (I use that term to mean living by one's self and living off the land) or who knows what else?

none of this is necessarily illegal (except drugs) but by withholding info no one knows where to look. The family apparenly has released just some emails most of which dealt with job-hunting which is the image they'd like to portray - the industrious if not underemployed son.

 

[Paulette]

I think we can eliminate strip clubs, drugs, etc., because no one has ever come forward to suggest he engaged in that behavior.

In fact, all the testimonials from family and friends are that Steven was a great guy & had no perversions. He was dedicated to living a church inspired life.

Drugs and other perversions always come to light when a person is investigated. Someone always spills the beans. You can't do those things without someone knowing.

Why would he be in Anthem when he should have been in church? Because it was very important. That's the only thing that makes sense.

 

[Leomoon80]

I think we can eliminate strip clubs, drugs, etc., because no one has ever come forward to suggest he engaged in that behavior.

In fact, all the testimonials from family and friends are that Steven was a great guy & had no perversions. He was dedicated to living a church inspired life.

Drugs and other perversions always come to light when a person is investigated. Someone always spills the beans. You can't do those things without someone knowing.

Why would he be in Anthem when he should have been in church? Because it was very important. That's the only thing that makes sense.

Although I believe (in the main) that this is a correct statement about Steven and his character, I think the astrological natal belies it only insofar as he would have been one to also have desires and thoughts beyond what the public and family were aware of., imo.

He and the signs then points to one who was also a secretive person, but not to say how those secrets played out or who may have been involved.

Not everyone is inclined to share their life with everyone else even the closest of family members.

I know, I had such a daughter myself. And no one knew of her secret life

A lovely girl in every respect, just like Steven K. is.

Perhaps that is why i "feel" that IF the family knows and is holding back about the more secret part of his life, then this doesn't help us to solve this mystery by connecting the dots back to the secret parties who may be involved.

Notice, I said, "may"

 

[RubyRed]

I think we can eliminate strip clubs, drugs, etc., because no one has ever come forward to suggest he engaged in that behavior.

In fact, all the testimonials from family and friends are that Steven was a great guy & had no perversions. He was dedicated to living a church inspired life.

Drugs and other perversions always come to light when a person is investigated. Someone always spills the beans. You can't do those things without someone knowing.

Why would he be in Anthem when he should have been in church? Because it was very important. That's the only thing that makes sense.

I don't think we can rule out drugs. His erratic behavior and no money can be a sign of drug use. Drug use can be hidden. I am not saying it was, but the option is still there for me. And what was so important in SCA that he didn't share it other than to tell a few he was there.

 

[laytonian]

I don't think we can rule out drugs. His erratic behavior and no money can be a sign of drug use. Drug use can be hidden. I am not saying it was, but the option is still there for me. And what was so important in SCA that he didn't share it other than to tell a few he was there.

Living a church-centered life and then finding something "important" to do during church services, is a dichotomy. Right then, right there, church was not as important as whatever else was going on.

I don't think we can rule out *anything* based on testimonials; those are intended for the general public, and can deflect investigation.

gsmith told us that Steven was taking "a drug" and it made him feel better; we don't know if it was prescribed, one of Utah's food supplements intended to supplant medical treatment, or something illegal.

He moved far away from his family, to a town where no close friends or relatives lived. That's telling, and looks like the start of his new life.

That's the one thing that makes me wonder IF he left to start anew. St George could have been his training ground, to see how well he could get along without friends and relatives. We really don't know what other jobs he had there, besides matchbin (ending in May 2009) and passing out flyers for TH (we don't even know when he began doing that).

 

[webrocket]

Living a church-centered life and then finding something "important" to do during church services, is a dichotomy. Right then, right there, church was not as important as whatever else was going on.

I don't think we can rule out *anything* based on testimonials; those are intended for the general public, and can deflect investigation.

gsmith told us that Steven was taking "a drug" and it made him feel better; we don't know if it was prescribed, one of Utah's food supplements intended to supplant medical treatment, or something illegal.

He moved far away from his family, to a town where no close friends or relatives lived. That's telling, and looks like the start of his new life.

That's the one thing that makes me wonder IF he left to start anew. St George could have been his training ground, to see how well he could get along without friends and relatives. We really don't know what other jobs he had there, besides matchbin (ending in May 2009) and passing out flyers for TH (we don't even know when he began doing that).

At the outset I believed that the answer to why he was in SCA started when he left SLC for St. George, leaving a full time job for a location where he had no job lined up.

 

[laytonian]

Well, I've said before, I wondered if he was having some sort of breakdown. He seems like a very sensitive person and his life didn't seem to be turning out the way he had hoped. I have wondered if all the driving was part of a manic phase or something like that, since it seems like it came out of the blue and wasn't part of his usual pattern.

I know that mental illness can crop up in a persons 20s or 30s. I was also intrigued by the possibility that he went to Ruby Valley to somehow claim his lost love (or her family) and that might have been part of this episode (for lack of a better term).

It looks to me, that the driving began right after his family found out he was three+ months behind on the rent, and he had an unhappy phone conversation with his Dad.

You make a very good point; I'd have thought there'd have been some conversation between SK and AN before he set off on that drive. But it looks like he really DID just "drop in".

I lean toward foul play only because he's gone and I don't think he killed himself or masterminded his own disappearance (even with help). There are about a billion other desolate places he could have dumped that car. Why choose a neighborhood at all?

Because it seemed safer than anywhere else? A nice neighborhood, no security cameras like you'd see in a casino or retail parking lot. Very quiet there, with not a lot of activity.

And when I look at the tape of him walking away, I just see a normal guy who looks like he has business in the area (and what with the papers under his arm or whatever). Remember, he doesn't know he's being videotaped (well, we surmise), so if he had some ulterior motive, I would expect some other kind of expression, gait or something not so. . .normal, iykwim?

When I view the CAM3 video, I see someone who has his head down until the SUV passes. Like he doesn't want to be recognized, spotted or make eye contact. (You have to look carefully, but when he first appears in the frame, his head is tilted slightly down and he later raises it - like you would when walking down the street.)

 

[carbuff]

It looks to me, that the driving began right after his family found out he was three+ months behind on the rent, and he had an unhappy phone conversation with his Dad.

You make a very good point; I'd have thought there'd have been some conversation between SK and AN before he set off on that drive. But it looks like he really DID just "drop in".



Because it seemed safer than anywhere else? A nice neighborhood, no security cameras like you'd see in a casino or retail parking lot. Very quiet there, with not a lot of activity.



When I view the CAM3 video, I see someone who has his head down until the SUV passes. Like he doesn't want to be recognized, spotted or make eye contact. (You have to look carefully, but when he first appears in the frame, his head is tilted slightly down and he later raises it - like you would when walking down the street.)

I've thought that the head-down looks more like he's looking at something in his hand -- checking a text message, maybe. Or typing a message or phone number.

 

[laytonian]

At the outset I believed that the answer to why he was in SCA started when he left SLC for St. George, leaving a full time job for a location where he had no job lined up.

I don't think they were directly related, though. Naegle told us she understood that his moving to St George was probably at matchbin's suggestion (then he was let go about a month later).

But I agree it's all part of a thread. Maybe he was amenable to the move, because there was something else there he was attracted to.

 

[carbuff]

You are right, it is unwise to say it never happens, but it happens in ALL religions, its NOT a mormon thing. But your friend and family were WRONG, because it is not church imposed.

I'm not presumptuous enough to call my friend a liar when he describes his experience. He said both he and his family felt the church required them to cut ties, and I take him at his word that he felt that way. Of course another family and another congregation might have felt differently and behaved differently. Maybe things have changed in the years since my friend's experience. I don't know. I'm just saying that if Steven had personal issues relative to his religion, it might have influenced his behavior. As for instance choosing to leave because he was afraid he was going to be kicked out or rejected anyway.

 

[carbuff]

I don't think we can rule out drugs. His erratic behavior and no money can be a sign of drug use. Drug use can be hidden. I am not saying it was, but the option is still there for me. And what was so important in SCA that he didn't share it other than to tell a few he was there.

That's a good point, but I think if he had a serious drug problem, no amount of pride would have caused him to not use his grandmother's check or the deposited rent money. Drugs destroy integrity very quickly.

 

[laytonian]

I've thought that the head-down looks more like he's looking at something in his hand -- checking a text message, maybe. Or typing a message or phone number.

That's exactly what I thought at first, but apparently there's no matching cellphone activity.

If he wasn't avoiding eye contact with the SUV driver, perhaps he was looking at a piece of paper? A map, hand-drawn directions, or an ad he'd cut out of a newspaper or phone book?

 

[carbuff]

That's exactly what I thought at first, but apparently there's no matching cellphone activity.

If he wasn't avoiding eye contact with the SUV driver, perhaps he was looking at a piece of paper? A map, hand-drawn directions, or an ad he'd cut out of a newspaper or phone book?

Yeah, those would all fit the body language. Or tucking something into the front of the folder.

I could also interpret those gestures as shame. Not wanting to be seen because he didn't want to be there.

 

[SleuthyMcSleutherson]

Living a church-centered life and then finding something "important" to do during church services, is a dichotomy. Right then, right there, church was not as important as whatever else was going on.

Yes, but I don't think it's all that sinister really. If he thought this was a really important job opportunity that wasn't going to come again, I can see him justifying missing church for it. It appears this wasn't a common occurrence for him, so to me, it says this situation was *really* important, for whatever reason.

That's exactly what I thought at first, but apparently there's no matching cellphone activity.

If he wasn't avoiding eye contact with the SUV driver, perhaps he was looking at a piece of paper? A map, hand-drawn directions, or an ad he'd cut out of a newspaper or phone book?

Hmmm, that's really interesting. I'll have to take another look at the tape.

I'm not presumptuous enough to call my friend a liar when he describes his experience. He said both he and his family felt the church required them to cut ties, and I take him at his word that he felt that way. Of course another family and another congregation might have felt differently and behaved differently. Maybe things have changed in the years since my friend's experience. I don't know. I'm just saying that if Steven had personal issues relative to his religion, it might have influenced his behavior. As for instance choosing to leave because he was afraid he was going to be kicked out or rejected anyway.

The "church" is an interesting term because it can refer to the whole worldwide religion or to an individual congregation. It can mean the doctrines that are taught or the people that attend along with their individual biases and interpretations. It's hard to know what someone means when they say "the church," and how their experiences shape their view of "the church." I will say that cutting ties with someone is not what we as Latter-day Saints believe, based on the scriptures and words of our highest church authorities. Even excommunication for very serious sins (like adultery) isn't an excuse to cut ties and shun someone. They are invited to participate as fully as possible as they work toward coming back.

I'm definitely not saying that your friend didn't have the experience he describes, I just want to clarify that the Church (meaning the religion as a whole and its doctrines) does not support the apparent interpretation of those involved in your friend's situation. A job is not even something the church (meaning, the the greater church and its doctrines) would care about or involve itself in, unless it was something considered immoral (like being a *advertiser censored* actor while teaching Sunday School, as a silly and extreme example).

 

[Paulette]

Living a church-centered life and then finding something "important" to do during church services, is a dichotomy. Right then, right there, church was not as important as whatever else was going on.

I don't think we can rule out *anything* based on testimonials; those are intended for the general public, and can deflect investigation.

gsmith told us that Steven was taking "a drug" and it made him feel better; we don't know if it was prescribed, one of Utah's food supplements intended to supplant medical treatment, or something illegal.

He moved far away from his family, to a town where no close friends or relatives lived. That's telling, and looks like the start of his new life.

That's the one thing that makes me wonder IF he left to start anew. St George could have been his training ground, to see how well he could get along without friends and relatives. We really don't know what other jobs he had there, besides matchbin (ending in May 2009) and passing out flyers for TH (we don't even know when he began doing that).

There's a reason he neglected church to go to SCA. Perhaps the person offered him a job & said Sunday noon is the only possible time I can see you. Being in such a desperate financial situation would probably be the only explanation for a person that leads a church centered life.

Funny that gsmith didn't disclose what that drug was that Steven was taking. Why keep it a secret at this juncture?

He's one of the few people on the planet that no one has an unkind or telling word for.

 

[carbuff]

There's a reason he neglected church to go to SCA. Perhaps the person offered him a job & said Sunday noon is the only possible time I can see you. Being in such a desperate financial situation would probably be the only explanation for a person that leads a church centered life.

Funny that gsmith didn't disclose what that drug was that Steven was taking. Why keep it a secret at this juncture?

He's one of the few people on the planet that no one has an unkind or telling word for.

I don't think gsmith knew more than what he said.

Just a thought -- is there an LDS place of worship near where the car was found where SK might have gone for services? The phone is off for the next several hours, during the time services are normally held.