NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #17

[CONCRNED CTZN]

The last number called from his cell phone (to VM), was to his own cell phone number.

All calls to VM that show on the phone records, were placed to his own phone number.

So the information that we originally received about the last number being an AT&T voicemail number was incorrect? We spent a great deal of time discussing this in the beginning.

 

[laytonian]

On sprint I call my number too...but correct me if I'm wrong...the last number called from his phone was an AT&T voicemail number?

All calls to VM, were placed to his own phone number.
If his phone's like mine, you just press a couple of buttons and the phone calls automatically.

Someone else could call that same number, enter SK's phone number and leave a message instead of retrieving them. It's not a " scheme" per se, but would allow the caller to leave a vm without their number showing on the bill.

At any rate, now that I see how many calls he made it seems to be a mute point.

The most outgoing calls were on Dec 8th and 9th -- before he went to the temple. That day, he called several people in the St George area, his sister, and others in the 435 area code. A couple calls to the 801 area code.

Our source had identified some of the callers, and I've been able to identify a few more. Most seem to be members of his ward.

My interpretation?
He was trying to round up people to attend Ward Temple Night (Dec 9th).
When he couldn't get enough, he went himself -- which delayed his driving to Ruby Valley until AFTER he got out of the temple that evening.

 

[carbuff]

Have you been able to identify who he talked to on the evening of Dec. 7 when he was at the Christmas party?

 

[laytonian]

So the information that we originally received about the last number being an AT&T voicemail number was incorrect?

We spent a great deal of time discussing this in the beginning.

Yes - and some of us said that the logical thing was that he checked VMs by using the phone's built-in capabilities (ie, the phone would call his own phone number). Others' cell phones worked differently, so we had a variety of ideas.

Remember that at the time we were asking those questions, all Naegle personally had was a scrambled, unreadable copy of the phone records - and was getting the answers from family members.

No one purposely misstated anything to us; however, in reading back through many of the answers we were provided, it's obvious that the none of the answers gave any extra info. When we asked if Steven had ever called the VM number before, we were told "yes".

No one ever asked if the VM number he called, was his own.

VM Q&As.


It wasn't until we got the leaked phone records, that we started sorting things out.

 

[laytonian]

Have you been able to identify who he talked to on the evening of Dec. 7 when he was at the Christmas party?

No.
LL texted him twice, earlier in the day and then he checked VM at 5:51pm.

That's all that shows for Dec 7th.

I swear, I've been banging my head on these phone records ever since I got them, and I see nothing informative in them.

If anyone suspects GW, well....SK was sitting right there by him, at the party. They stood next to each other in the food line. If something happened between them, wouldn't it have been obvious to several others?

Here's what Fairy1 posted here, that Mrs K told them during the search: "Steven left that Christmas party his ward held VERY abruptly and after having been there just a short time. That info came from Deanne and she seemed concerned about it. But she pointed out that the next day was when he was out passing out flyers and when he helped the girls who were locked out. She doesn't seem to think it was depression, but I don't know if we should totally rule out something else. "

The problem with what Mrs K said? The party was on Dec 7th, and he helped the two children on the 11th -- so it wasn't "the next day".

ETA
Note that there's no mention of a phone call in Fairy1's report of what Mrs K said. The only mention I can find of a phone call associated with SK "abruptly" leaving the party, was just speculation posted here on WS.

THAT leads me to thinking something happened to upset him, at the party itself, unrelated to any phone call.

 

[carbuff]

Thanks for clarifying. We've had so much stuff go through our heads that it's all starting to turn to mush.

Was this the party where he also gave some cards to a woman to put up at her blind shop?

 

[laytonian]

Thanks for clarifying. We've had so much stuff go through our heads that it's all starting to turn to mush.

Was this the party where he also gave some cards to a woman to put up at her blind shop?

Has to be.
We confirmed that there was no other ward party that week.
Also, more than one of our LDS members confirmed that a ward party wouldn't have been held on a Sunday (Dec 6th).

 

[carbuff]

I'm thinking along the lines of, "I asked her for a date and she said she'd take my business cards? What is wrong with me????"

And then trying to rush out to see AN to ask her what was wrong with him.

And then giving up.

 

[laytonian]

I'm thinking along the lines of, "I asked her for a date and she said she'd take my business cards? What is wrong with me????"

And then trying to rush out to see AN to ask her what was wrong with him.

And then giving up.

Something like that.

He'd made the home teaching appointment the day before, at church -- and now, she sitting by him at the ward party. But there's other guys there, and he gets a bit jealous.

NOTE: Naegle and I discussed singles ward "home teachers". She said it's really not unusual for them to go teach singly, and in her case, they were her friends who'd visit, at other times. That makes sense.

Another idea:
What if he merely left "abruptly" to go get his business cards (not flyers), to give her that same evening -- but by the time he got back, she was gone or the party was over? Or maybe he had no business card sized flyers (sound familiar?)...and had to go get some made up?

 

[Fairy1]

Fairy1 & Laytonian, are you all thinking of the area that has ducks & wildlife, or further east into the swamps?

Fairy1 have you or anyone you know been out to these areas east of town?

I've never been into this area, and I'm floored to figure out who on earth goes into these areas. I've asked a couple of friends, who are locals, if they know anything about this "swamp" area.

You all really have me thinking hard about this "swamp" area. Does anybody know how deep the water is in these areas?

I'm a bit ashamed to admit this, because I've lived here for over 35 years and never even heard about this place! My kids would have loved it when they were little, but those days are gone...

http://www.accessclarkcounty.com/depts/parks/locations/pages/wetlands.aspx

This park is located at the far east end of Tropicana, which is northeast of the Russell/95 area. HOWEVER, I do believe there is just plain old swamp/marsh area closer to the Sam Boyd Stadium - south of this park, which would be on the far east end of Russell. Probably all part of the same wash system, though.

I honestly don't know much about either area. But I think someone could go undected for a while in the swamp near the stadium. It doesn't seem that would be the case in the wetlands park, which would have more foot traffic.

 

[Fairy1]

No.
LL texted him twice, earlier in the day and then he checked VM at 5:51pm.

That's all that shows for Dec 7th.

I swear, I've been banging my head on these phone records ever since I got them, and I see nothing informative in them.

If anyone suspects GW, well....SK was sitting right there by him, at the party. They stood next to each other in the food line. If something happened between them, wouldn't it have been obvious to several others?

Here's what Fairy1 posted here, that Mrs K told them during the search: "Steven left that Christmas party his ward held VERY abruptly and after having been there just a short time. That info came from Deanne and she seemed concerned about it. But she pointed out that the next day was when he was out passing out flyers and when he helped the girls who were locked out. She doesn't seem to think it was depression, but I don't know if we should totally rule out something else. "

The problem with what Mrs K said? The party was on Dec 7th, and he helped the two children on the 11th -- so it wasn't "the next day".

ETA
Note that there's no mention of a phone call in Fairy1's report of what Mrs K said. The only mention I can find of a phone call associated with SK "abruptly" leaving the party, was just speculation posted here on WS.

THAT leads me to thinking something happened to upset him, at the party itself, unrelated to any phone call.

I don't put much stock into the fact that Mrs. K could't keep the dates all straight. I can't either and I have that fabulous timeline at my fingertips!

I agree that whatever upset Steven happened at that party. If it was something that came up in a private conversation, I can understand why no one witnessed it. But someone did witness his leaving abruptly.

I don't believe it was due to rejection from a woman.

 

[laytonian]

I don't put much stock into the fact that Mrs. K could't keep the dates all straight. I can't either and I have that fabulous timeline at my fingertips!

I agree that whatever upset Steven happened at that party. If it was something that came up in a private conversation, I can understand why no one witnessed it. But someone did witness his leaving abruptly.

I don't believe it was due to rejection from a woman.

So if we think he was beset with emotions (due to rejection or jealousy), and his next two days were full of phone calls followed by a temple visit and then a trip to Ruby Valley: WHAT NEXT?

 

[Fairy1]

So if we think he was beset with emotions (due to rejection or jealousy), and his next two days were full of phone calls followed by a temple visit and then a trip to Ruby Valley: WHAT NEXT?

Maybe he tried to keep it under control, tried praying on it, then took off driving to get a grip and unintentionally wound up in RV. Maybe he just drove and drove and just found himself in that area and decided then to drop in? IDK!!!

It's possible he came to Vegas to resolve the matter that had upset him at the party days before.

 

[laytonian]

Maybe he tried to keep it under control, tried praying on it, then took off driving to get a grip and unintentionally wound up in RV. Maybe he just drove and drove and just found himself in that area and decided then to drop in? IDK!!!

It's possible he came to Vegas to resolve the matter that had upset him at the party days before.

.....and if he did go there, and found the object of his affection (whether the affection was returned or not) .....THEN WHAT?

 

[Fairy1]

.....and if he did go there, and found the object of his affection (whether the affection was returned or not) .....THEN WHAT?

IF Steven didn't arrive in LV until Sunday morning, I don't believe there was a face-to-face confrontation with the object of his affection. I do think it's possible the existing issue was exacerbated and led Steven to either walk away - and stay away. Or worse (which I have difficulty believing).

I don't see him running away and staying away from his family. I think it was someone else.

 

[laytonian]

IF Steven didn't arrive in LV until Sunday morning, I don't believe there was a face-to-face confrontation with the object of his affection. I do think it's possible the existing issue was exacerbated and led Steven to either walk away - and stay away. Or worse (which I have difficulty believing).

I don't see him running away and staying away from his family. I think it was someone else.

He could have driven down on Saturday (we know he went south aways that day).

I dunno. I just kinda wonder if he was following someone.

Damn. I see danger all around him.

 

[Fairy1]

He could have driven down on Saturday (we know he went south aways that day).

I dunno. I just kinda wonder if he was following someone.

Damn. I see danger all around him.

Yes. We do know he went south on Saturday day - but we don't really know how FAR south. I can't be sure he made it all the way to Vegas. But I'm also not sure when he left St. George after that K-Mart trip and the "sighting" at his house at 10 something - which I take with a boulder of salt.

IMO, his actions that entire week make it seem as though he may have been tormented. Trying to hold it together, trying to find the right answers, but not quite sure how.

Was the catalyst for everything we do know whatever happened at that party on the 7th?

 

[sbakker]

Yes. We do know he went south on Saturday day - but we don't really know how FAR south. I can't be sure he made it all the way to Vegas. But I'm also not sure when he left St. George after that K-Mart trip and the "sighting" at his house at 10 something - which I take with a boulder of salt.

IMO, his actions that entire week make it seem as though he may have been tormented. Trying to hold it together, trying to find the right answers, but not quite sure how.

Was the catalyst for everything we do know whatever happened at that party on the 7th?

I think it is very possible , that he was hurt by someone at the party. And maybe the driving around, took his mind off of it, and visiting people,and in deep thought trying to figure out what he should do. Then drove to Vegas and thought he would meet up with the person that hurt him. Hmmm, wonder who it could have been?

 

[Fairy1]

I think it is very possible , that he was hurt by someone at the party. And maybe the driving around, took his mind off of it, and visiting people,and in deep thought trying to figure out what he should do. Then drove to Vegas and thought he would meet up with the person that hurt him. Hmmm, wonder who it could have been?

Hmmm. I wonder.

That person may NOT have harmed him, physically. But I wonder about "otherwise." That person, if they exist, should be forthcoming about what may have occurred. IMOHO.

 

[Sin City]

I'm a bit ashamed to admit this, because I've lived here for over 35 years and never even heard about this place! My kids would have loved it when they were little, but those days are gone...

http://www.accessclarkcounty.com/depts/parks/locations/pages/wetlands.aspx

This park is located at the far east end of Tropicana, which is northeast of the Russell/95 area. HOWEVER, I do believe there is just plain old swamp/marsh area closer to the Sam Boyd Stadium - south of this park, which would be on the far east end of Russell. Probably all part of the same wash system, though.

I honestly don't know much about either area. But I think someone could go undected for a while in the swamp near the stadium. It doesn't seem that would be the case in the wetlands park, which would have more foot traffic.

Fairy1, You are exactly correct in your description of these areas. I took a little road trip today, and drove far east on Sunset, to Sam Boyd Stadium, and to the wetlands area.

The wetlands area is nice for walking dogs, short hikes, or biking. The paths are paved, and there are two large ponds. The water isn't very deep, and it's very much like a marsh. It was hot, but we enjoyed our little hike to the ponds.

Now, if one follows Sunset all the way east, and make a left it leads to the Henderson Water Reclamation facility then turn right this is a dirt road that seemed well traveled. Although, there weren't any other cars on the road. It went quite a ways in, and there seems to be illegal dumping that occurs in this area. Didn't see any water in these washes at this time. IMO a perfect area for hiding something.

Following Sunset east, and turning right (south) is open desert area. Some areas fenced off, and others not.

If one drives east on Russel one will arrive at the park behind Sam Boyd Stadium. There is a dirt road behind this park that leads to an archery range. There are signs posted. Once at the archery range it dead ends. It's a very basic range, with picnic tables, and porta-potties.