NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #20

[fridaybaker]

It looks to me in the timeline that on Dec. 9th Sk was in church until about 8PM. "Later", as stated in the timeline, he's grocery shopping when his father calls. This is the call where he learns that the landlord has called his folks re: his past-due rent and, I believe, he hangs up on his father. Then, off to Ruby Valley.

Perhaps this is nothing, but the sequence leads me to believe that his father's call prompted the drive. It seems odd that, were he planning a long drive after church that night, he'd go shopping for groceries beforehand, especially if they were just "regular old groceries", such as peanut butter, etc., for the kitchen, vs. things for a trip.

 

[SouthWestHiker]

He didn't go to Sacramento; he returned to St George.

Irrelevant. We are not discussing what he did that day but where he is now. Sacramento was on his mind in the week before his disappearence so unless you provide some tangible reason to exclude it, I dont see why you so aggressively shut down that line of discussion.

Interesting theory. Can you tell us about an "off the grid" mission, commune or other religious community (especially one that's LDS-based)?

Oh yes, hundreds! All those communities have their own webpage :banghead:

.. but just reading on LDS on wikipedia,

Independent Mormon fundamentalists
There is a large movement of independent Mormon fundamentalists. Independents do not belong to organized fundamentalist groups and do not generally recognize any man as their prophet or leader. Because Independents are not one cohesive group, they are very diverse in their beliefs and interpretations of Mormonism; therefore, their practices vary. Many Independents come from a background in the LDS Church, while others come from other Christian or Mormon fundamentalist backgrounds.

Independents rely upon personal inspiration and revelation to guide them; there is no ecclesiastical structure among the Independents, although Independents often socialize with each other and may meet together for religious services.

Statistically, it is difficult to estimate how many Independents there are, but a recent estimate indicates that there may be more independent fundamentalists than there are in any one of the formally organized polygamous groups and may number as many as 15,000. According to this informal survey, about half of Mormon fundamentalists, both those in groups and those outside of groups, currently practice polygamy. There is a large concentration of Independents in Utah, Arizona, and Missouri.

 

[fridaybaker]

"Singles wards" consists of single ward member, with "adult" leadership (PD, the Bishop, etc).
I put adult in quotes, because singles can be up to 30 years old or so.QUOTE]


Jmarple also referenced something similar to this. This sentence above just says so much. It speaks volumes. Shrieks volumes.

If I had to be in a "singles ward" as a 30 year old, well, I simply wouldn't. Maybe just me, but it would definitely be enough to make me leave, even if I had to leave my family, my "friends", my place of residence, and, if that were the only option to get out of the dang thing, my religion.

 

[SouthWestHiker]

To answer a few nice people all together:

SouthWestHiker, I dont know if you know but would SK be in a commune, mission etc and either be unaware of his father's death, or uncaring regarding it? I suppose it would depend on his ability to access news.

Yes, from what we know of Steven, I can't believe he would have ignored his father's passing. If he is still alive, he must not have been aware of it.

The only problem with this theory is how did he choose this "mission, commune or some other religious community"? When he left, he was a practicing and seemed to be faithful member of the LDS (Mormon) community. If he did choose to leave his faith, when and how did he research this new religion to jump in to? Do you get my drift? Since LE has checked his timeline, his computer, and his phone records, it would appear that they would have come across something that would lead them to believe that he was investigating another religion.

Exactly... I have no idea!
But how involved was LE search into those records? Unless you know what you are looking for, would you be able to quickly see the difference between LDS ward emails/stuff and LDS outside community stuff? Or it could be just in person discussions during those times we have no info for in the previous few months before Steven's disappearance.

I have no specific knowledge regarding this theory other than my personal hunch... but we have looked at the "he met foul play in SCA after the noon meeting" and have come up with very little so I think we need to keep our eyes open to other possibilities.

 

[sbakker]

"Singles wards" consists of single ward member, with "adult" leadership (PD, the Bishop, etc).
I put adult in quotes, because singles can be up to 30 years old or so.QUOTE]


Jmarple also referenced something similar to this. This sentence above just says so much. It speaks volumes. Shrieks volumes.

If I had to be in a "singles ward" as a 30 year old, well, I simply wouldn't. Maybe just me, but it would definitely be enough to make me leave, even if I had to leave my family, my "friends", my place of residence, and, if that were the only option to get out of the dang thing, my religion.

You do not have to be in a singles ward if you arer single. It is your choice.
When I was in college, I attended a single ward, because there are activities geared for singles. Dances, boating, bowling, dinners, etc. You may find someone to date. But its is a individuals choice to attend a singles ward. Alot of areas do not have them available.

 

[laytonian]

(respectful snippage)

But how involved was LE search into those records? Unless you know what you are looking for, would you be able to quickly see the difference between LDS ward emails/stuff and LDS outside community stuff? Or it could be just in person discussions during those times we have no info for in the previous few months before Steven's disappearance.

He didn't have internet access at the St George house, so he wasn't sending/reading emails on a regular basis.

Those who've looked at his computer and his yahoo email account, report that it was almost entirely composed of job search emails (mostly old).

The reason there was "nothing" found, is apparently that there really wasn't anything there. His communicated in person, or via his cell phone.

I have no specific knowledge regarding this theory other than my personal hunch... but we have looked at the "he met foul play in SCA after the noon meeting" and have come up with very little so I think we need to keep our eyes open to other possibilities.

We always have, like the larger possibility that he was sent there (or directed to park there) by someone he already knew.

 

[laytonian]

Irrelevant. We are not discussing what he did that day but where he is now. Sacramento was on his mind in the week before his disappearence so unless you provide some tangible reason to exclude it, I dont see why you so aggressively shut down that line of discussion.

That's a misinterpretation.

All I said is that there was only "one" reference to Sacramento, related during a conversation in Ruby Valley, and that he returned to St George.
People who knew Steven, knew nothing about Sacramento. No search was ever conducted there; no flyers.

The people in Ruby Valley told him a storm was coming in, so it wouldn't be a good day to drive to Sacramento. He returned to St George (verified). If he really intended to drive to Sacramento, wouldn't he have just waited in Nevada for the storm to pass - and driven to Sac?

A few days after that, he left his car in SCA. That's the opposite direction of a drive to Sacramento, and now he has no car.

Oh yes, hundreds! All those communities have their own webpage :banghead:

.. but just reading on LDS on wikipedia,

In all of my (considerable) years, living among the LDS, I've never known a strong LDS to enter a Fundy LDS group. They're not hidden; there's polygamists a few miles from my home. Whether he entered such a group or not, he'd still need a job, a car and all of the other accoutrements of life.

The polygamists (Kingstons, Jeffs, etc) do not proselytize nor do they solicit for new male members. They have an excess of men (lost boys). They consist of intermarried families. Their members are well-known.

The fundy groups are basically polygamists; how can a guy who can't meet even one "right girl", meet several - especially with no job, no car, no home.

Do you ever watch "Sister Wives"? My husband and son-in-law know Kody Brown (my daughter and son-in-law were invited to the wedding shown in the TV series).
If you live in Utah long enough, you know Fundamentalists, polygamists, LDS, and you learn the differences quickly.

Of course people are free to search Sacramento, and investigate FLDS. But are those logical directions?

Steven was known to seek warmth, rather than cold. A short trip to Sac is one thing; moving there (and leaving your stuff behind) is something else. Sacramento is much colder than St George.

As we've discussed over these many months:

After he disappeared, for 3-4 days, only two people called: his boss and his landlord. Several times each. We don't know the content of the calls, but the number of calls from one person, seemed to indicate someone was frantic to locate him.

 

[fridaybaker]

You do not have to be in a singles ward if you arer single. It is your choice.
When I was in college, I attended a single ward, because there are activities geared for singles. Dances, boating, bowling, dinners, etc. You may find someone to date. But its is a individuals choice to attend a singles ward. Alot of areas do not have them available.

Wow! What a relief. Thanks for the VERY important. Puts it in a "whole other" light for me.

 

[laytonian]

Laytonian, stop the tantalising! I can't see any elephant although I wish I could. Any hints?

The same thing I gave up trying to interest anyone in, after trying for months: the incoming call patterns after the car was parked through Dec 16th.

A couple of random calls.
No family calls.
No calls from church "friends"
But two people (boss and landlord) called incessantly, with one calling 9 times.

 

[SouthWestHiker]

The same thing I gave up trying to interest anyone in, after trying for months: the incoming call patterns after the car was parked through Dec 16th.

A couple of random calls.
No family calls.
No calls from church "friends"
But two people (boss and landlord) called incessantly, with one calling 9 times.

Yes, those multiple calls seem to be the most peculiar thing about the phone records... Why was this never pursued further by LE and the PE? I can't remember the details right now but wasn't the reasons given for those numerous calls by the landlord kinda non-sensical?

 

[laytonian]

Yes, those multiple calls seem to be the most peculiar thing about the phone records... Why was this never pursued further by LE and the PE? I can't remember the details right now but wasn't the reasons given for those numerous calls by the landlord kinda non-sensical?

On one level, it makes sense:
He'd already had one tenant skip out (Z), taking small kitchen appliances.
SK owed at least $1,000.

On another level, we know that SK was "doing work" for LL (our shorthand) yet we never knew what that work was. Was it chores to fix up the home (which really needs some spiffin'?), or errands requiring driving?

All I know, is that the calls increased after the car was parked.

 

[hollyblue]

They said possible that he had more severe mental issues, not definitively. They knew he was struggling finding a job, and they knew he had some issues struggling with SLC weather in the past- possibly indicating a hx of depression. Gsmith has explained that Steven struggled with loneliness. I believe the family said he stated his biggest goal was to have a wife and family, but hadn't acheived that yet, and couldn't pay his rent.

I think they were trying to think of anything that may have happened...with little information. They were pretty straightforward in the show that the family considered many possible scenarios, but now feel foul play makes the most sense, knowing their son. People here DO consider mental illness, it has been considered over and over again and is still considered. There is a big difference between saying something is possible and saying it is almost certain. In addition, it is important to note that if Steven had issues with depression, these are very different than psychosis. Evidence that possibly points to loneliness or depression is not evidence that points to a psychosis, unless someone is behaving in a way that is psychotic. Most of us don't feel there is enough information out there to explain his disappearance with certainty at present.

"Sounds like SK's family, more specifically his mother, have much more of a understanding and belief that mental illness is for the reason behind his disappearance." Not so, she said she now believes that Steven was hurt or killed. The only mental issues she considers in the interview are depression, suicide, accident or harm (possible blow to the head), or leaving to start a new life after having a mental disconnect. Mental disconnect is not an automatic euphemism for psychosis, although it can be. The way she puts it in context acknowledging his financial struggles and leaving to start a "new life" bring to mind for me more of a mental wall or disconnect to distance yourself from your life/family/friends because you cannot deal with the pressure anymore, more than a disconnect from reality itself. She does state that is not where she is at now in her thinking. A breakdown does not automatically mean psychosis either, people can have breakdowns due to depression or other mental disorders. If you like statistics and thinking about what is more common, it would be the latter, by far. Just saying.

Good breakdown of most common mental disorders here: http://www.mentalhealth.com/ also here http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20050606/mental-illness-common-in-us This source is best for stats- http://www.nimh.nih.gov/statistics/index.shtml#Mood

However I don't believe personally one can use frequency of occurrence to identify what happened to a specific person. I do have a question for you, although I understand if you don't want to answer. If someone shows signs of loneliness and depression, or cognitive functions issues such as an attention deficit, do you feel that it means there is a high likelihood that they have a psychotic disorder?

I think the confusion is between the words of mental illiness vs mental issues.

Yes, he had mental issues---how severe and dibilitating and could they have been some kind of mental illiness....we really don't know because he was never diagnosed. But, this was apparent before he went to SG, imo. Most people who are happy within a job get past their dislike of the weather. Most, if active, will find indoor activites to fill the few months or if capable to travel financially---take trips, even if for the week-end or holidays to get a whiff of good weather to sustain them. Did SK travel to S Utah before his move? He and his brother were active in volleyball. Did they travel there to participate in the league? It was also brought forward that SK was interested in music, but felt "it would would be a negative affect" (paraphrasing) in his life/goals. Is it possible SK didn't want to really persue a career in journalism but felt an obligation to do so? I'm going to have to go back and refresh my memory regarding SK's employment history after he graduated, which would be at the age of 22/23. He was 30 when he disappeared...that is 7 years and he only worked for the Trib for about a year and half. We know he worked in construction for a bit and also for FedX, but not sure now if that was during the summer when attending college or after. Either way, his career in journalism should have been much further along than a part-time night position. Either something was interfering with his drive or he just didn't have the passion to push him. I get the sense that the family knew of SK's issues and were trying to protect and help as any parent would, but were struggling with it as much as SK. SK could have perceived this as overbearing or interfering. He had tried to appease, but wasn't being true to himself. Internal strife and feeling pulled. Maybe? IDK.

 

[AlexLouise44]

I have a friend who was homeless in Henderson/Vegas a few years ago. He was homeless for about four years (he chose to stop paying his bills and basically go off the radar). I am going to ask him to see if he knows anyone who has seen Steven or knows of where he can be. It is very possible that he could be homeless!

 

[hollyblue]

RSBM

SouthWestHiker;6462577]To answer a few nice people all together:

Yes, from what we know of Steven, I can't believe he would have ignored his father's passing. If he is still alive, he must not have been aware of it.

We don't know what the relationship between the father and SK was like. Remember he hung up on his father. Did the parents ever take a trip to see SK when he was in SG? Take a care package with a friendly face of acceptance or was it a known fact to SK that they wanted him to return and were against his move all together. Come home. Had they called and spoken with his church leaders there?

Exactly... I have no idea!
But how involved was LE search into those records? Unless you know what you are looking for, would you be able to quickly see the difference between LDS ward emails/stuff and LDS outside community stuff? Or it could be just in person discussions during those times we have no info for in the previous few months before Steven's disappearance.

I have no specific knowledge regarding this theory other than my personal hunch... but we have looked at the "he met foul play in SCA after the noon meeting" and have come up with very little so I think we need to keep our eyes open to other possibilities.

Good point. He could have met someone outside the activities of church...or even within who expressed feelings similar to his if this was the case. Met someone online to discuss it (websites) or researched the avenues there also. If this was done at library we wouldn't know.

 

[laytonian]

I have a friend who was homeless in Henderson/Vegas a few years ago. He was homeless for about four years (he chose to stop paying his bills and basically go off the radar). I am going to ask him to see if he knows anyone who has seen Steven or knows of where he can be. It is very possible that he could be homeless!

How old was your friend? Where did he hang out?
Tell us more.

Did he use any of the services (Salvation Army, homeless shelters, etc)? Did he have to give his name when he receive services?

Fairy1 did a lot of work, driving around homeless camps in Vegas and talking to Matthew O'Brien. She has his book, too.
O'Brien wrote the book "Beneath the Neon", about the homeless in Vegas who primarily live in the flood channels beneath the city (tunnels).
His blog is beneaththeneon.com.

We contacted him, because he pretty much knows all the homeless, and didn't recognize Steven - but said he'd watch for him.

 

[hollyblue]

In SK's church speech, he states, "My brother drowning."

Did SK have a brother that drowned?

If so, when did this happen, how old was SK when it happened, what were the circumstances, was the brother younger or older and by how much?

I always wondered that too, seemed like it wasn't referred to as to what that meant, at least the things I've read so far. Does anyone have a link to the whole speech?

I'd like to read it also and don't fully remember all the discussions here regarding it.
Lady Leo, I just wanted to say "THANK YOU" :goodpost: on your transcribing the ID episode. Makes it easier for analyzing also. I wish I had done the same with the press conference. Even tho the article is there, the link to PC was deleted.

Here is an article written about 3 weeks after the press conference, but it has links to all the other articles in SK's case I thought the newbies might find useful. The author of the articles is a member here and a timeline within themselves. We thank you SJaxson.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/11852528/where-is-steven-koecher?redirected=true

 

[hollyblue]

Don't mess with MY elephant!

Seriously, we all have an elephant. I don't center on SCA; I try to think of why he got there (without having internet, strange calls that day or the previous day, etc, etc).

It's really easy to forget that no one knew when the car was parked; hundreds of hours of videos had to be looked out, to find it. THEN, what was released publicly, were just the parts that showed the car driving down SS, and the man walking away.

We don't see the realtor's clients. We don't see the realtor drive away. Because we just see a few seconds, we question the same things over and over -- and the videos **really were** reviewed by many, especially the hours surrounding the parking of the car.

I'm confused. Are you talking about when SK parked his car? The video showed the date and time from him approaching to his walking down Evening Lights. I'll have to go back and watch the video, because IIRC it did show the SUV passing the surveiliance camera going towards SK's car also. I didn't remember seeing it when released on the ID program tho. There was no break in the original video.

 

[believe09]

I have a friend who was homeless in Henderson/Vegas a few years ago. He was homeless for about four years (he chose to stop paying his bills and basically go off the radar). I am going to ask him to see if he knows anyone who has seen Steven or knows of where he can be. It is very possible that he could be homeless!

Great idea!! If it is the guy who looks like him and has neck tattoos, I think he was ruled out as being SK.

 

[believe09]

Thank you for answering my question, SWH!

 

[hollyblue]

laytonian;6463182]That's a misinterpretation.

All I said is that there was only "one" reference to Sacramento, related during a conversation in Ruby Valley, and that he returned to St George.
People who knew Steven, knew nothing about Sacramento. No search was ever conducted there; no flyers.

The people in Ruby Valley told him a storm was coming in, so it wouldn't be a good day to drive to Sacramento. He returned to St George (verified). If he really intended to drive to Sacramento, wouldn't he have just waited in Nevada for the storm to pass - and driven to Sac?

A few days after that, he left his car in SCA. That's the opposite direction of a drive to Sacramento, and now he has no car.

SK could have meant he was going to Sacramento at a later date also. I don't think the context was ever explained...just that he had mentioned a future trip there.

In all of my (considerable) years, living among the LDS, I've never known a strong LDS to enter a Fundy LDS group. They're not hidden; there's polygamists a few miles from my home. Whether he entered such a group or not, he'd still need a job, a car and all of the other accoutrements of life.

The polygamists (Kingstons, Jeffs, etc) do not proselytize nor do they solicit for new male members. They have an excess of men (lost boys). They consist of intermarried families. Their members are well-known.

The fundy groups are basically polygamists; how can a guy who can't meet even one "right girl", meet several - especially with no job, no car, no home.

Do you ever watch "Sister Wives"? My husband and son-in-law know Kody Brown (my daughter and son-in-law were invited to the wedding shown in the TV series).
If you live in Utah long enough, you know Fundamentalists, polygamists, LDS, and you learn the differences quickly.

Of course people are free to search Sacramento, and investigate FLDS. But are those logical directions?

Steven was known to seek warmth, rather than cold. A short trip to Sac is one thing; moving there (and leaving your stuff behind) is something else. Sacramento is much colder than St George.

As we've discussed over these many months:

After he disappeared, for 3-4 days, only two people called: his boss and his landlord. Several times each. We don't know the content of the calls, but the number of calls from one person, seemed to indicate someone was frantic to locate him.

I don't think they were referring to a FLDS group specifically, but an independent off shoot that may or may not have any FLDS background. It could be someone with a regular LDS background, but choosing to follow their faith without the dogma or stictures they may have perceived; like marriage to someone outside the LDS beliefs. Male or female.

Per this link, I can see a few reasons why he may have chosen Sacramento. The weather there is milder than SG, but very much differs from SLC's winters and inversions. Also, with SK's interest in water sports it would have been much closer to these than SG. The cultural atomosphere would also be an interest, imo, if he was thinking of abandoning the LDS faith. Very diverse.

I would think that someone contacted the press, newspapers and media links in case he had applied for a position there. ??

Sacramento is characterized by damp to wet, mild winters and hot, dry summers. The wet season is generally October through April, though there may be a day or two of light rainfall in June or September. The mean annual temperature is 61.1 °F (16.2 °C), with monthly means ranging from 45.8 °F (7.7 °C) in December to 75.4 °F (24.1 °C) in July. Summer heat is often moderated by a sea breeze known as the "delta breeze"

Sacramento was cited by Time magazine as America's most ethnically and racially integrated city in 2002

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento,_California#Geography