NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #21

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Regarding Steven's giving the reason he was leaving his job because he thought the people or the place were/was too "worldly" - that could have simply been a reason he made up thinking it would not offend anyone....

Now if we had the entire conversation that took place, that might be interesting.

Read a book about interviewing job applicants - it was mentioned that an applicant will have at his/her ready a stock answer to the inevitable question, "Why did you leave your last job", or "why to want to leave you job" .... Once they give their stock reply, and if they believe the interviewer is okay with it, the applicant tends to drop their guard and during conversation that follows will often let out the real reasons....

So I keep that in mind when hearing Steven's "too worldly" remark.
 
Regarding Steven's giving the reason he was leaving his job because he thought the people or the place were/was too "worldly" - that could have simply been a reason he made up thinking it would not offend anyone....

Now if we had the entire conversation that took place, that might be interesting.

Read a book about interviewing job applicants - it was mentioned that an applicant will have at his/her ready a stock answer to the inevitable question, "Why did you leave your last job", or "why to want to leave you job" .... Once they give their stock reply, and if they believe the interviewer is okay with it, the applicant tends to drop their guard and during conversation that follows will often let out the real reasons....

So I keep that in mind when hearing Steven's "too worldly" remark.

I thought he left his job because the winters in SLC were too dismal for him. Such a reply, about those dark winters, should not offend anyone. And he did move to St. George, and not Las Vegas, which could be a sign of downgrading to a simpler lifestyle.
 
sbakker,

I'm assuming you are implying that SK was not depressed? I, on the other hand, believe there is more evidence that he did suffer from some degree of depression. People and family around him had families and homes to take care of. They had jobs. Steven, at age 30, was probably wishing for the same and wondered why he wasn't in the same position. I think his visit to Ruby Valley was not an incidental stop on the way to California, but a planned visit to reunite with the female from his past, hoping for something to develop. I'm unsure of the exact location of that female's parents' farm, but 80 miles out of the way from his Sacramento trip seems a bit excessive for a casual visit to a friend not seen for some time. I can completely relate to what SK might have been going through. I'm pretty sure my parents weren't aware of the state I was in, or they would have tried to help. Luckily my life has completely turned around.

But regardless that I believe SK might have been suffering from depression, that doesn't prove he had suicidal thoughts. He might have had them, he might have not. Had SK not been depressed, then suicide could probably be ruled out.

I am not at all implying that he did not have depression. He had several reasons to be depressed. And many of us would too, if we did not have a job bringing in a good wage, no close friends, living in a new area, no girlfriend or wife, etc.

His social life seemed to be church and church activities. A few people that knew him said, that when he gave lessons at church, he would stop, look blank, then move on. They said it was strange.

Accross the street from where he lived, there is a fellow on the list for being a sexual predator . Not saying anything about him, but just another person that should be looked at. My daughter, talked to two people in that neighborhood, that were NEVER questioned. They did NOT even know he was missing- I call that weird.
 
Regarding Steven's giving the reason he was leaving his job because he thought the people or the place were/was too "worldly" - that could have simply been a reason he made up thinking it would not offend anyone....

Now if we had the entire conversation that took place, that might be interesting.

Read a book about interviewing job applicants - it was mentioned that an applicant will have at his/her ready a stock answer to the inevitable question, "Why did you leave your last job", or "why to want to leave you job" .... Once they give their stock reply, and if they believe the interviewer is okay with it, the applicant tends to drop their guard and during conversation that follows will often let out the real reasons....

So I keep that in mind when hearing Steven's "too worldly" remark.


I talked to SK's mom, in Aug. (he went missing in Dec.) we were at areunion. I asked her about their fam, said all was well, but Steven had moved to St. George, and could not find work. But that he liked it there.

I have left jobs, I have really liked, but having A.D.D. alot of times, I could not comprehend what i should be doing. Feeling self-conscious, I would make a excuse, to get out of the job. So, maybe that is how he felt.
 
I was discussing this case with someone who informed me that during the search of SK's room, there were several filled out job application forms located. Did the LE follow up with the more recent employers, regarding any connection between them and the SCA area? Thank you.
 
Respectfully sniped or snipped or whatever I'm trying to do here.....

I am not at all implying that he did not have depression. He had several reasons to be depressed. And many of us would too, if we did not have a job bringing in a good wage, no close friends, living in a new area, no girlfriend or wife, etc.

His social life seemed to be church and church activities. A few people that knew him said, that when he gave lessons at church, he would stop, look blank, then move on. They said it was strange..

Thanks for the help on how to quote, OldSteve and MarioM!

I think that what Sbakker here says is interesting and something several of us have wondered about: "..... no close friends......". Yes, he apparently complained to his sister or a friend about his evening hours at the Salt Lake job keeping him from being able to spend time with his friends. Then he moved to St. George where he didn't know anyone. I do not know if that is a symptom of ADD/ADHD but I'd say that it's not excellent decision making. In fact, I've often thought that, at least given what we know about his case, those facts point to very poor decision-making capabilities:

1) The man goes from a job he does have, albeit not great hours, to a place where he doesn't have a job, for better weather. Interesting, considering that he apparently doesn't have any savings, either.
2) The man decides that he doesn't have time to spend with his good friends because he has to work evenings so he moves to a place where he has no friends at all.
3) He decides to visit a woman's parents (the woman, by the way, seems to be fairly explicit in her facebook comments that she hardly knew him) for...... what? To rekindle a relationship that never was? He spends gas on about a thousand miles of driving even though he's virtually penniless? Surely, he didn't go to find out if she was interested in him? A guy without a job? (handing out fliers is not a job.) What man goes to "pitch himself", so to speak, just when he's out of work? Doesn't he get the job first?

I could go on, IMO, either there are many things we don't know about here, or SK was, indeed, lacking somewhat in the decision-making arena. For what it's worth.
 
Re: ADD/ADHD: The comment mentioned by Sbakker above, that SK would sometimes, during teaching, stop, look blank, then move on. I don't think that I've heard that information before this. Does anyone here think that this is a symptom of ADD/ADHD. I kind of guess it is, but I just don't know much about it. I do know some people who've been diagnosed with it, but I can't think of any of them doing the above.

MarioM's comment about "gifted" children and CEO's having ADD/ADHD remind me of something: People who have autism are often highly intelligent. Now, wait. I don't mean full blown, sitting on the floor, rocking back and forth autism. I mean the kind that is often just barely preceptible. I know there's a "mild" form called Aspbergers, (sp?) but I think that there are sometimes people who may even have more mild symptoms than that. But autism is more oriented toward a difficulty communicating with people and one's surrounding, I think, so perhaps I'm off there. The ADD/ADHD description of creative thinkers and CEO's just reminded me of autism, because there are some very, very intelligent and highly functioning people with it, but they do have some difficulties. I guess I'll try to learn some more about ADD.
 
Re: ADD/ADHD: The comment mentioned by Sbakker above, that SK would sometimes, during teaching, stop, look blank, then move on. I don't think that I've heard that information before this. Does anyone here think that this is a symptom of ADD/ADHD. I kind of guess it is, but I just don't know much about it. I do know some people who've been diagnosed with it, but I can't think of any of them doing the above.

MarioM's comment about "gifted" children and CEO's having ADD/ADHD remind me of something: People who have autism are often highly intelligent. Now, wait. I don't mean full blown, sitting on the floor, rocking back and forth autism. I mean the kind that is often just barely preceptible. I know there's a "mild" form called Aspbergers, (sp?) but I think that there are sometimes people who may even have more mild symptoms than that. But autism is more oriented toward a difficulty communicating with people and one's surrounding, I think, so perhaps I'm off there. The ADD/ADHD description of creative thinkers and CEO's just reminded me of autism, because there are some very, very intelligent and highly functioning people with it, but they do have some difficulties. I guess I'll try to learn some more about ADD.

Okay, I am noy trying to sound like a no-it-all, but I have a daughter with autism. Not Asphbergers. And I work in a school district with disabled young adults.

What you are saying, has been brought up before, about a possible disability of some sort. And about his talking, then stopping,has been brought up to. Another person , I believe GS mentioned it.

With Asphbergers, often time people do not know they have a disability. Others thinks they are just odd. They are often naieve. Many get married. They are very bright, but socially odd often That being said, my 37 yr. old autistic daughter is VERY social.
My daughter is in the longest autism study in the world. It started with UCLA and Univ. of Utah. There are many people coming in that are older now thinking they have Asphbergers. My sister in-law thinks her hubby is, he's in his late 50's, good job, socially very odd. I remember being young thinking some people I went to school with were odd-now I think they may have had this disability

Anyways, back to Sk, I do think he had some type of diability. I think he was trusting, a little naieve, had a hard time in the work place, for lack of comprehension,not fitting in, not comfortable, not understanding the work concept, maybe feeling some pressure keeping up. MY opinions only.
 
"disappeared amid a family feud"
"had 14 kids, suffered from mental health problems and had split several times before"

Very different from Steven's actions in that he had no "warm up" attempts at disappearing...I think at least?

Absolutely different circumstances. But the story illustrates that a person can live "off the grid" for an extended period of time. Even with a known history of mental illness.
 
Re: ADD/ADHD: The comment mentioned by Sbakker above, that SK would sometimes, during teaching, stop, look blank, then move on. I don't think that I've heard that information before this. Does anyone here think that this is a symptom of ADD/ADHD. I kind of guess it is, but I just don't know much about it. I do know some people who've been diagnosed with it, but I can't think of any of them doing the above.

MarioM's comment about "gifted" children and CEO's having ADD/ADHD remind me of something: People who have autism are often highly intelligent. Now, wait. I don't mean full blown, sitting on the floor, rocking back and forth autism. I mean the kind that is often just barely preceptible. I know there's a "mild" form called Aspbergers, (sp?) but I think that there are sometimes people who may even have more mild symptoms than that. But autism is more oriented toward a difficulty communicating with people and one's surrounding, I think, so perhaps I'm off there. The ADD/ADHD description of creative thinkers and CEO's just reminded me of autism, because there are some very, very intelligent and highly functioning people with it, but they do have some difficulties. I guess I'll try to learn some more about ADD.

A few folks who know Steven mentioned this characteristic in his speech. IIRC, they all described it as unusually long pauses in places where pauses didn't belong. His Mom said she thought it became more pronounced when he returned from his mission in Brazil. The theory was that it was more of a challenge for him to speak English after speaking Portugese while on his mission.

Though, (again IIRC), it had been some years since his mission and I remember someone saying they felt the "pausing" had gotten worse.
 
3) He decides to visit a woman's parents (the woman, by the way, seems to be fairly explicit in her facebook comments that she hardly knew him) for...... what? To rekindle a relationship that never was? He spends gas on about a thousand miles of driving even though he's virtually penniless? Surely, he didn't go to find out if she was interested in him? A guy without a job? (handing out fliers is not a job.) What man goes to "pitch himself", so to speak, just when he's out of work? Doesn't he get the job first?

I could go on, IMO, either there are many things we don't know about here, or SK was, indeed, lacking somewhat in the decision-making arena. For what it's worth.

I would like to comment about the above statement.

I don't think SK was heading to Ruby Valley to rekindle a relationship, since there wasn't one to rekindle. To me it appears SK had trouble meeting women, and he was smitten with love, or a crush, with this female. SK tried his best at getting a job without success, and before he made his next drastic move, whatever he had in mind, he needed to prove to himself that there was no option in getting involved with this former acquaintance, just to avoid any regrets or something that may hold him back. He might have been searching for any reason to continue his current life(style), and money wasn't an object at that late point of his game. (If you're broke, spending/charging extra couple of hundred dollars isn't going to make a difference in your financial situation.) He believed in simple existence, and maybe was hoping this female would have the same outlook on life. Maybe she came across that way when he knew her back when. One doesn't need a job before he tries to pick up a girl. There are plenty of unemployed single people, male and female, looking for a relationship. Dating isn't only for the ones holding a job.
I believe people are making a bigger deal of SK's visit to Ruby Valley than what it really was, his way of searching for love.

That's my two cents.
 
Re: ADD/ADHD: The comment mentioned by Sbakker above, that SK would sometimes, during teaching, stop, look blank, then move on. I don't think that I've heard that information before this. Does anyone here think that this is a symptom of ADD/ADHD. I kind of guess it is, but I just don't know much about it. I do know some people who've been diagnosed with it, but I can't think of any of them doing the above.

Someone with ADD/ADHD may be, and probably is, more scatterbrained than the average person. Since the mind races at an elevated pace, always thinking of something, the person can easily get distracted and loses focus. SK might have exhibited such behavior with the reported pauses during his teachings.

MarioM's comment about "gifted" children and CEO's having ADD/ADHD remind me of something: People who have autism are often highly intelligent. Now, wait. I don't mean full blown, sitting on the floor, rocking back and forth autism. I mean the kind that is often just barely preceptible. I know there's a "mild" form called Aspbergers, (sp?) but I think that there are sometimes people who may even have more mild symptoms than that. But autism is more oriented toward a difficulty communicating with people and one's surrounding, I think, so perhaps I'm off there. The ADD/ADHD description of creative thinkers and CEO's just reminded me of autism, because there are some very, very intelligent and highly functioning people with it, but they do have some difficulties. I guess I'll try to learn some more about ADD.

People with Asperger's have social issues. They are often infatuated with something (trains, cars, space, cemeteries, castles, etc.) and know everything about that infatuation. And they must have a routine. Does anyone know whether SK fit that mold?
 
Wow, I'm having an unusally "SK" day here.

In reading the seveal recent posts from both Sbakker and Fairy1, I think that I detect something which I hadn't before in my attempts to play "catch up" and reading through the pages and pages of SK threads here. I really dismissed the previous mention I'd read about SK's personality involving something slightly different. Now it sounds to me like there was something quite different, or at least quite noticeable, about Steven. Several people noticed inappropirate pausing in speech that had become worse in recent years.

I will say this: My husband lived in Brazil for 10 years and he did have some difficulty speaking English fluently for a while upon his return. However, this didn't last long (although he does still stop at green lights and "goes" on red -odd, I know.)

With SK, he only spoke Portuguese for two years and his mother said he had some of it before he left. That certainly makes it sound like whatever "it" is, "it" isn't due to the mission.

I'm feeling like whatever "it" is, has more to do with everything else about Steven that (at least I've) previously thought. Here's a question: All of the comments about him that I've read from friends/family stress how great a guy, good friend, fun, devout and/or involved in his church, etc. he was. I wonder if anyone ever questioned his judgement before. His decision making.
 
Someone with ADD/ADHD may be, and probably is, more scatterbrained than the average person. Since the mind races at an elevated pace, always thinking of something, the person can easily get distracted and loses focus.

My mistake. If my post re: this didn't make sense -I thought you meant that an ADD/ADHD person would have MORE focus. I see now, makes more sense!
 
MarioM -do you mean "lose focus" as in inappropriate pausing during speech????
 
I would like to comment about the above statement.

I don't think SK was heading to Ruby Valley to rekindle a relationship, since there wasn't one to rekindle. To me it appears SK had trouble meeting women, and he was smitten with love, or a crush, with this female. SK tried his best at getting a job without success, and before he made his next drastic move, whatever he had in mind, he needed to prove to himself that there was no option in getting involved with this former acquaintance, just to avoid any regrets or something that may hold him back. He might have been searching for any reason to continue his current life(style), and money wasn't an object at that late point of his game. (If you're broke, spending/charging extra couple of hundred dollars isn't going to make a difference in your financial situation.) He believed in simple existence, and maybe was hoping this female would have the same outlook on life. Maybe she came across that way when he knew her back when. One doesn't need a job before he tries to pick up a girl. There are plenty of unemployed single people, male and female, looking for a relationship. Dating isn't only for the ones holding a job.
I believe people are making a bigger deal of SK's visit to Ruby Valley than what it really was, his way of searching for love.

That's my two cents.

I would never have looked at it this way, but I can see how what you say makes sense. I think I may have kind of an "old fashioned" approach to dating: I view it more as "courting" -a path to marriage and that neither man nor woman should even be thinking about it unless they're ready to marry, support a family, etc. However, could be I'm just a fuddy duddy..... :)

Truly, though, the way you put it I can see that your theory is a viable possibility. Here's a BIG problem in sleuthing: People are all different! If everyone were just like moi I'd have everyone tracked down pronto!
 
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