GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #4

[Miss Muffet]

EN was kicked out temporarily from his mom's that night rather than permanently, which one of the EN's said EN repeatedly would repeatedly get temporarily banned from her home and we know EN was at her home on 2/13 because the neighbor talked to EN and later he was arrested there.

EN doesn't need to be kicked out of his mother's house permanently or long term for her being fed up with his lifestyle and do something that would enrage people involved in illegal activity. That can happen with being kicked out repeatedly too.

I think there was the ongoing feud between Meyers and a separate Audi crew, not that the Meyers had threatened EN previously. I'm guessing that EN mistook the Buick for someone else's car given how it was at night possibly some distance away, EN could have been intoxicated to some degree plus if EN has poor vision I don't think he'd wear glasses to correct it, which could all go to him having a false panic. I don't see a reason for EN to voluntarily place himself in the neighborhood right by those who have a death threat out on him. I think it was just very unfortunate set of circumstances that it turned out EN's possibly new friends ended up being arch-enemies of the Meyers, which EN just got caught in the middle of.

That doesn't add up since EN's family was threatened. I agree there are two crews. The Audi crew and the BM's crew (which likely includes nonfamily members). I think EN is on the periphery of his affiliation with the Audi crew and he got pulled into this. But I'm certain EN definitely knew who was involved in threatened his family.

EN's family being threatened isn't a reason for him to avoid the neighborhood. It's his neighborhood. He lives there. Since he is younger and doesn't drive, the park is where he hangs out. I'll bet he has never had problems with the BM crew at the park since the BM crew is older and have licenses. They're beyond the age of just hanging at the park.

EN might not have believed BM would do anything to him and his family until that night when he saw their car circling around the parking lot in a way it had never done previously. Seeing the buick normally head to the store and such would be normal, but what he saw that night wasn't normal.

There's no way EN didn't know that was the M's car IMO. If he didn't at the park, which he did, he certainly learned it when Audi dude showed up and told him he had an encounter with TM and KM. When the buick returned with RM and TM, he could have thought it was only RM and KM since most of the time was spent with the Audi trying to escape at high speeds.

EN doesn't need to be oblivious of the Ms for this to be self defense. IMO, his being aware the M's are associated with the threats against him, and RM returning with intentions of vigilante justice, is reason for EN to fear for his life throughout the whole encounter. We can entertain he wasn't the one driving and didn't have a say in where the car went. Even then, he would fear for his life with the Audi dude placing him in a situation that involved someone who has been threatening his family.

After all, BM brandished a handgun and was pursuing them at high speeds for most of the chase. That alone is enough to fear for your life if that same person had been threatening your family recently.

MY ENTIRE POST IS MY THEORY, OPINION, ETC., based on drug rumors reported in the media, media reports of statements made by RM, and the warrant.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

EN doesn't need to be kicked out of his mother's house permanently or long term for her being fed up with his lifestyle and do something that would enrage people involved in illegal activity. That can happen with being kicked out repeatedly too.


That doesn't add up since EN's family was threatened. I agree there are two crews. The Audi crew and the BM's crew (which likely includes nonfamily members). I think EN is on the periphery of his affiliation with the Audi crew and he got pulled into this. But I'm certain EN definitely knew who was involved in threatened his family.

EN's family being threatened isn't a reason for him to avoid the neighborhood. It's his neighborhood. He lives there. Since he is younger and doesn't drive, the park is where he hangs out. I'll bet he has never had problems with the BM crew at the park since the BM crew is older and have licenses. They're beyond the age of just hanging at the park.

EN might not have believed BM would do anything to him and his family until that night when he saw their car circling around the parking lot in a way it had never done previously. Seeing the buick normally head to the store and such would be normal, but what he saw that night wasn't normal.

There's no way EN didn't know that was the M's car IMO. If he didn't at the park, which he did, he certainly learned it when Audi dude showed up and told him he had an encounter with TM and KM. When the buick returned with RM and TM, he could have thought it was only RM and KM since most of the time was spent with the Audi trying to escape at high speeds.

EN doesn't need to be oblivious of the Ms for this to be self defense. IMO, his being aware the M's are associated with the threats against him, and RM returning with intentions of vigilante justice, is reason for EN to fear for his life throughout the whole encounter. We can entertain he wasn't the one driving and didn't have a say in where the car went. Even then, he would fear for his life with the Audi dude placing him in a situation that involved someone who has been threatening his family.

After all, BM brandished a handgun and was pursuing them at high speeds for most of the chase. That alone is enough to fear for your life if that same person had been threatening your family recently.

MY ENTIRE POST IS MY THEORY, OPINION, ETC.

I do not think that the Meyers would have threatened EN's family's life without the Meyers knowing he's affiliated with the Audi crew. I think that EN was afraid of other people - he had a history of being beat up - were out for him. RM seems to be saying as much that the Meyers didn't realize EN was that bad until the day of the shooting, which seems to be contrary to the Meyers already having threatened the life of EN's family.

 

[SStarr33]

I hadn't seen that press release before, but it was sent out within hours of the shooting. In the week since then from then to the complaint we don't know one way or the other if they recovered another bullet on scene that struck TM someplace else in addition to there being a bullet in TM's head or that it was the same bullet. The statement from the complaint is that this bullet was something CSI found on-scene during their investigation rather than that it was a bullet recovered from TM at the hospital. It doesn't take any conspiracies to figure there might have been a bullet in TM's head and also a subsequent bullet recovered by CSI sometime later during the course of their investigation. It never crossed my mind to even consider that if there was a second bullet that there was some conspiracy behind and I don't think anyone else has said that either, so I don't know where that is coming from.

In the video with two of the sons, Matthew says the bullet went all the way through her head.

 

[BellaVita]

"mommy knew who this was"

That is clear and unmistakable. Mommy couldn't have learned later from social media or from rumors in the neighborhood. The ONLY possible interpretation of that line is that TM knew who it was that very night, when she left the house with her armed son.

Just watched the video on facebook for the first time. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that the M's knew EN was in that car. The little doubt I did have has been removed completely. The theory that there was a solo Audi driver road rage incident before he went to get EN in the park and that EN just happened to be in the car without the M's realizing it is no longer a workable theory, IMO. In the video, RM reminds me of George Anthony. A lot of double talk, grandiosity, making up stuff and saying how BM is such a victim, everyone's against them but hopefully they've learned their lesson because now RM's explained it all-only to his own satisfaction, however. I wonder if RM was sort of left out of the loop on a regular basis as far as his family. Maybe on the outside looking in. IDK. I think maybe. IMO.

 

[BellaVita]

That's pretty much what I think. BM set out with his gun that night with nefarious intent.

IMO, the purpose wasn't to defend his mom & sister against some random road rager. He had a specific target in mind, and he went hunting for that target. I think that target was EN. Because EN saw the Buick and thought "those kids" were "after" him.

I'm still not sure who was in the car with him. TM? KM? One of the other brothers? I think TM had to be -- I think we're all pretty sure that she was the person who was shot "at the car."

I think that sums up the gist of it very well. Thank you.

 

[sonjay]

In the video with two of the sons, Matthew says the bullet went all the way through her head.

I haven't seen that video. Do you have a link, please?

 

[sonjay]

Just watched the video on facebook for the first time. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that the M's knew EN was in that car. The little doubt I did have has been removed completely. The theory that there was a solo Audi driver road rage incident before he went to get EN in the park and that EN just happened to be in the car without the M's realizing it is no longer a workable theory, IMO. In the video, RM reminds me of George Anthony. A lot of double talk, grandiosity, making up stuff and saying how BM is such a victim, everyone's against them but hopefully they've learned their lesson because now RM's explained it all-only to his own satisfaction, however. I wonder if RM was sort of left out of the loop on a regular basis as far as his family. Maybe on the outside looking in. IDK. I think maybe. IMO.

I totally agree.

Zero doubt that the Meyerses knew EN was in the Audi. That solo Audi driver road rage story never was a workable theory; there's never been any reason to think it ever happened.

I'm still waiting to see any evidence whatsoever that there was any driving lesson that night, or any road rage incident.

IMO, there is no such evidence because those things didn't happen.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Just watched the video on facebook for the first time. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that the M's knew EN was in that car. The little doubt I did have has been removed completely. The theory that there was a solo Audi driver road rage incident before he went to get EN in the park and that EN just happened to be in the car without the M's realizing it is no longer a workable theory, IMO. In the video, RM reminds me of George Anthony. A lot of double talk, grandiosity, making up stuff and saying how BM is such a victim, everyone's against them but hopefully they've learned their lesson because now RM's explained it all-only to his own satisfaction, however. I wonder if RM was sort of left out of the loop on a regular basis as far as his family. Maybe on the outside looking in. IDK. I think maybe. IMO.

I do think there was some incident on Cimarron. From the same mommy speech is this: "She just didn't want it to come back here. She tried to get him to go somewhere else." With either one-trip or two-trips there has to have been some preceding incident for this to make sense for them to either go back and get their gun or to pull out their gun in the car.

 

[al66pine]

....ongoing conflict that was a serious threat, not only to the M's but to E too.
EN had been telling his two friends that someone was threatening to kill his mother and her baby. The female EN witness shared that in the past tense at the start of her statement where she's stating how long she's known EN and her relationship with him. She wasn't saying EN said someone said they were going to kill EN's mother and baby that night.
....

sbm bbm

re bbm Source, link, pls?
Who? Same two friends that he talked w & visited in person the next morning, arriving 3:00 -3:30am?
i.e., friends quoted in warrant?
Or other friends?

When?
When did EN tell them --- next morning, or days, weeks, months before then?
When did friends make stmt to LE (that EN told them) --- date of friends-LE convo in warrant ?

Trying to figure out if EN told friends about threat to his Mother & baby - only after the shooting,
or before then. After shooting & before date of friends-LE convo in warrant, did EN have opp to tell friends
for the first time about the threat to mom & baby?

IOW, did EN make up/could he have made up threat after the shooting? Anyone?

ETA: Was threat to kill made specifically in retaliation for something EN had done?
If so, what - a specific drug deal gone bad? Gang gripe about turf/territory? Simply dealing drugs in neighborhood?
Or just a 'threat'? Anyone?

 

[sonjay]

I do think there was some incident on Cimarron. From the same mommy speech is this: "She just didn't want it to come back here. She tried to get him to go somewhere else." With either one-trip or two-trips there has to have been some preceding incident for this to make sense for them to either go back and get their gun or to pull out their gun in the car.

I agree there was some preceding incident. BM had his gun and set out to hunt down EN that night. You don't do that without some preceding incident.

But that preceding incident didn't necessarily happen that very night, immediately prior to the car chase and shooting.

Remember, RM statement is full of lies, truths, and half-truths.

Once EN was arrested, RM had to admit that the Meyerses knew EN and knew he was the shooter. They couldn't deny that any longer.

But RM was still trying desperately to cling to the story as told, that there were driving lessons followed by a road rage incident. He still very much wanted to convince everyone that the driving lessons and road rage incident happened, so of course he framed it as "mommy didn't want it to come back here."

You can't take RM's entire statement as 100% true. For example, he also said, "There was opportunity chance for things to be vigilante. My son never took it to that." Well, as we know, when BM set out with his gun that night, that's exactly what he did -- took it to vigilante. So we know that RM wasn't being completely truthful.

Yes, that means a certain amount of "picking and choosing" which parts to believe and which parts not to believe. We have to rely on our own best judgment and common sense and knowledge of human nature in deciding which parts we believe and which parts we don't.

We can genuinely and sincerely disagree about which parts are true and which parts aren't. But I think that we can probably agree that he was not being 100% truthful in that press conference.

 

[BellaVita]

I do think there was some incident on Cimarron. From the same mommy speech is this: "She just didn't want it to come back here. She tried to get him to go somewhere else." With either one-trip or two-trips there has to have been some preceding incident for this to make sense for them to either go back and get their gun or to pull out their gun in the car.

Yes. I've said before that whatever road rage type events took place, it wasn't because the Buick was driving too slowly. It was because of something else. Something personal or something related to "business". IMO.

 

[BellaVita]

sbm bbm

re bbm Source, link, pls?
Who? Same two friends that he talked w & visited in person the next morning, arriving 3:00 -3:30am?
i.e., friends quoted in warrant?
Or other friends?

When?
When did EN tell them --- next morning, or days, weeks, months before then?
When did friends make stmt to LE (that EN told them) --- date of friends-LE convo in warrant ?

Trying to figure out if EN told friends about threat to his Mother & baby - only after the shooting,
or before then. After shooting & before date of friends-LE convo in warrant, did EN have opp to tell friends
for the first time about the threat to mom & baby?

IOW, did EN make up/could he have made up threat after the shooting? Anyone?

ETA: Was threat to kill made specifically in retaliation for something EN had done?
If so, what - a specific drug deal gone bad? Gang gripe about turf/territory? Simply dealing drugs in neighborhood?
Or just a 'threat'? Anyone?

Wish I could find a link. I know links are important and better than a WS'er just recalling something. What I do recall hearing over and over again is that in the one or two weeks before the shooting, EN had told people that someone threatened the mom and baby. Maybe that will ring a bell for someone who has the link.

 

[sonjay]

sbm bbm

re bbm Source, link, pls?
Who? Same two friends that he talked w & visited in person the next morning, arriving 3:00 -3:30am?
i.e., friends quoted in warrant?
Or other friends?

When?
When did EN tell them --- next morning, or days, weeks, months before then?
When did friends make stmt to LE (that EN told them) --- date of friends-LE convo in warrant ?

Trying to figure out if EN told friends about threat to his Mother & baby - only after the shooting,
or before then. After shooting & before date of friends-LE convo in warrant, did EN have opp to tell friends
for the first time about the threat to mom & baby?

IOW, did EN make up/could he have made up threat after the shooting? Anyone?

I don't have a link handy, but I'm pretty sure that the "threats to his mom and her baby" were reported to media by neighbors. The threats were referred to as something that had happened in the past. How far in the past? No idea. I think the baby is very young, so it couldn't be too far in the past if the threats actually included threats to the baby.

So no, I don't think those threats were something EN dreamed up after the fact as justification for the shooting. I don't think anyone has any idea who might have made the threats (if in fact threats were made). The Meyerses? Maybe. Someone else? Maybe.

We've discussed that EN had a touch of paranoia. The threats might have been a figment of his imagination, but if so, I think they were a figment that existed in his imagination prior to the night of the shooting.

 

[BellaVita]

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/0...5F02612X-declaration-&-complaint_Redacted.pdf

On page 6 of the warrant:KK says EN has been telling her and her boyfriend that people are after him and have been threatening his mom and the baby. Read that sentence and one or two after that. It is very evident, IMO, that KK means this is something that was told to her before the night of the shooting. IMO. I believe it was also reported by neighbors but do not have a link.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

sbm bbm

re bbm Source, link, pls?
Who? Same two friends that he talked w & visited in person the next morning, arriving 3:00 -3:30am?
i.e., friends quoted in warrant?
Or other friends?

When?
When did EN tell them --- next morning, or days, weeks, months before then?
When did friends make stmt to LE (that EN told them) --- date of friends-LE convo in warrant ?

Trying to figure out if EN told friends about threat to his Mother & baby - only after the shooting,
or before then. After shooting & before date of friends-LE convo in warrant, did EN have opp to tell friends
for the first time about the threat to mom & baby?

IOW, did EN make up/could he have made up threat after the shooting? Anyone?

ETA: Was threat to kill made specifically in retaliation for something EN had done?
If so, what - a specific drug deal gone bad? Gang gripe about turf/territory? Simply dealing drugs in neighborhood?
Or just a 'threat'? Anyone?

It is in the complaint itself right where the Krisztian section begins where she says she and her boyfriend were told this, which it sounds like his saying this was right after the shooting. With this being second-hand hearsay, it's not clear in what detail EN told them. I don't think EN made it up as lie - a paranoid hallucination possible, a deliberate lie no - as he was voluntarily telling them what happened, which he didn't have to tell them anything about the shooting in the first place. After the police interview Krisztian has spoken out in defense on EN:
http://www.mynews3.com/mostpopular/...ferent-details-in/1aMLFn-2qkiNA_vQXZmdoA.cspx

 

[sonjay]

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/0...5F02612X-declaration-&-complaint_Redacted.pdf

On page 6 of the warrant:KK says EN has been telling her and her boyfriend that people are after him and have been threatening his mom and the baby. Read that sentence and one or two after that. It is very evident, IMO, that KK means this is something that was told to her before the night of the shooting. IMO. I believe it was also reported by neighbors but do not have a link.

Well, that shows you what happens when I answer a question without double-checking things first! I could have sworn I've read that it was neighbors saying he had complained about threats to his mom and the baby.

 

[BellaVita]

Also want to add-KK says also that EN was excited and happy over "getting those kids". "They were after me and I got them." If, as I believe, 100% that the M's knew EN was in the Audi, then I also believe 100% that EN knew the Buick belonged to the M's. Adding 2 and 2 together, according to EN, he did feel the M's were after him. IMO.

 

[BellaVita]

It is in the complaint itself right where the Krisztian section begins where she says she and her boyfriend were told this, which it sounds like his saying this was right after the shooting. With this being second-hand hearsay, it's not clear in what detail EN told them. I don't think EN made it up as lie - a paranoid hallucination possible, a deliberate lie no - as he was voluntarily telling them what happened, which he didn't have to tell them anything about the shooting in the first place. After the police interview Krisztian has spoken out in defense on EN:
http://www.mynews3.com/mostpopular/...ferent-details-in/1aMLFn-2qkiNA_vQXZmdoA.cspx

Read carefully the warrant. KK, IMO, is stating the story about people out to get EN has been an ongoing issue. Not something she was hearing for the first time on the night of the shooting. My apologies if I misunderstood what you are saying.

 

[sonjay]

Nowsch has been indicted

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/28283079/nowsch-indicted-in-shooting-death-of-tammy-meyers

No good details about anything.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I agree there was some preceding incident. BM had his gun and set out to hunt down EN that night. You don't do that without some preceding incident.
But that preceding incident didn't necessarily happen that very night, immediately prior to the car chase and shooting.

That is true, though I personally learn towards something happening that day. One reason that it was something that happened that day was that RM way away. I can't imagine you'd escalate in such a major way without the family patriarch there...actually I'd expect that if this was pre-planned longer than that day that it would have been RM leading and with the gun.

Once EN was arrested, RM had to admit that the Meyerses knew EN and knew he was the shooter. They couldn't deny that any longer.
But RM was still trying desperately to cling to the story as told, that there were driving lessons followed by a road rage incident. He still very much wanted to convince everyone that the driving lessons and road rage incident happened, so of course he framed it as "mommy didn't want it to come back here."
You can't take RM's entire statement as 100% true. For example, he also said, "There was opportunity chance for things to be vigilante. My son never took it to that." Well, as we know, when BM set out with his gun that night, that's exactly what he did -- took it to vigilante. So we know that RM wasn't being completely truthful.

It has been consistent from the very beginning that they went out after the Audi because the occupants of that car knew where they lived. RM's statement of holding off on doing vigilantism before actual rings 100% true to me as this is saying there was an escalation in an ongoing feud where that day it now reached a point in the feud the Meyers thought getting their guns and chasing them down was appropriate. RM's statement is not really a defense but a confession of a premeditated criminal conspiracy where the end result was one of the Meyers got killed. If LE has any proof that RM was talking to the other Meyers around the time these events occurred, they could go after him for Felony Murder and use those quotes from the press conference as proof to get a conviction. Legally speaking what RM did was a Statement Against Penal Interest (against BM and possibly himself), though I think RM is either not smart enough or too cocky for him to realize it.

We can genuinely and sincerely disagree about which parts are true and which parts aren't. But I think that we can probably agree that he was not being 100% truthful in that press conference.

Yup