GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #4

[sonjay]

I've been saying all along that I believed the buick was the car for the children to drive and that's why the story includes driving lessons in the car.

Since the first shooting scene can't be a coincidence of where they said TM and MM changed seats in the car at the end of the "driving lessons," I don't believe there were ever driving lessons. Why lie about that? Why put the sister in the car to begin with? Was she in the car the entire time? Why would they create a lie to say the daughter wasn't in the car? It seems the lie protects the sister from being present as a witness at the time of the shootings.

When you look at the description MM gave of the route she and TM drove after they finished driving lessons, it's not much different from the crazy routes they took when TM and BM were supposedly in the car. I'll bet the first route with TM and MM in the car was a car chase too. The question is who was really in the car then? It was likely one continuous car chase instead of two separate incidents with two different people in the car each time.

I continue to think that there was no trip home to drop off daughter and pick up son. There was one car chase, ending at the Meyers home, IMO. That's why the two driving trips are so similar. JMO.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I continue to think that there was no trip home to drop off daughter and pick up son. There was one car chase, ending at the Meyers home, IMO. That's why the two driving trips are so similar. JMO.

Okay. I agree it makes the most sense.

But what is the motive to say MM was dropped off and BM was picked up?

And who was in the car for this one extended trip?

 

[sonjay]

EN chased them to their house then murdered Tammy and attempted to murder Brandon. He unloaded 22 rounds and he is a cold blooded killer.

It is not at all clear that's what happened.

For one thing, in the police affidavit, Brandon described he and his mother chasing the Audi. EN didn't chase the Meyerses; the Meyerses chased EN.

Was there really a driving lesson? If not, why did the Meyerses claim there was?

Who started the altercation?

Who fired first?

Why did the Meyerses pretend for a solid week that they didn't know who the shooter was?

Did TM and KM go home, drop off KM, pick up BM and his gun, and go back out to hunt for EN? If so, why?

Or was there only one single extended incident, as described by EN's friends in the police affidavit?

If there was one single extended incident, why are the Meyerses claiming there was an intermission and a trip home to switch out passengers?

If there were two incidents, with an intermission, why did EN's friends report him describing one single incident?

Why did EN think "those kids" were after him?

Why would TM tell her son to arm up and go out with her to hunt down EN? What was she planning to do when she found him? What would she have done when she caught him if EN hadn't had his own gun? For that matter why would TM even think she could find a nondescript silver or grey sedan that was supposedly some random stranger?

What exactly was the relationship between TM and EN? Between the Meyers family generally and EN?

When you can answer all of those questions, with links to sources verifying each answer, then you can say it's clear what happened. Until then, it's not at all clear.

Edited to add: No, wait, there's more.

Why did RM offer TM's cherished restored El Camino as a reward when he knew all along who the shooter was?

Why did RM go to EN's house wanting to talk to him?

What's the deal with the police sketch? Was that sketch supposed to be of EN? If it was the driver of the silver car, why did the police say there's no need to be on the lookout for the person in the sketch? Is it a sketch of an actual, real person? If not, why not?

Why have the Meyerses changed their story so many times?

 

[katydid23]

I wish we knew more about the other sons Bday party earlier that night. He is the same age as EN and they probably knew a lot of the same people. It makes me wonder if something happened at the party that set up the later beef between them all. BM is a hot head so it might not take much. Maybe something that he heard from friends or ?

It seems possible/plausible that 2 members of the M family left the party and went to the park in search of EN. Which would make sense with the way EN called for 'backup' when he saw the Meyers green Buick. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Okay. I agree it makes the most sense.

But what is the motive to say MM was dropped off and BM was picked up?

And who was in the car for this one extended trip?

BBM

They wanted to make it an innocent road rage incident. So putting Mom in the car teaching a driving lesson was perfect scenario. JMO

 

[sonjay]

Okay. I agree it makes the most sense.

But what is the motive to say MM was dropped off and BM was picked up?

And who was in the car for this one extended trip?

The motive to claim -- MM? The daughter is KM -- The motive to claim KM was dropped off and BM picked up is unknown at this point, if in fact it's a made up story. My theory, which I described upthread somewhere, is that they had told the driving lesson story initially, with the silver car following TM and KM home and shooting TM. But then they realized that it was probably going to come out that BM was in the car, so they had to modify their story to put BM in the car.

Who was in the car? I'm still undecided. I lean toward BM and KM. EN's comment about "those kids" suggests to me that it was two of the Meyers kids, not TM herself. But it could have been TM and BM. Or possibly all 3 of them.

If anyone has ideas to firm up our thoughts on who was in the car, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I wish we knew more about the other sons Bday party earlier that night. He is the same age as EN and they probably knew a lot of the same people. It makes me wonder if something happened at the party that set up the later beef between them all. BM is a hot head so it might not take much. Maybe something that he heard from friends or ?

It was Matthew's birthday. Is he near EN's age? I thought he was the 2nd oldest and the 3rd son was near EN's age.

It seems possible/plausible that 2 members of the M family left the party and went to the park in search of EN. Which would make sense with the way EN called for 'backup' when he saw the Meyers green Buick. JMO

What do you think their intent was when they left the house in search of EN at the park?

Do you think they planned to chase him while brandishing a gun? If so, why?

Or do you think they were going to buy drugs since it was rumored that TM and EN had a relationship that involved illegal drugs?

 

[al66pine]

Posted by katydid23 ".... the classic green Buick.... I wonder who usually drove that car?...."
.
jennapuppy posted: "That's a very good point. Wasn't the El Camino Tammy's car? ...." bbm sbm

bbm1
Is it poss green Buick was not driven much, maybe not at all, maybe just sat in driveway?
Maybe belongs to grandmother, which could explain not used much (if that's true).
Maybe a "car in waiting" for 14 y/o dau to use to learn to drive in?
Maybe MrM or MrsM drove occasionally (just to keep it from locking up). But EN washed M's cars?
.
Are NV vehicle registration or personal prop tax records avail, searchable by owner name?
Not sure what that would add to our equation. (Guess if G'ma lives there she may drive. Or not)
What vehicle, if any is reg'ed in BM's name? Other vehicles in MrM's., MrsM's name?
What vehicle would EN expect to see Mrs M driving? TM?

bbm2
If El Camino was restored & a $60,000 vehicle (as MrM said ~), was it a daily driver for TM? Doubtful.
Even if not approaching that kind of value, still might not have be a daily driver for anyone.
As some car collectors would say -- Garage Queen, rarely driven, except to car shows, parades, etc.

JM2cts & I could be wrong.

 

[Snoods]

When you take a gun and go looking for someone that you just had a confrontation with, you are instigating the second confrontation. If the Meyers' story is true, then TM & BM did instigate the second confrontation. Whether or not either of them shot at EN is immaterial to that fact. They did instigate the second confrontation.

That is, if you believe there was a second confrontation. I do not. I think that whoever was in the Meyers car for the initial encounter near the school was in the car for the entire thing. I don't think the Meyers car ever went home to drop off one person and pick up another.

According to BM and his sister's version of events, they absolutely instigated both confrontations. Their own words have them hounding the silver car and tracking them down, even after the silver car attempted to retreat several times. And Tammy's children name their mother as the main instigator.

However I don't believe their version. I agree with Sonjay that it was one long game of cat and mouse between BM/Sis and silver car. I believe RM and TM only became pawns in their children's version of events.

I could be way off base and if so I will humbly apologize, but this is the only scenario that makes sense to me right now.

Question: Does anyone think TM's passing had anything to do with the story changing to make BM out to be the hero whose only intent was to protect his mom, who was insisting they stalk down this violent road rager? Therein placing her own child in danger? TM wouldn't be able to refute anything any longer. Ugh. My mind is mush right now, I'm probably not making any sense...

 

[sonjay]

I wish we knew more about the other sons Bday party earlier that night. He is the same age as EN and they probably knew a lot of the same people. It makes me wonder if something happened at the party that set up the later beef between them all. BM is a hot head so it might not take much. Maybe something that he heard from friends or ?

It seems possible/plausible that 2 members of the M family left the party and went to the park in search of EN. Which would make sense with the way EN called for 'backup' when he saw the Meyers green Buick. JMO

You could very well be right that the birthday party is relevant. That's one more of what are already way too many coincidences in this story.

BBM

They wanted to make it an innocent road rage incident. So putting Mom in the car teaching a driving lesson was perfect scenario. JMO

I agree on that as the motive. They needed some innocent-sounding explanation for why their green car was at the school at that time of night, where the drug dealers are known to hang out. Since the daughter is the age get her learner's permit, she probably has been been getting driving lessons from mom recently, so that would be something that she might think of on the spur of the moment.

They got in a shootout with EN. Mom's dead. Cops are on the way. Quick, how do we explain this? Somebody probably saw our car at the school -- What do we tell the cops about why it was there?

JMO, MOO, IMO, and all that jazz.

 

[Miss Muffet]

If El Camino was restored & a $60,000 vehicle (as MrM said ~), was it a daily driver for TM? Doubtful.
Even if not approaching that kind of value, still might not have be a daily driver for anyone.
As some car collectors would say -- Garage Queen, rarely driven, except to car shows, parades, etc.

I agree it's doubtful the El Camino was driving regularly by TM. That doesn't mean the Buick was the car she drove regularly. There are pictures and google map images of many cars in that driveway and in front of it. Any of them could have been her daily driver.

 

[sonjay]

According to BM and his sister's version of events, they absolutely instigated both confrontations. Their own words have them hounding the silver car and tracking them down, even after the silver car attempted to retreat several times. And Tammy's children name their mother as the main instigator.

However I don't believe their version. I agree with Sonjay that it was one long game of cat and mouse between BM/Sis and silver car. I believe RM and TM only became pawns in their children's version of events.

I could be way off base and if so I will humbly apologize, but this is the only scenario that makes sense to me right now.

Question: Does anyone think TM's passing had anything to do with the story changing to make BM out to be the hero whose only intent was to protect his mom, who was insisting they stalk down this violent road rager? Since TM wouldn't be able to refute anything? Ugh. My mind is mush right now, I'm probably not making any sense...

Oh yeah, that has most definitely occurred to me. Since her death, TM has been increasingly thrown under the bus. Initially, the whole thing was sparked by some anonymous stranger getting annoyed while TM was innocently giving her daughter driving lessons.

But ever since TM died, she's been blamed for more and more of what happened. First we have the huge revelation that TM took KM home and picked up Brandon to go back out looking for EN. Then we have TM involved with EN -- consoling him, giving him money, even feeding him -- essentially, bringing evil right into the bosom of the Meyers family. Then we learn that Brandon wanted her to stay home and call 911, but she she refused and said she would go alone if he didn't go with her. Then we have TM specifically asking Brandon to bring his gun. It sounds to me like the Meyerses have figured out they can say anything they want about TM's actions and statements that night, and there's no one alive to dispute it.

 

[Snoods]

Okay. I agree it makes the most sense.

But what is the motive to say MM was dropped off and BM was picked up?

And who was in the car for this one extended trip?

Here's one thing that bugs me. When TM went into the hospital, her family didn't know she was going to die, correct? (Or did they?) So why would BM/sis lie about who was in the car if they thought TM could wake up and spill the beans? Unless they thought she would lie for them...

 

[Miss Muffet]

That's interesting about the family's stories starting to change after TM's death. But doesn't that indicate that TM would have been in the car since they placed her in the car the first time they talked to the police?

 

[Snoods]

That's interesting about the family's stories starting to change after TM's death. But doesn't that indicate that TM would have been in the car since they placed her in the car the first time they talked to the police?

LOL jinx Miss Muffet. That's been my one niggling doubt about TM.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Here's one thing that bugs me. When TM went into the hospital, her family didn't know she was going to die, correct? (Or did they?) So why would BM/sis lie about who was in the car if they thought TM could wake up and spill the beans? Unless they thought she would lie for them...

That means TM and BM were definitely in the car. The biggest question is if TM and MM were in the car earlier.

I'm not sure they really thought through if she'd spill the beans or if they even realized it was unlikely she'd make coherent sense if she didn't die. But RM's continual stories indicate he doesn't seem to have a problem with being caught lying. Even removing all of these qualifiers, I'll bet the family was confident TM is capable of navigating police questions. I'm not up to no good and my family knows I'm capable in that regard.

 

[Snoods]

You could very well be right that the birthday party is relevant. That's one more of what are already way too many coincidences in this story.

RSBM Also relevant because there was most likely alcohol and party favors, or the wish for more party favors when the supply ran low...

 

[Miss Muffet]

LOL jinx Miss Muffet. That's been my one niggling doubt about TM.

The more we talk about it tonight, the more I believe TM was in the car.

I'm more perplexed trying to figure out how MM fits into it.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

EN chased them to their house then murdered Tammy and attempted to murder Brandon.

That is expressly denied in the Criminal Complaint. EN is not alleged to have been the driver by any of the accounts. Also per Stand Your Ground (which I'm no fan of), by the Complaint's own account EN was driven to a location he had a legal right to be in and by the Meyers own account KM was standing outside with a pistol in hand when the Audi arrived. In Nevada Stand Your Ground there is no duty to retreat. I think Stand Your Ground laws are very bad laws as it could potentially really get entangled here as both the Meyers and the occupants of the Audi could make claims to Stand Your Ground and both could conceivably be right.

Nevada's Stand Your Ground law has three requirements:
"That you have a right to be there.
That you're not doing anything illegal yourself.
And that you're not the original aggressor."
http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/Nevadas-Stand-Your-Ground-Law-What-Are-The-Rules-261183861.html
All parties involved qualify under #1 as no trespassing was accused of anyone in the Complaint and both parties could potentially claim #2 and #3.

Meyers party legal defense for all actions based purely on what is in the Complaint would be that they were verbally threatened (which it looks like it was the Audi driver not the EN that made the verbal threat and EN might not have even been in the car at the time the Audi driver made the threat and may never have known about it) and had a legal right to arm themselves and to then arm themselves and drive on the streets where they have a legal right to be and all subsequent actions of theirs are covered including the Meyers admission that they chased the Audi while armed. Conversely EN/Audi party can say they have Stand Your Ground protection because they saw the armed Meyers car chasing after them, which EN in particular could have the strongest defense here by saying he knew nothing about the verbal threat that happened before he got in the car where he only knew he called the Audi driver because he was frightened by the Meyers party in the parking lot and he only got out his gun and armed it upon seeing the Meyers armed and chasing him and he did not chase the Meyers to their house, but he had a legal right to be on Mt Shasta and defend himself either from his pre-existing SYG rights or by new SYG rights upon arriving with BM standing outside armed.

Now that I've detailed the importance of not engaging in illegality when claiming self defense, I think this rumor is highly relevant and it comes from a local source in a published article, which sounds like it meets the TOS:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nned-19-year-old-said-buying-Xanax-years.html
If that is true, it has a great deal of bearing on EN's legal defense because if EN was engaged in a felony where a prescription drug deal went bust, EN would have a much harder time using self-defense as SYG could no longer protect subsequent actions by EN. It is actually easier for EN to be found guilty of murder/manslaughter if any of the Meyers were engaged in a drug deal that went bust. Any Meyers involved in illegal drug deals with EN around this event is not a defense of EN, but actually the contrary. Even though prescription drug dealing/possession is a felony in Nevada, it doesn't make it a Felony Murder case as only certain felonies count, so the Meyers couldn't be charged nor could any other Audi passengers with Felony Murder.

In short non-drugs EN has a potentially unique SYG defense compared to all other participants in the events if he wasn't there for the verbal threat but with drugs EN is in a particularly indefensible position in not being able to use SYG in defense against any criminal charges.

 

[Snoods]

Well, the defense attorneys appear to be covering all their bases.

IMO, with respect to childhood head injuries, growth hormone deficiency, or whatever else the defense comes up with, if he knew right from wrong at the moment he shot TM, he's guilty.

Assuming this goes to trial, I imagine we'll learn quite a bit about EN.

I hope we also learn more about TM. I still can't get my head around the idea that this loving, motherly 44-year-old woman would leave her daughter at home alone and take her armed son to go hunt down a road rager that she had safely escaped from. Did she have any history of that sort of thing? Was she the neighborhood traffic vigilante, regularly chasing down bad drivers? Why would she have made that choice that night? If her intentions were innocent -- oh, say, she knew it was EN and she just wanted to talk to him -- why would she have had Brandon get his gun and go with her? And if she didn't know it was EN, then how on earth did she expect to find the other car, and what were her intentions in having Brandon bring his gun?

This is primarily why I keep going back to the theory that TM wasn't even in the car that night. I don't think she was that kind of person. I don't think she would have done that. I just can't go along with the crowd that throws TM under the bus after she's no longer here to defend herself.

It's bizarre that not a single solitary person has come forward to talk about Tammy. Not anyone she went to school with, practiced nursing with (if indeed she was a nurse). What about other moms she met while her kids were growing up? Who here with kids hasn't made friends with the parents of your children's friends; during baseball season, cheerleading, soccer, football, birthday parties, volunteering at their school. Why the radio silence? It's deafening.

I will say this, without a doubt whoever was in the green Buick knew exactly where the silver car was going to be and vice versa. In the maps I did based on the warrants, there is no possible way either of those vehicles would have been able to find each other so quickly and directly over that distance. And based on that, I believe they knew who was in each respective vehicle.