GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #8

[SpanishInquisition]

Trial is postponed
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/judge-postpones-trial-two-charged-slaying-tammy-meyers

I can't say this is a surprise.

This is about the only way I see Nowsch getting off in saying his right to a speedy trial was violated, if Claus was to make such a motion, which I would see such a motion having a high probability of success, but I wouldn't see it as impossible either. Claus has never made motions for continuances and has complained about the speed of discovery, so I don't see it out of the realm of possibility that Nowsch could get off on a technicality as other than his right to a speedy trial being violated, I think his goose is cooked by one or more of his confessions getting in.

This show a Nevada case that was denied on Speedy Trial grounds, but it is illustrative of analysis used:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nv-supreme-court/1409496.html
It was denied because the defense multiple times postponed the trial but Claus hasn't done that.

 

[OtterPops]

This is about the only way I see Nowsch getting off in saying his right to a speedy trial was violated, if Claus was to make such a motion, which I would see such a motion having a high probability of success, but I wouldn't see it as impossible either.

I really don't see him getting off at ALL IMO. I hope there is no technicality in this case because I do feel safer with him off my streets! I still feel like he was sort of shooting at fish in a barrel, so to speak. I don't understand why some sleuths are worried about the confession being thrown out, the dude was getting high while police surrounded his house and they KNEW it, there is no way they should have questioned him immediately after. I think it SHOULD be thrown out as they KNEW he was using beforehand. No matter, IMO, the evidence will convict him. I have very little doubt.

The most frustrating part if this case for me is that I want to know the details surrounding the M family and the odd behaviour but none of it really matters, what will matter is those few minutes when EN and TM were driving to her house on separate routes, she pulled up at home and he pulled in behind her, shot at her, was apparently happy he "gottem" and drove away. I don't think ANYTHING else will matter to the jury in the end. At. All.

ETA: I was just reading he fired 24 shots. I had NO IDEA it was so many. :/ Wow.

 

[jayme1133]

WOW~Spanish you have switched gears, M1? What made you change your mind?
Curious was it the confessions, what about all the doubt from Meyers...can you catch me up?

 

[sonjay]

I really don't see him getting off at ALL IMO. I still feel like he was sort of shooting at fish in a barrel, so to speak. I don't understand why some sleuths are worried about the confession being thrown out, the dude was getting high while police surrounded his house and they KNEW it, there is no way they should have questioned him immediately after. I think it SHOULD be thrown out as they KNEW he was using beforehand. No matter, IMO, the evidence will convict him. I have very little doubt.

The most frustrating part if this case for me is that I want to know the details surrounding the M family and the odd behaviour but none of it really matters, what will matter is those few minutes when EN and TM were driving to her house on separate routes, she pulled up at home and he pulled in behind her, shot at her, was apparently happy he "gottem" and drove away. I don't think ANYTHING else will matter to the jury in the end. At. All.

ETA: I was just reading he fired 24 shots. I had NO IDEA it was so many. :/ Wow.

BBM. Based on what little we know about what evidence police have, there may not be any evidence against EN other than his confessions.

He was arrested days later. So no gunshot residue test.

No eyewitnesses (that we're aware of) other than the Meyerses, who have zero credibility.

I think I read somewhere that they never recovered the .45 that EN allegedly used. So that's not helpful.

If the confessions aren't admitted, what evidence is there that EN did it?

None, really, as far as I can tell.

Either the prosecution has a lot more evidence than they've made public, or their entire case hinges on getting EN's confessions into evidence.

And even beyond that, I think the lies and deceptions by the Meyerses allow room for lots of reasonable doubt about what they were doing that night and why they were chasing EN with a gun.

Allegedly, TM went out that night with her armed son because she was afraid her alleged road rager was going to come after her, and she wanted to keep it away from the house.

If that's a good excuse for TM, it seems to me that it's just as good of an excuse for EN — he tried to flee, and his pursuers wouldn't break off the chase until until he shot at them. Then, he thought they were driving past his house, so he went after them to keep them away from his house — away from his mother and baby sister.

I can see a conviction on something, but I can't see M1. I just can't.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I really don't see him getting off at ALL IMO.

I rate it as low but not impossible. My WAG is that EN gets convicted of a serious felony short of M1 - most likely M2 as shooting from a car may legally make it impossible for a jury to find Manslaughter as I think legally shooting from a car is consider inherently reckless hence M2 even if the jury otherwise would have gone with Manslaughter if this had happened on foot.

The most frustrating part if this case for me is that I want to know the details surrounding the M family and the odd behaviour but none of it really matters, what will matter is those few minutes when EN and TM were driving to her house on separate routes, she pulled up at home and he pulled in behind her, shot at her, was apparently happy he "gottem" and drove away. I don't think ANYTHING else will matter to the jury in the end. At. All.

It will matter as to what degree EN is convicted. If the DA has a scenario that is easy to poke holes in and prosecution witnesses have their credibility undermined, it's unlikely you'll get M1, but I don't rule it out...just I don't see it as the most likely result. This isn't a black and white guilty or not, but instead it is what shade of gray on the criminal spectrum a jury of 12 will support.

 

[sonjay]

And on the subject of M1 — the "reflection" and "deliberation" that are required elements for M1, we have this from PaperDoll — BBM:

I've always believed after the 1st shooting that BM/TM went straight home and EN saw them take a turn off Cherry River onto Carmel Peak then Mt. Shasta. I believe that EN made that U-turn on Alta then went on Carmel Peak and turned on Mt. Shasta. I do not believe for one minute that the Meyers had a chance to make it to their door. If you drive the route you will understand how fast this all happened and that there was no time for the Meyers to get inside their house. I believe after being shot at that there would be no way they would linger getting inside the house. JMO!

Yeah, it happened fast. Real fast. I understand that the NV laws on M1 don't specify a minimum amount of time for reflection and deliberation for M1, but jurors do apply common sense. It happened very fast, and there simply was almost zero time for any reflection or deliberation. EN had been fleeing. He had to shoot his gun at his pursuers to get them to break off the chase. Then, when he thought the chase was over, he looked up the street and saw what he thought was the green car driving past his house. And his mom and baby sister were asleep in that house!

I don't see how that can possibly result in a conviction on M1.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

WOW~Spanish you have switched gears, M1? What made you change your mind?
Curious was it the confessions, what about all the doubt from Meyers...can you catch me up?

Actually I haven't switched as my position has been consist ever since the confessions came out. Ever since the confessions came out I considered a conviction less than M1 as the most likely result with either M1 or not guilty unlikely but not impossible for EN. I do for instance think it's possible a jury could convict EN of M1 for confessing to shooting dozens of shots as a jury could think that act itself meets the burden to prove M1, however, I think a jury will most likely look at everything leading up to this and how the prosecution themselves paints EN as an innocent bystander, so the jury will find he acted rashly/recklessly and give him M2 or Manslaughter while alternatively it's not outside the realm of possibility that EN gets off entirely due to a legal technicality like his Constitutional right to a Fair Trial was denied. That I discuss M1 or getting off doesn't mean I consider either of those the most likely to happen.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

If that's a good excuse for TM, it seems to me that it's just as good of an excuse for EN — he tried to flee, and his pursuers wouldn't break off the chase until until he shot at them. Then, he thought they were driving past his house, so he went after them to keep them away from his house — away from his mother and baby sister.

I can see a conviction on something, but I can't see M1. I just can't.

Yes, that's about how I see it. The prosecution's own case against EN also supports a conviction of something less than M1 as the prosecution so far has gone out of their way to paint EN as completely innocent of having anything to do with any road rage and being wrongly targeted by the Meyers, so anything he did in the seconds afterward was in reaction to something happening to him completely out of the blue (and the shorter the timeframe between events, the more it goes to EN's advantage). I don't think EN was a completely innocent bystander who was targeted out of the blue, but if the DA pursues that line I just don't think a jury will find M1.

 

[sonjay]

Yes, that's about how I see it. The prosecution's own case against EN also supports a conviction of something less than M1 as the prosecution so far has gone out of their way to paint EN as completely innocent of having anything to do with any road rage and being wrongly targeted by the Meyers, so anything he did in the seconds afterward was in reaction to something happening to him completely out of the blue (and the shorter the timeframe between events, the more it goes to EN's advantage). I don't think EN was a completely innocent bystander who was targeted out of the blue, but if the DA pursues that line I just don't think a jury will find M1.

Based on both EN's statements to Mogg and to his friends, as well BM's GJ testimony, I think that on that particular night, EN was innocent with respect to the Meyerses until after they had started chasing him. He did not start anything that night with the Meyerses. The Meyerses started something with him. They acted, he reacted.

With that said, I think there's a lot of backstory between EN and the Meyerses, and I don't think EN is completely innocent in that backstory.

Also, I believe there's truth to the neighborhood rumors about his drug dealing. Also probably gang involvement and probably violent behavior.

So..... I don't believe EN is an innocent little boy, but I also believe that on the night of Feb. 12, EN was hanging out in the park not doing anything to the Meyerses, until they came up and started chasing and threatening him.

How things will play out in court remains to be seen, but that's what I think.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Based on both EN's statements to Mogg and to his friends, as well BM's GJ testimony, I think that on that particular night, EN was innocent with respect to the Meyerses until after they had started chasing him. He did not start anything that night with the Meyerses. The Meyerses started something with him. They acted, he reacted.

With that said, I think there's a lot of backstory between EN and the Meyerses, and I don't think EN is completely innocent in that backstory.

Also, I believe there's truth to the neighborhood rumors about his drug dealing. Also probably gang involvement and probably violent behavior.

So..... I don't believe EN is an innocent little boy, but I also believe that on the night of Feb. 12, EN was hanging out in the park not doing anything to the Meyerses, until they came up and started chasing and threatening him.

How things will play out in court remains to be seen, but that's what I think.

That's about how I see it. A drug dealer fight story I see as more likely to get an M1 where I could see a dispute spanning days being more helpful in getting an M1 compared to the Meyers having absolutely no illicit business with EN and then finding him totally by mistake, not that either would necessarily result in M1 just the more innocent the prosecution paints EN, the less likely he'll get M1. If for instance the DA painted him as a drug dealer in an ongoing dispute with a client, I could see the jury able to find multiple reasons for M1 (that it wasn't something completely out of the blue, using the shots EN said he fired, etc) but if he's painted as some random bystander than I think the jury will lean towards how short a time there was between the Meyers going after him and the final shooting where the quicker the DA says it took that again will benefit EN.

 

[sonjay]

That's about how I see it. A drug dealer fight story I see as more likely to get an M1 where I could see a dispute spanning days being more helpful in getting an M1 compared to the Meyers having absolutely no illicit business with EN and then finding him totally by mistake, not that either would necessarily result in M1 just the more innocent the prosecution paints EN, the less likely he'll get M1. If for instance the DA painted him as a drug dealer in an ongoing dispute with a client, I could see the jury able to find multiple reasons for M1 (that it wasn't something completely out of the blue, using the shots EN said he fired, etc) but if he's painted as some random bystander than I think the jury will lean towards how short a time there was between the Meyers going after him and the final shooting where the quicker the DA says it took that again will benefit EN.

And that's the key. From all appearances, it sounds as if the prosecution is sticking to their story about the road rage and the Meyerses chasing the wrong car. In the show last night, Stanton was shown saying that he believes there was road rage, and that the road rage is why TM went back out that night.

I don't see any sign that the prosecution is backpedaling from the road rage story/mistaken car theory. And the longer they stick to that narrative, the harder it's going to be to change their story later.

If they stick to that story, I think that EN might just walk. You got a skinny kid sitting in a park minding his own business when he's suddenly threatened and chased by another car without any provocation whatsoever. He flees, but the other car won't stop chasing him until he shoots at them! And then when he finally thinks it's over with, he thinks he sees that they're about to drive right past his house, with his mother and baby sister sleeping inside. With that scenario, that's a pretty sympathetic picture for a jury. I can easily see at least one holdout juror who refuses to convict on anything. And if there's a hung jury and a mistrial, they're really going to face an uphill task to try him again using a different theory.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

If they stick to that story, I think that EN might just walk. You got a skinny kid sitting in a park minding his own business when he's suddenly threatened and chased by another car without any provocation whatsoever. He flees, but the other car won't stop chasing him until he shoots at them! And then when he finally thinks it's over with, he thinks he sees that they're about to drive right past his house, with his mother and baby sister sleeping inside. With that scenario, that's a pretty sympathetic picture for a jury. I can easily see at least one holdout juror who refuses to convict on anything. And if there's a hung jury and a mistrial, they're really going to face an uphill task to try him again using a different theory.

I agree in that is a possible outcome. I could see how whatever the DA says about the Meyers in going out to defend their family as a good thing that EN's defense will say the same applies to EN. I don't think it's likely to get him off entirely, but it's not impossible either. I think the odds of acquittal improved with the toxicology results showing TM had used Vicodin with there so far being no records from the hospital or any other source that she was prescribed that...EN probably sold her the Vicodin, but if the DA insists that didn't happen, it's only going to make TM look more crazed in going after the wrong person. By denying EN sold it to TM (or that it was even illicit Vicodin at all as the DA says he thinks it came from the hospital just doesn't have the records to prove it), the EN defense get the benefit of being able to paint TM in a drug-induced state without getting the downside of this being fight over EN as the drug dealer with this fight part of his illicit business.

 

[PaperDoll]

After the 1st shooting the Meyers did not pass EN's house they went straight home per testimony, they would have had to pass their street in order to pass EN's house. EN went into the cul-de-sac and fired away. The Meyers were not at EN's house when TM was shot and killed, they were in front of their own house. The Jury will want to know why EN was on that cul-de-sac shooting at a fleeing man and people in the car. EN in his own words told 2 or 3 people that no one shot at him. The Meyers fled the 1st shootout, they retreated, EN however didn't. In fact LE asked if he ever went back to his house to check on his sister and mom and EN said no.

 

[sonjay]

After the 1st shooting the Meyers did not pass EN's house they went straight home per testimony, they would have had to pass their street in order to pass EN's house. EN went into the cul-de-sac and fired away. The Meyers were not at EN's house when TM was shot and killed, they were in front of their own house. The Jury will want to know why EN was on that cul-de-sac shooting at a fleeing man and people in the car. EN in his own words told 2 or 3 people that no one shot at him. The Meyers fled the 1st shootout, they retreated, EN however didn't. In fact LE asked if he ever went back to his house to check on his sister and mom and EN said no.

BBM.

Well, first, we only have BM's testimony on that, and it's worthless.

And second, even if he's telling the truth about that, from EN's POV, as the silver car traveled west on Alta, and EN looked north on Carmel Peak as the silver car passed Carmel Peak — if he saw the green car approaching/entering the intersection of Cherry River and Carmel Peak, he could easily have thought the green car was about to drive right past his house. In fact, EN told Mogg he thought they were going past his house.

It's not so much a question of what the green car did at that point; it's a question of what EN reasonably believed it was doing. The green car had just chased him without provocation, and only broke off the chase when he shot at them. It seems to me to be very believable that he thought they were about to drive right past his house. Up to that point, the Meyerses had been the aggressors. When EN thought he saw them about to drive right past his house, it's very plausible, IMO, that he thought they were still aggressing.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

It's not so much a question of what the green car did at that point; it's a question of what EN reasonably believed it was doing. The green car had just chased him without provocation, and only broke off the chase when he shot at them. It seems to me to be very believable that he thought they were about to drive right past his house. Up to that point, the Meyerses had been the aggressors. When EN thought he saw them about to drive right past his house, it's very plausible, IMO, that he thought they were still aggressing.

Yes, it's like what the Meyers themselves were doing where they say they were acting defensively by leaving their house since they thought an aggressive car was in their general vicinity, which the Meyers then traveled miles from their house after KM thought she might have seen the Audi nearby versus EN who travelled far less than a mile when he thought an aggressive car was near his home. I don't think either the Meyers or EN were right, but if the DA says there was nothing wrong with the Meyers leaving their home to look for an aggressive car then it opens it up to the defense to say what is good for the Meyers is good for EN as well. If the DA takes that tack, I don't think EN would get off, but it certainly would open up the possibility as the more the DA justifies the Meyers leaving their home being OK to protect their home the more it can be seized on by the defense.

 

[sonjay]

Yes, it's like what the Meyers themselves were doing where they say they were acting defensively by leaving their house since they thought an aggressive car was in their general vicinity, which the Meyers then traveled miles from their house after KM thought she might have seen the Audi nearby versus EN who travelled far less than a mile when he thought an aggressive car was near his home. I don't think either the Meyers or EN were right, but if the DA says there was nothing wrong with the Meyers leaving their home to look for an aggressive car then it opens it up to the defense to say what is good for the Meyers is good for EN as well. If the DA takes that tack, I don't think EN would get off, but it certainly would open up the possibility as the more the DA justifies the Meyers leaving their home being OK to protect their home the more it can be seized on by the defense.

I seriously think the prosecution would be better off finding out what really happened that night, and presenting that to the jury. This fairy tale of the similar silver cars, mistaken identity, and the elusive road rage dude who resembles the missing-now-dead cousin...... it just doesn't fly. It's absurd. No, it's beyond absurd. If you wrote this story as a script for a Hollywood movie, they'd kick you out on your butt due to its sheer absurdity. Ed Wood made more realistic movies than this story would be.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Per the court the trial has been moved to 6/18:
https://twitter.com/LasVegasCourts?lang=en

 

[PaperDoll]

Derrick Andrews, the alleged getaway driver in the slaying of 44-year-old mother of four Tammy Meyers, has hired new attorneys.Defense lawyers Josh Tomsheck and Roy Nelson stepped in Thursday to represent Andrews, who is charged along with the suspected gunman, Erich Nowsch. - See more at:


http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/suspected-driver-tammy-meyers-slaying-gets-new-lawyers

 

[Cobra Jet]

I’m eager for the trial to get underway so we can find out if the DA has information that they have not released to the public. I’m hoping that it helps to explain some of the odd things surrounding this case.

 

[PaperDoll]

I’m eager for the trial to get underway so we can find out if the DA has information that they have not released to the public. I’m hoping that it helps to explain some of the odd things surrounding this case.

I'm eager too I hope it will be televised.