NV NV - Wellington, WhtMale 574UMNV, 35-50, off Sand Canyon Road, Mar'92 - #1

[Miss Muffet]

BBM
Did you find the drawing on the t shirt??????? If so, can you post it for us?????

I don't recall seeing it on a t-shirt. I do plan to post everything. I'll have time soon. My husband is leaving on a business trip tonight.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Hen harrier is what I got from Audubon. It looks close.

I've seen the hen harrier pictures and thought tail did look similar in its pattern--(though the Audubon people have a heck of a lot more credentials to say so). I'll try to do the side-by-side you requested.

Sorry, I've gotta give the opinion of the experts at the National Aviary more weight. I spent over an hour with them in person today.

All due respect, I pretty much respect the Audubon peeps, too...so darnit, not sure all these experts are helping us come to a firm conclusion. Like several have wondered, is it essential to know which bird it is? (I'll admit to being very curious as to why it would be...though I can understand why it might matter which artist it was that designed it, for dating purposes.)

It could be a mythological bird. That's what makes this so difficult.

Yep. Artist-drawn, but unless the person is specifically a scientific artist (eg. for field guides), there's always that artistic license to contend with.

I was able to date the drawing of this dead artist to the 80s via the books. I had seen the drawing on the internet, and then found it in the books yesterday. Let's hope his son has a good memory. He's old enough he wouldn't have been a child at the time.

I've about deduced (from dating the underwear and hat) that it was likely a 1980s (maybe late 70s) shirt...but are you saying you found the t-shirt picture and know who the artist is? That would help narrow things down considerably.

Thank you sooooooo much for visiting your local used book store! When I have time, I will check out other locations in my area. I feel the more used book stores we hit to flip through books from the 70s and 80s, the greater our odds.

Ah, you're welcome, though I have to admit, it's a favorite haunt, so it's no hardship to find a reason to go there.

 

[Dylgem22]

Steleheart, I am slowly but surely coming to the wings idea versus the birch bark lol my first impression was a bird perched on the trunk of a birch tree because the wings looked less detailed compared to the tail, so I didn't think they were feathers ..l but after searching the Internet and all the research being done, I can be convinced the graphic is of the tail AND spread wings ...

 

[Dylgem22]

What is everyone else seeing as the title on this thread? I thought they changed it to NV Near Wellington... and left off the dog like Mmarty asked, but it keeps coming up with the old title for some reason.

I too earlier had the thread pull up as Sand Canyon Road without the dog collar description and now it pulls up as originally with the dog collar, etc ...

 

[GGE]

I just went through a drawer with some various souvenir shirts from the 80s and 90s. The 90s ones are largely "Jerzees" brand. The 80's ones are a mix of Hanes Best, Anvil, and Jerzees.

Not too helpful but might as well mention it. I would guess places could order their desired shirts from companies who offered a given house brand of shirt to put the print onto. I can't imagine this being helpful like I said, but.. can't hurt to hit "post".

edit: sorry the other 80's one was Screen Stars.

 

[GGE]

I just decided to look at some used shirts for sale on ebay and I came across this one, which is NOT our shirt -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Colorado-Bi...337?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item259bc98961

- but I see the shirt advertises the state of Colorado and features "Birds of Prey" which caught my attention... the brand name is "Habitat" which sounds like a promising brand name to try adding to future searches, or company to contact perhaps if anyone would want to try that. Just an idea.

 

[carbuff]

I'm finding the owls considerably less stressful to look at than the hawks. Even when they're striking, they don't look quite so vicious.

One cool thing I learned: the owl as spirit animal is the silent witness who observes and makes the truth that was hidden become known. So if it was an owl on the shirt, here's hoping it will lead us to truth and justice...

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Tulessa, here's the side-by-side you requested of the Hen Harrier and the t-shirt photo:

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Two things to keep in mind, it seems from today's work:

1) A "peregrine falcon" is also called a "great-footed hawk"--so I'm not so sure that the peregrine has been ruled out (I know...bear with me!) This bird's tail feathers can be drawn as fanned out (usually for soaring or landing) or tucked back (usually for fast flight or diving).

2) An t-shirt artist's rendition can overlap between these various birds of prey, as the art form seemingly has a far amount of latitude. The Big Bend tee with the peregrine falcon shows the peregrine (or great-footed hawk) as having black-tipped tail feathers. But the photos I've found online show the peregrine/great-footed hawk to have white tips on its tail-feathers.

 

[Miss Muffet]

BBM
Did you find the drawing on the t shirt??????? If so, can you post it for us?????

...but are you saying you found the t-shirt picture and know who the artist is? That would help narrow things down considerably.

It's not the exact drawing. But it's an artist whose draw is on the internet and in books from the 80s. I've found some of his paintings of hawks too. So, this man did many birds. I'm just hoping, hoping, hoping. I'll post soon.

I just went through a drawer with some various souvenir shirts from the 80s and 90s. The 90s ones are largely "Jerzees" brand. The 80's ones are a mix of Hanes Best, Anvil, and Jerzees.

Not too helpful but might as well mention it. I would guess places could order their desired shirts from companies who offered a given house brand of shirt to put the print onto. I can't imagine this being helpful like I said, but.. can't hurt to hit "post".

I'm glad you hit post. Your old souvenir shirts can help. Can you tell if the souvenir shirts from that time period look mostly mass produced or do they seem top quality silkscreening? I learned 3d printing started in the 80s and digital printing started in the 90s. I feel we're dealing with a quality silkscreen shirt here. I'm hoping the average souvenir shirts aren't of the same quality. It will be very difficult to narrow down the origin of this t-shirt if it was mass produced on a grand scale. How are the colors of your shirts holding up after all these years?

 

[Steleheart]

Steleheart, I am slowly but surely coming to the wings idea versus the birch bark lol my first impression was a bird perched on the trunk of a birch tree because the wings looked less detailed compared to the tail, so I didn't think they were feathers ..l but after searching the Internet and all the research being done, I can be convinced the graphic is of the tail AND spread wings ...

LOLOL
The highlight of my day was hearing that the experts said we shouldn't disregard the Great Horned Owl, because the pattern on the feathers is like a disorganized bark-like pattern. HAHA

 

[carbuff]

Mmarty, can you tell us the approximate dimensions of of that piece of the shirt? The description says upper right neck and arm -- but would you say it's a quarter of the front? Or smaller?

 

[carbuff]

LOLOL
The highlight of my day was hearing that the experts said we shouldn't disregard the Great Horned Owl, because the pattern on the feathers is like a disorganized bark-like pattern. HAHA

Can you find the horned owl in the birch tree?

 

[Miss Muffet]

One thing that's interesting when looking through images of Red Tailed Hawks is they are so vastly different from one another. Regardless, can someone post a side by side of this red tail since the feather pattern is very clear in this picture?

 

[GGE]

I'm glad you hit post. Your old souvenir shirts can help. Can you tell if the souvenir shirts from that time period look mostly mass produced or do they seem top quality silkscreening? I learned 3d printing started in the 80s and digital printing started in the 90s. I feel we're dealing with a quality silkscreen shirt here. I'm hoping the average souvenir shirts aren't of the same quality. It will be very difficult to narrow down the origin of this t-shirt if it was mass produced on a grand scale. How are the colors of your shirts holding up after all these years?

My mother's Lehigh Valley, PA shirt is the most washed and worn of all of them... and also the most "stereotypical souvenir" type.. the print on the front actually still looks and feels pretty darn good. I have others that are rougher and more cracked feeling but those are mostly concert *advertiser censored* from the mid to late 80s on second look.

I think this shirt is a fair representation of the majority of souvenir "gift shop" type shirts from about 1985-7 or so, which would be when she got it. I will post a pic in a bit if possible (I did pack them back away so it might be morning before I get them back out). The color of the shirt itself is still vibrant green, but since the detectives feel the shirt in question here is white (and we know it's stained) I suppose that's besides the point.

The ones that I have from the 90s are from the mid 90s and are stitched, not printed, so only the brand would be possibly helpful. I'll double check for details though...

 

[Steleheart]

Can you find the horned owl in the birch tree?

:silly:

Just Perfect!! ! :floorlaugh:

 

[Miss Muffet]

I'm about to throw ANOTHER monkey in the wrench.

I reached out to Yosemite National Park last week and just received a response. The National Park Service does NOT design or sell t-shirts. Apparently, all of the stores at National Parks are leased. Well, that at least saves us the time of wasting our efforts contacting national parks.

Here's the monkey. Yosemite's ornithologist says it looks like an American Kestrel. It's a small bird. I looked at it in image search, and I completely disagree. But this tells me we're going to get different answers from every expert!

I feel identifying the bird is wasting my resources. I'm going to stop focusing on what type of bird, and start focusing on finding the artist. I have ideas on how to do that, and my appointments this week are related to that. Before I move on, I will post the pictures from the books for anyone who wants to continue focusing on the type of bird.

 

[carbuff]

When I was working with the greatly enlarged photo, I saw no trace of cracking or peeling, not even in the heavily stained areas. The ink didn't seem to have washed out or faded much, either. The material looked like it was probably slightly heavier than standard t-shirt material -- maybe what they advertise as "beefy" tee or something like that. The design itself seems to be sharp and clear, with no bleeding or blurring at the edges of the ink patches.

 

[Miss Muffet]

My mother's Lehigh Valley, PA shirt is the most washed and worn of all of them... and also the most "stereotypical souvenir" type.. the print on the front actually still looks and feels pretty darn good. I have others that are rougher and more cracked feeling but those are mostly concert *advertiser censored* from the mid to late 80s on second look.

I think this shirt is a fair representation of the majority of souvenir "gift shop" type shirts from about 1985-7 or so, which would be when she got it. I will post a pic in a bit if possible (I did pack them back away so it might be morning before I get them back out). The color of the shirt itself is still vibrant green, but since the detectives feel the shirt in question here is white (and we know it's stained) I suppose that's besides the point.

The ones that I have from the 90s are from the mid 90s and are stitched, not printed, so only the brand would be possibly helpful. I'll double check for details though...

No need to further investigate the hand stitched ones.

That's great information on the Lehigh Valley shirt. It sounds like its an iron patch type t-shirt. I'm going to look in my attic tomorrow to see if I have any souvenir shirts.

If anyone else has shirts from the 80s, please share the quality of them and what type of store you bought them at if you can remember.

 

[GGE]

My mother's Lehigh Valley, PA shirt is the most washed and worn of all of them... and also the most "stereotypical souvenir" type.. the print on the front actually still looks and feels pretty darn good. I have others that are rougher and more cracked feeling but those are mostly concert *advertiser censored* from the mid to late 80s on second look.

I think this shirt is a fair representation of the majority of souvenir "gift shop" type shirts from about 1985-7 or so, which would be when she got it. I will post a pic in a bit if possible (I did pack them back away so it might be morning before I get them back out). The color of the shirt itself is still vibrant green, but since the detectives feel the shirt in question here is white (and we know it's stained) I suppose that's besides the point.

The ones that I have from the 90s are from the mid 90s and are stitched, not printed, so only the brand would be possibly helpful. I'll double check for details though...

Here's her shirt from 85-87. The tag says "Jerzees by Russell". Later souvenir shirts in my collection by Jerzees do not say "by Russell".