NY - $250m fraud against Former President Donald Trump, Trump Org., Eric, Donald Jr., Sept 2022, Trial 2 Oct 2023

[Inthedetails]

SEP 26, 2023

Trump Committed Fraud By Inflating His Assets, Judge Rules

New York Attorney General Letitia James has argued Trump inflated his net worth by $3.6 billion.

www.forbes.com

[...]

WHAT TO WATCH FOR:​

The trial against Trump and his business allies is set to begin on Monday and run until December, though that date remains slightly up in the air. An appeals court temporarily delayed the trial earlier this month amid a lawsuit between Trump and the judge—the appellate judges will hear arguments this week, and could let the trial proceed as scheduled. While Engoron already ruled on part of the case by finding Trump and his co-defendants guilty of fraud, the trial will still go forward on other allegations—such as falsifying business records, financial statements and committing insurance fraud—as well as determining whether there was intent to commit fraud and the damages Trump and his co-defendants will face.

[...]

This is a better explanation than mine as I had some things not quite right. Thank you!

jmo

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Every time I read Trump Org my brain processes it as Sea Org.

 

[Inthedetails]

Here's a direct link to the judge's ruling today. Summary: Trump committed fraud.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23991885/452564_2022_people_of_the_state_of_v_people_of_the_state_of_decision___order_on_1531.pdf

 

[Inthedetails]

Here's a direct link to the judge's ruling today. Summary: Trump committed fraud.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23991885/452564_2022_people_of_the_state_of_v_people_of_the_state_of_decision___order_on_1531.pdf

Whoa. I'm just scrolling through the document and found these doozies, bbm.

• "Defendants' arguments that the factual record developed in discovery changed the landscape under which standing should be viewed is legally preposterous."
  
  
• "That is a fantasy world, not the real world." (This is in response to a defense argument.)
  
  
• "Unfortunately, sanctions are the only way to impress upon defendants' attorneys the consequences of engaging in repetitive, frivolous motion practice after this Court, affirmed by the Appellate Division, warned them against doing so." (Note: The lawyers were sanctioned $7500 each.)
  
  
• "[D]efendant's reliance on these "worthless" disclaimers is worthless."
  
  
• "The defenses Donald Trump attempts to articulate in his sworn deposition are wholly without basis in law or fact." (Note: I rather admire the phrase "attempts to articulate.")
  
  
• In a footnote to a claim by defense that documents do not say what they say and the Court should not believe its own eyes, the judge quotes Chico Marx in Duck Soup: "well, who gonna believe, me or your own eyes?"
  
  
• "This argument does not hold water" and then goes on to discuss liquid assets. ( )
  
  
• "Rather, time and time again, the Court is not comparing one appraisal to another; it is comparing an independent professional appraisal to a pie-in-the-sky dream of concocted potential."

I'm sure there are more doozies.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23991885/452564_2022_people_of_the_state_of_v_people_of_the_state_of_decision___order_on_1531.pdf

 

[Lilibet]

• "Unfortunately, sanctions are the only way to impress upon defendants' attorneys the consequences of engaging in repetitive, frivolous motion practice after this Court, affirmed by the Appellate Division, warned them against doing so." (Note: The lawyers were sanctioned $7500 each.)

On another thread today, the expression “sealioning” (or sea-lioning) was used and discussed. While this expression applies to online debate trolling, the defendants’ attorneys “engaging in repetitive, frivolous motion practice” reminded me of this expression. In any case, it’s a nifty expression to add to our vocabulary.

Sealioning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The sealioner feigns ignorance and politeness while making relentless demands for answers and evidence (while often ignoring or sidestepping any evidence the target has already presented), under the guise of "just trying to have a debate",[1][2][4][9] so that when the target is eventually provoked into an angry response, the sealioner can act as the aggrieved party, and the target presented as closed-minded and unreasonable.[3][10][11] It has been described as "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate".

 

[Lilibet]

Whoa. I'm just scrolling through the document and found these doozies, bbm.

• "Defendants' arguments that the factual record developed in discovery changed the landscape under which standing should be viewed is legally preposterous."
  
  
• "That is a fantasy world, not the real world." (This is in response to a defense argument.)
  
  
• "Unfortunately, sanctions are the only way to impress upon defendants' attorneys the consequences of engaging in repetitive, frivolous motion practice after this Court, affirmed by the Appellate Division, warned them against doing so." (Note: The lawyers were sanctioned $7500 each.)
  
  
• "[D]efendant's reliance on these "worthless" disclaimers is worthless."
  
  
• "The defenses Donald Trump attempts to articulate in his sworn deposition are wholly without basis in law or fact." (Note: I rather admire the phrase "attempts to articulate.")
  
  
• In a footnote to a claim by defense that documents do not say what they say and the Court should not believe its own eyes, the judge quotes Chico Marx in Duck Soup: "well, who gonna believe, me or your own eyes?"
  
  
• "This argument does not hold water" and then goes on to discuss liquid assets. ( )
  
  
• "Rather, time and time again, the Court is not comparing one appraisal to another; it is comparing an independent professional appraisal to a pie-in-the-sky dream of concocted potential."

I'm sure there are more doozies.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23991885/452564_2022_people_of_the_state_of_v_people_of_the_state_of_decision___order_on_1531.pdf

I particularly liked this zinger…

“Capacity and standing are not esoteric concepts. Infants, legally declared incompetents, and persons under certain legally declared disabilities are not allowed to sue. The New York Attorney General is none of the above.”

(page 10, paragraph 2)

 

[JerseyGirl]

New York judge rules Trump committed fraud and lied about net worth for years

The judge, Arthur Engoron, also denied Trump's bid to dismiss the New York attorney general's $250 million lawsuit against him and his company.

www.nbcnews.com

At one point the judge pointed to Trump having exaggerated the size of his New York apartment to pump up its value, repeatedly claiming it was over 30,000 feet when it was a third of that size.

“A discrepancy of this order of magnitude, by a real estate developer sizing up his own living space of decades, can only be considered fraud,” Engoron wrote.

The judge found Trump, his sons Don Jr. and Eric, and their companies liable for fraud.

He also denied Trump's motion for summary judgment that argued New York Attorney General Letitia James' lawsuit should be dismissed. Engoron sanctioned Trump's attorneys $7,500 each for making legal arguments that had already been rejected twice.

The judge further ordered that the outstanding issues in the case will get resolved at trial.

 

[Inthedetails]

New York judge rules Trump committed fraud and lied about net worth for years

The judge, Arthur Engoron, also denied Trump's bid to dismiss the New York attorney general's $250 million lawsuit against him and his company.

www.nbcnews.com

At one point the judge pointed to Trump having exaggerated the size of his New York apartment to pump up its value, repeatedly claiming it was over 30,000 feet when it was a third of that size.

“A discrepancy of this order of magnitude, by a real estate developer sizing up his own living space of decades, can only be considered fraud,” Engoron wrote.

The judge found Trump, his sons Don Jr. and Eric, and their companies liable for fraud.

He also denied Trump's motion for summary judgment that argued New York Attorney General Letitia James' lawsuit should be dismissed. Engoron sanctioned Trump's attorneys $7,500 each for making legal arguments that had already been rejected twice.

The judge further ordered that the outstanding issues in the case will get resolved at trial.

Yeah, the judge addressed Trump's claim that square-footage calculation is subjective with responding, basically, "no, it isn't."

jmo

p.s. It might make our heads explode with more court cases to follow, but Trump is suing Michael Cohen and will be disposed on Oct 3 (the day after this trial begins).

 

[JerseyGirl]

Judge rules Trump engaged in repeated fraud, effectively deciding central question in $250M civil trial

Donald Trump submitted "fraudulent valuations" for real estate that were then used by himself and his business to obtain better loan and insurance terms, a judge decided.

abcnews.go.com

Eric Trump, who runs the Trump Organization's day-to-day operations, responded on X, previously known as Twitter, saying, "Today, I lost all faith in the New York legal system. Never before have I seen such hatred toward one person by a judge."

"We have run an exceptional company -- never missing a loan payment, making banks hundreds of millions of dollars, developing some of the most iconic assets in the world. Yet today, the persecution of our family continues..." he said.

Donald Trump, also on X, reposted a previous post in which he said, "THE BANKS WERE PAID BACK IN FULL, SOMETIMES EARLY, THERE WERE NO DEFAULTS, THE BANKS MADE MONEY, WERE REPRESENTED BY THE BEST LAW FIRMS, & WERE VERY 'HAPPY.' THERE WERE NO VICTIMS!"

Trump attorney Alina Habba said they intend to "immediately" appeal the decision, calling the Trump Organization "an American success story."

James, in a statement, said, "Today, a judge ruled in our favor and found that Donald Trump and the Trump Organization engaged in years of financial fraud. We look forward to presenting the rest of our case at trial."

 

[JerseyGirl]

Engoron also found that Trump inflated the value of his Mar-a-Lago club by at least 2,300%, claiming the property assessed by the county between $18 million and $27.6 million was actually worth between $426,529,614 and $612,110,496.

In total, Engoron wrote that the New York attorney general "submitted conclusive evidence" that the defendants overvalued their assets between $812 million and $2.2 billion.

"In defendants' world: rent regulated apartments are worth the same as unregulated apartments; restricted land is worth the same as unrestricted land; restrictions can evaporate into thin air; a disclaimer by one party casting responsibility on another party exonerates the other party's lies..." Engoron wrote, citing multiple arguments made by defense to justify the allegedly inflated valuations of Trump's assets. "That is a fantasy world, not the real world."

Engoron also appeared to use the words of former President Trump against him, citing a transcript from a deposition of Trump about the inclusion of so-called "worthless clauses," disclaimers included in financial statements which defense has argued insulate the defendants from liability.

"However, defendants' reliance on these 'worthless' disclaimers is worthless," Engoron wrote, rejecting a frequent argument cited by the defense.

Judge rules Trump engaged in repeated fraud, effectively deciding central question in $250M civil trial

Donald Trump submitted "fraudulent valuations" for real estate that were then used by himself and his business to obtain better loan and insurance terms, a judge decided.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Inthedetails]

On another thread today, the expression “sealioning” (or sea-lioning) was used and discussed. While this expression applies to online debate trolling, the defendants’ attorneys “engaging in repetitive, frivolous motion practice” reminded me of this expression. In any case, it’s a nifty expression to add to our vocabulary.

Sealioning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The sealioner feigns ignorance and politeness while making relentless demands for answers and evidence (while often ignoring or sidestepping any evidence the target has already presented), under the guise of "just trying to have a debate",[1][2][4][9] so that when the target is eventually provoked into an angry response, the sealioner can act as the aggrieved party, and the target presented as closed-minded and unreasonable.[3][10][11] It has been described as "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate".

I can envision that word coming in handy.

jmo

 

[JerseyGirl]

The judge immediately canceled all of the defendants' business certificates in New York, and ordered that they must recommend no more than three potential independent receivers to manage the dissolution of the canceled LLCs within 10 days.

The move severely restricts Trump's ability to conduct business in New York going forward.

Judge rules Trump engaged in repeated fraud, effectively deciding central question in $250M civil trial

Donald Trump submitted "fraudulent valuations" for real estate that were then used by himself and his business to obtain better loan and insurance terms, a judge decided.

abcnews.go.com

 

[kaen]

It is amazing to me that a man whose organization regularly refused to pay vendors/workers for the work done on properties, who undervalued his properties in order to pay less taxes (NYS), and who had the audacity to continue to highjack the questions in the depositions continues to be supported by so many people. His crimes are not victimless in these fraud cases. Yes, he paid the banks back but he inflated the value for the banks and, then, devalued the properties for taxes. We are all victims of his ilk. We had a whole subprime mortgage crisis which was started by people doing this kind of garbage. The people of NJ paid for his failed casino. The people of NY and other states paid for his Trump U fraud. The people of Westchester County NY were cheated on their tax base which funds local police, fire etc.

There are people in jail who committed less fraud or lower amount of money frauds. He is lucking out that is facing the music in a civil court--- ask the casino vendors who never got paid or who had to take a huge cut while he got banks to value his properties at a higher level what they want to happen to him. Just makes me gag.

 

[sds71]

@EricTrump

Today, I lost all faith in the New York legal system. Never before have I seen such hatred toward one person by a judge - a coordinated effort with the Attorney General to destroy a man’s life, company and accomplishments. We have run an exceptional company - never missing a loan payment, making banks hundreds of millions of dollars, developing some of the most iconic assets in the world. Yet today, the persecution of our family continues…

In an attempt to destroy my father and kick him out of New York, a Judge just ruled that Mar-a-Lago, in Palm Beach Florida, is only worth approximate “$18 Million dollars”… Mar-a-Lago is speculated to be worth we’ll over a billion dollars making it arguably the most valuable residential property in the country. It is all so corrupt and coordinated.

The real estate circles in Florida are laughing at this foolishness.

 

[JerseyGirl]

PowerPoints:

In a PowerPoint used to argue its motion, James’ office suggested Trump and his co-defendants used “deceptive practices” like disregarding appraisals and legal restrictions to misrepresent their assets. The former president inflated his net worth by as much as $2.2 billion, the office claimed in prior court filings.

Trump and his co-defendants argued in their own PowerPoint that the foundation of the New York attorney general’s office’s case is to “ignore everything,” from profitable business transactions to established case law

Judge rules Trump committed fraud in building real estate empire

A New York judge found former President Trump liable for fraud Tuesday, ruling that New York Attorney General Letitia James (D) had proven the core elements of her sprawling civil case against Trum…

thehill.com

 

[Inthedetails]

@EricTrump

Today, I lost all faith in the New York legal system. Never before have I seen such hatred toward one person by a judge - a coordinated effort with the Attorney General to destroy a man’s life, company and accomplishments. We have run an exceptional company - never missing a loan payment, making banks hundreds of millions of dollars, developing some of the most iconic assets in the world. Yet today, the persecution of our"it' family continues…

In an attempt to destroy my father and kick him out of New York, a Judge just ruled that Mar-a-Lago, in Palm Beach Florida, is only worth approximate “$18 Million dollars”… Mar-a-Lago is speculated to be worth we’ll over a billion dollars making it arguably the most valuable residential property in the country. It is all so corrupt and coordinated.

The real estate circles in Florida are laughing at this foolishness.

"It's speculated" is not an admissible fact in court, but I guess it works for tweeting to supporters.

jmo

 

[JerseyGirl]

Donald Trump found liable for fraud in New York civil case

A New York judge found Donald Trump and his family business fraudulently inflated the value of his properties and other assets, in a major defeat for the former U.S. president that could severely hamper his ability to do business in the state.

www.reuters.com

Engoron also chided Trump for offering defenses in a deposition that were "wholly without basis," including that there was nothing wrong with how he valued properties in a given year if their values subsequently went up.

"He also seems to imply that the numbers cannot be inflated because he could find a 'buyer from Saudi Arabia' to pay any price he suggests," the judge wrote.

 

[musicaljoke]

It is amazing to me that a man whose organization regularly refused to pay vendors/workers for the work done on properties, who undervalued his properties in order to pay less taxes (NYS), and who had the audacity to continue to highjack the questions in the depositions continues to be supported by so many people. His crimes are not victimless in these fraud cases. Yes, he paid the banks back but he inflated the value for the banks and, then, devalued the properties for taxes. We are all victims of his ilk. We had a whole subprime mortgage crisis which was started by people doing this kind of garbage. The people of NJ paid for his failed casino. The people of NY and other states paid for his Trump U fraud. The people of Westchester County NY were cheated on their tax base which funds local police, fire etc.

There are people in jail who committed less fraud or lower amount of money frauds. He is lucking out that is facing the music in a civil court--- ask the casino vendors who never got paid or who had to take a huge cut while he got banks to value his properties at a higher level what they want to happen to him. Just makes me gag.

Do we know that T paid the banks back? I believe that he did not pay back his loans.

We’re watching Trump’s 7th bankruptcy unfold

Column: A lengthy list of Trump's disastrous business deals — compiled by his newest business partners

How Donald Trump Bankrupted His Atlantic City Casinos, but Still Earned Millions (Published 2016)

Mr. Trump boasts of his success at the Jersey Shore resort, but regulatory reviews, court records and security filings indicate otherwise. And others paid the price.

www.nytimes.com

Fourth Time's A Charm: How Donald Trump Made Bankruptcy Work For Him

How has Donald Trump survived four bouts with corporate bankruptcy and come out on top, with a fortune we value at $2.7 billion? We break it down.

www.forbes.com

 

[ReadingRenee]

NY AG Letitia James is referring the results of her investigation into former president Trump, his children, and corporation to the IRS Criminal Division and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York for possible criminal prosecution.

Tish James says Trump tax records seized by the FBI from Mar-a-Lago may have been concealed from her investigators.

We uncovered more than 200 examples of asset value inflation. She says Trump did so “by any means necessarily” in a scheme “that became more profitable over time”

“Deutsche Bank is cooperating”

"Mar-a-Lago was valued as high as $739 million, but should have been valued at around $75 million.. "A statement valued rent-stabilized apartments in the Trump Park Avenue, collectively worth $750,000, as valued at nearly $50 million"

AG James preemptively responds to criticism that this probe is “witch hunt”… saying it originated after Michael Cohen testified in Congress years ago

222 pages:

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_complaint.pdf

https://twitter.com/x/status/1572611664339677186

Something about James is not ringing true. I guess they have no real estate comps or valuations from that time but the value goes up with Trump's name so this will be interesting

 

[musicaljoke]

Something about James is not ringing true. I guess they have no real estate comps or valuations from that time but the value goes up with Trump's name so this will be interesting

Trump buildings have been losing value. In some places it's been so bad they've taken the Trump name off the buildings.

Trump properties suffer price slump as gilded name loses its shine

Trump-Branded Buildings in Manhattan Have Lost 21 Percent of Their Value
From the article: "It appears that people simply don’t want to live in a Trump-branded building anymore: Trump-branded properties in Manhattan have lost 21.5 percent of their value since Trump took office, according to NYC real-estate data firm UrbanDigs. Even properties that used to bear Trump’s name are feeling the pinch, losing about 17 percent of their value, compared to a 9 percent drop for Manhattan as a whole."