Identified! NY - Central Valley, Harriman State Park, WhtFem 30-55, UP9736, dyed hair, mother's ring, May'84 - Name withheld

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So this case's NamUs was updated with pictures of the rings. One was already posted on here, one wasn't. Here's the copies from NamUs:

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alllads said:
I've found a May 20th 1984 article about this, published in the The Journal News.

It's actually not State Route 6, but US Route 6 - and it was a stretch running through Harriman State Park. The body was about 120 feet from the road. The body was off the stretch of Route 6 between Route 293 and the Queensboro Traffic Circle (which is right outside of Doodletown). From an article published that June - it was the south shoulder of Route 6.

Also, from the article the cause of death was gunshot(s). From another article - the gunshot(s) was/were to the torso, but police did not disclose the calibre of the weapon nor how many gunshots there were.

Attached is a photo from the June article - that is the jewelery found on the body (excluding the necklace).

The mother's ring did NOT have real gemstones, but coloured glass made in aquamarine and ruby colours. The engagement ring was "real" though, and in 1984 said to be worth $3000. It was supposedly probably made in the 1940s or 1950s, and had seen quite a bit of wear.

Another detail - View attachment 99013

Other details:
-The woman did NOT have a dental bridge.
-The mother's ring had "a solid gold bottom that split into braids where the stones were held"
-Also, parts of clothing associated with "warm weather wear" were located on the remains - so I guess indicating that it may have been a cold time of year when this woman died. However, another article contradicts this and most others don't mention it.
Click to expand...

Huh, I know where this is.

https://goo.gl/maps/4qAqkULpHnv

I drove Mr. Carbuff and some of his hiking buddies to Bear Mountain State Park just outside of Doodletown last year. Drove on that stretch of road several times going back and forth trying to find the trail head :p It's quite rural but it's also pretty busy. It's only a bit over an hour north of New York City and only about ten miles from I-87 (the New York Thruway). There are huge campgrounds and areas with cabins and lodges not very far away. The area around Harriman/Bear Mountain parks seemed to be popular with people commuting in to the NYC area, but I don't think that would have been the case in the early 80's. Most of the houses looked newer than that.

We were there in May, just a bit ahead of the big tourist season. The ranger I chatted with said that on hot summer weekends, the traffic would be backed up a mile or two in all directions.
 
eekasaur said:
I agree...I've owned a few birthstone jewelry pieces and NEVER pick my own birthstone, as it's a kind of unappealing orange/yellow (November). I always go for October or December...prettier colors. Perhaps the doe's favorite colors were aqua and red (plus one more that is missing)? I also have a ring with my favorite color and my boyfriend's favorite color...I don't really associate us with our birth month colors, but rather our favorite colors, so perhaps the doe associated her children with their favorite colors, instead.
Click to expand...

I love pale yellow Citrine even though it's not my birthstone. I think it's so pretty. My friend, whose birthday is in November, likes it more on the orange side. Mine is peridot, and I prefer the drab/olive shade instead of the light bright green.
 
alllads said:
I've found a May 20th 1984 article about this, published in the The Journal News.

It's actually not State Route 6, but US Route 6 - and it was a stretch running through Harriman State Park. The body was about 120 feet from the road. The body was off the stretch of Route 6 between Route 293 and the Queensboro Traffic Circle (which is right outside of Doodletown). From an article published that June - it was the south shoulder of Route 6.

Also, from the article the cause of death was gunshot(s). From another article - the gunshot(s) was/were to the torso, but police did not disclose the calibre of the weapon nor how many gunshots there were.

Attached is a photo from the June article - that is the jewelery found on the body (excluding the necklace).

The mother's ring did NOT have real gemstones, but coloured glass made in aquamarine and ruby colours. The engagement ring was "real" though, and in 1984 said to be worth $3000. It was supposedly probably made in the 1940s or 1950s, and had seen quite a bit of wear.

Another detail - View attachment 99013

Other details:
-The woman did NOT have a dental bridge.
-The mother's ring had "a solid gold bottom that split into braids where the stones were held"
-Also, parts of clothing associated with "warm weather wear" were located on the remains - so I guess indicating that it may have been a cold time of year when this woman died. However, another article contradicts this and most others don't mention it.
Click to expand...

Can you post the article?
 
Elizabeth Hicks Rogers

Date missing-3/15/83 from Raleigh NC.
Age-52
Height-5'2
Weight-115-120
Hair Color-says black but at 52 could have been dyed-

18902
rogers_elizabeth.jpg


Classito
 
Made a call today (my first) in a possible match. She may match missing person Patricia Louise Kelley http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...tricia-Louise-Kelley-25-Cleveland-19-Aug-1983 So I spoke with both Monica of the Forsenics Unit in TN and Daryl Haberneck in NY. Both said they would follow up with me with any findings or even if there are none. For more info see my post on the above link. A little update Daryl said he got the case about 6 months ago. He said that he has been compiling some additional info like hi res pics of the jewelry and things and was in the process of updating DOE network and Nam US files and the like. I will be back if/when I hear anything back. As a side note to those 1st timers . Yes I was nervous. No I have nothing to hide. Yes they both but esp Daryl were very open and thanked me for my looking out. Monica was taking notes to let the lead investigator know. I dont know who that was (didnt think to ask) and he only took my name number and I gave her way more info than she asked for (dont know if thats good or bad.) Daryl on the other hand is the case manager and we dug right in. While on the phone he looked up the other person's DOE network info and NamUS and was taking notes as to why I thought they matched. He seemed to value my opinion and thanked me. He also said that he needed my personal details to be able to add it to his report if needed. (Personal details name, address, phone number, dob ect) he also chatted with me a little about where I am from and my experiences and such. *This was nice. I could see how this could help someone else feel more at ease.* in the end he told me he will get back to me with any news or no news and it could take some time. So lets hope this helps.
 
Welcome physco219 to WebS and thank you for making calls. I don't see you mentioning it in your post but what makes you think this could be Patricia Louise Kelley?
 
Hi there Al Ka. Thanks for the question.

I Guess I should've mentioned that. Well let's start off from the beginning a little bit.

I am on a few pages. Some Facebook groups and the like. I came across "NY DOE" as I am in NY and that's just one of the areas I look in now and again. (There are a few local places near family or where I grew up that I try to keep an eye on.) I also remember reading about the missing person in TN. I believe that one came up because of something similar. I originally was looking to gather some additional info on a different case (veteran doe). (I look at some cases for either something local or maybe no reason at all.) I also forgot that I still had my login info for here. I looked them both over from here and had my doubts but seeing that DNA and Dental Charting is entered...

Anyways as I dug thru I noticed a few things:

The DOE had a similar look to Patricia. Sure that's not a lot to go on but it is a starting point. (Gotta start somewhere.)
Then I started to go down the list of things. Dates seemed about correct time wise.Patricia went missing Aug 19, 1983 and DOE was found May 13, 1984. Ect ect. so this lead me to think well maybe... But lets wait a second here. I want to run down a few things just to clear them up for you and me.

Doe:
NamUS 9736 Case# FMSP 84-296
Found: May 13, 1984
Location: Harriman State Park (Rte 6 also mentioned in some sources) Central Valley, NY
Height: 5'0" - 5'4"
Weight: 100 - 140 pounds
Hair color: Brown (some have listed as dyed with natural gray)
Eye color unknown (possibly due to decomp)
Clothing: Gray shorts
Jewelry: An pierced ear earring, 2 Rings (1 mother ring that had 2 stones and 1 possibly missing)

Patricia Louise Kelley
NamUS 12568
Date Missing: Aug 19, 1983
Height: 5'6"
Weight: 135 pounds
Hair: Brown (doesn't mention if dyed or had gray)
Eyes: Blue
Clothing when went missing: Gray shorts
No jewelry mentioned however she has 2 children. Married or recently divorced. She is reported to have pierced ears.

She was thought to have gone to several places but I can not find that they ever tracked her down to these places. One was FL but if they never had another sighting of her from TN for sure she could've ended up anywhere and NY is just as likely as FL at this point. They both have DNA profiles and to the best of my knowledge neither has been reviewed against any other profiles. Dental charting is also on file for both and so I said I just need to call and have the comparison done as this isn't something I can do or I would have. (lol) So its a long shot but I guess if nothing else it will cross off one more potential off the list, but I am hopeful it brings some closure to someone. This one is a little harder because there is really almost nothing I could find to pin more or less to either. Patricia's family doesn't seem to have a website for her for me to know if she would have had the means for such things like a costly ring, or slightly expensive jewelry, or more info on the hair or anything else like her children's birth month's' to compare to the mother's ring, so I figured let the pros decide. That's it in a nut shell. I will update you all if/when I hear back.

Thoughts?
 
Bless for looking into NY cases, there are just way too many UID cases there.

I have a bit of hesitation about this UID being Patricia, but that's just my opinion. Reasons - age - Patricia was 25, UID estimated age is approx 30 - 55. With skeletal remains estimation is sometimes off, but would someone at 25 have lots of grey hair?

Another reason - Patricia is legally blind - and yet her glasses were left behind! Just this very important detail makes me think she did not leave voluntarily and her traveling anywhere is more of red herring by someone to avoid looking closer to home.

If both have dentals, comparison could be done fast as UID had lots of work done. Keep us updated.

Patricia Louise Kelley profiles:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1785dftn.html
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/12568/34
 
One of my sorority sisters in college was nearly all gray before she was 20, just something genetic in her family.
On a side note,not really related, about the glasses - the first and only "no body" indictments (and eventual convictions) in my state hinged on the fact that the victim's glasses were left behind and she was legally blind. One of my teachers was on the grand jury and I remember he said that was one of the pieces of circumstantial evidence that convinced him she hadn't abandoned her family, like her husband had said.
 
I wonder what made them think she might have been Helen Brach?
 
carbuff said:
I wonder what made them think she might have been Helen Brach?
Click to expand...

Probably due to quite expensive and unusual jewellery - the old expensive gold ring with diamond (European cut) and all other items from gold.
 
Thanks for the blessings. I agree there are many many uid cases not just NY but all over the US. Far more than there should be imho.

I too had a bit of hesitation about this UID being Patricia, but there are some similarities that I said "well if nothing else 1 more to strike from the list. From what I've read and understand bone aging is not very exact esp under Reasons - age - Patricia was 25, UID estimated age is approx 30 - 55. With skeletal remains estimation is sometimes off sometimes by a lot so 5 yrs was nothing really. The hair was brown in both and didn't say natural or anything so maybe yes maybe no, best to just do a dental or dna comparison
to hash it out for sure. Also yes some young ppl get gray hair, (know more than a few) also if she was "kidnapped" stress could lead to some graying too. As far as the glasses, that left me thinking against the match. The only thing there I could think is maybe she had several pairs. I know I do and several look alike too. Also if in captivity she never got them back or just maybe she met her demise much sooner than someone found the UID. All in all the matching things struck me to venture a guess. The only update I have is someone called from the Tenn office (I was driving so the wife took the call) said they were so similar that an additional look was being made and NY was in touch with them too. Still waiting to hear more. If I do I'll post it here ASAP, no worries. From what I was told both have dental and DNA so hope this is updatable soon.
 
Here is a side by side comparison of Patricia and this Jane Doe, for reference:

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While i can see a lot of similarities I also know that Patricia left her prescription eyeglasses at home when she vanished, and she was legally blind without them. That kind of raises a question in my book.
 

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Still waiting. When I'm better I will attempt a follow-up call. I've heard nothing and having only my phone I have no access to the other services.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 
Is there an email for NY State Police? Unfortunately calling is not possible, I am awake when they are asleep and I am not in the US. :(
 
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