GUILTY NY - DM, 6, & FM, 12, Huevelton, 13 August 2014 - #2

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I believe just hers is different and both photos have been cropped to look more like a close up. Maybe they wanted her hair down for possible witness/other victims identification.
 
Sleuthster said:
I believe just hers is different and both photos have been cropped to look more like a close up. Maybe they wanted her hair down for possible witness/other victims identification.
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His hair is slightly different in each photo too (it's just not quite as obvious as hers).

I'm not quite sure why there are 2 versions, though -- maybe one county and one state or federal?
 
PoirotryInMotion said:
Any news on the hearing today for Nicole Vaisey?
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I believe her hearing is tomorrow (Thursday). And the lawyer was considering waiving it.

I'm kinda wondering when they're going to be adding on those new charges? :waiting:

ETA: "St. Lawrence County District Attorney Mary Rain has said additional charges are likely as early as this week."

"She said a preliminary hearing for Vaisey was still scheduled for Thursday."

"St. Lawrence County Sheriff Kevin Wells said Monday that investigators have finished gathering evidence at the home Howells and Vaisey share. He said that it will take time to go through that information and that there had been no decision to file additional charges ahead of the hearing."

http://www.newsday.com/news/region-...cted-amish-girls-sorry-for-suspects-1.9091521
 
I read all of her blogs on Fetlife prior to the removal of her profile. I can assure you, she sought out the relationship with him. She had posts about her first encounter, her second encounter and a third with an ex girlfriend of Howells. Then she posted about feeling jealous of someone else. I went looking last night, if you turn your safe search off on google, look for "Sado_Steve" and/or "Sados_sluts"... you shall find things, though I will warn you, they are sexually explicit if they are even still up.
 
lern2fli said:
I read all of her blogs on Fetlife prior to the removal of her profile. I can assure you, she sought out the relationship with him. She had posts about her first encounter, her second encounter and a third with an ex girlfriend of Howells. Then she posted about feeling jealous of someone else. I went looking last night, if you turn your safe search off on google, look for "Sado_Steve" and/or "Sados_sluts"... you shall find things, though I will warn you, they are sexually explicit if they are even still up.
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I only found one still showing any photos ... and as I see he was a sadist, I don't want to consider what he may have done to the girls ... hopefully what he was "going" to do, and didn't get the chance.
 
lern2fli said:
I read all of her blogs on Fetlife prior to the removal of her profile. I can assure you, she sought out the relationship with him. She had posts about her first encounter, her second encounter and a third with an ex girlfriend of Howells. Then she posted about feeling jealous of someone else. I went looking last night, if you turn your safe search off on google, look for "Sado_Steve" and/or "Sados_sluts"... you shall find things, though I will warn you, they are sexually explicit if they are even still up.
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Well, you took one for the team, and I have no desire to go there, but just need something cleared up. If someone advertises herself as a "submissive" -- and then actively seeks out a certain person to be her "master" -- is that just relating to what goes on in the bedroom? Or like a role-playing thing? Does it really mean he's running the show?
I just keep thinking of a lot of ladies I knew (in my mother's generation) who went through the "pretense" of being the submissive wife, and making the husband feel like he was king of the castle, but in reality they were running the show -- they just knew how to make the guy think the decisions were actually his -- (it's a southern thing, I think)
Not that marriage dynamics of a bygone era have anything at all to do with the "lifestyle" thing -- I'm just trying to figure out just how much the "submissive" is really submissive.
And what the heck was that about an "encounter" with ex-girlfriend??? Like...a date??
 
I had a friend long ago who was in the "scene." He was extremely messed up in a lot of ways, tbh I don't think that was coincidental in his case. Very sad story, his life. But he was "submissive" and talked about it WAY more than I wanted to know, and yes, it's roleplay, essentially. He had his own independent life, job, car, whatever, but they had this roleplaying thing going on. Sometimes he would wear certain pieces of jewelry to work and whatever on "command," but his boyfriend didn't have any say over major life decisions like school, jobs, where to live, etc. He wasn't REALLY a slave, just pretending. And even at that, his boyfriend was really creepy honestly, after all "sadism" was a part of his personality he openly celebrated so it's no surprise that he was mean and cruel even outside the "game." I can't help but think of some of the things I learned from my old friend's tales that I would rather not know as we learn more about this case.
 
Abigail said:
Well, you took one for the team, and I have no desire to go there, but just need something cleared up. If someone advertises herself as a "submissive" -- and then actively seeks out a certain person to be her "master" -- is that just relating to what goes on in the bedroom? Or like a role-playing thing? Does it really mean he's running the show?
I just keep thinking of a lot of ladies I knew (in my mother's generation) who went through the "pretense" of being the submissive wife, and making the husband feel like he was king of the castle, but in reality they were running the show -- they just knew how to make the guy think the decisions were actually his -- (it's a southern thing, I think)
Not that marriage dynamics of a bygone era have anything at all to do with the "lifestyle" thing -- I'm just trying to figure out just how much the "submissive" is really submissive.
And what the heck was that about an "encounter" with ex-girlfriend??? Like...a date??
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In the lifestyle, there is no certain way that a couple follow, it's entirely up to each person to decide what they want in the relationship.

The lifestyle is very similar to a 'vanilla' relationship, in that people meet, talk about their likes and dislikes, and decide together, how to proceed.

A "submissive" usually has much more freedom to make decisions, and decide if he/she wants to follow a certain order/rule, etc. A "slave" usually gives up that right, not all slaves, but some.

In some arrangements, the slave follows every single order, rule and directive, to the letter. No questions are asked. Remember, I'm saying in SOME arrangements. Again, this is decided in the beginning.

And in this lifestyle (as in vanilla also), there are 'some' who take advantage of the "title" Master or Mistress, Dom or Domme. There IS abuse in the lifestyle, under the guise of B/s, but then again, there is that in everyday relationships also.

To answer your questions: Yes, if that's decided, he DOES run the show, he runs everything.

There are also those that 'role play' as you mentioned, and do not carry that over into their everyday life.

About the 'girlfriend' ... that MAY have been something that he wanted, as in wanting her to 'be with' a woman, and watch or participate. Some men in the lifestyle 'own' more than one sub or slave.

HTH .. :)
 
It depends to be honest. Mostly for the lifestyle, being submissive is usually a bedroom thing, but some choose to live the lifestyle 24/7. I happen to know MANY happily married couples who are in the lifestyle. There are people who actually live a lifestyle of a 50's household, which would be more of what you are referring to with your mother where the wife wears dresses, cleans the house, is a stay home mother/wife and always has a nice dinner on the table for him.
From my experience in the lifestyle, being submissive is more of a preference to be told what to do, usually when you have a master (BTW, Sado_steve was listed as a dominant and not a Master), you have to do what he says in order to fulfill his wishes, but you do it in accordance with your own wishes as well. If their relationship was 24/7, it most likely wouldn't be limited to in the bedroom,he may have made her do chores in return for pleasure, but there's ALWAYS A CHOICE and a safe word which should be followed according to the rules of the relationship. She went into the situation knowingly and willingly and from her blogs/pictures and the other things I have seen, looked to me to be pretty content in that relationship. Also, while I have seen some derogatory marks about her appearance, he was interested in bigger girls from what his profile said, not everyone likes a model. On facebook, it looked as though they were a happy couple, hanging out with their families, though I don't claim to have a clue as to what their life was like behind closed doors. I would imagine that a psychology major would recognize any adverse situation and hightail it out of there, but who knows? I still say that even if he somehow forced her to do anything she did, she could have left at any time and sought the help of the authorities.
While it's not really possible to explain all of the dynamics of BDSM, we all have limits, some have hard limits which means things you absolutely would NEVER do, and soft limits which are things you may be coerced into doing. I read somewhere on this thread that there was a contract between them (which I am not sure if it has been confirmed or not), which is something a Master/Mistress should always have. It would list his rules that a submissive to he/she would have to follow while being his/her submissive and it would be a contract for the relationship. While I can not say that they would have followed the usual rules of BDSM, I think that she is using her choice to be submissive to him as an excuse for her actions, which IS NOT acceptable behavior.
When I say encounter, it was a threesome between all of them, may have been broadcast on one of the webcam sites those screen names bring you to. I know she wrote about a couple of times he put her on the webcam sites and one of her status messages indicated she was going to be on the webcam.
 
I hope prosecutors have found those online presence! And her attorney should read up on THOSE instead of POW stuff. Yeah.

God Bless the innocent victims.
 
2Hope4 said:
I hope prosecutors have found those online presence! And her attorney should read up on THOSE instead of POW stuff. Yeah.

God Bless the innocent victims.
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I am certain they have. Any trace of them would have been on the computers in the home and that may also be why they have been removed from the internet. I have been kicking myself for not taking screen shots of her writings (only for my own rebuttal as my rebuttal to any of her testimony won't go anywhere but in my head or on a thread), but I did manage to get a shot of her main page of the profile.

He posted on her page that she forgot "forced bi" as one of her fetishes, so yes, I would say that that was one of his desires to have her be with another woman. That was posted more than a year ago.
 
lern2fli said:
It depends to be honest. Mostly for the lifestyle, being submissive is usually a bedroom thing, but some choose to live the lifestyle 24/7. I happen to know MANY happily married couples who are in the lifestyle. There are people who actually live a lifestyle of a 50's household, which would be more of what you are referring to with your mother where the wife wears dresses, cleans the house, is a stay home mother/wife and always has a nice dinner on the table for him.
From my experience in the lifestyle, being submissive is more of a preference to be told what to do, usually when you have a master (BTW, Sado_steve was listed as a dominant and not a Master), you have to do what he says in order to fulfill his wishes, but you do it in accordance with your own wishes as well. If their relationship was 24/7, it most likely wouldn't be limited to in the bedroom,he may have made her do chores in return for pleasure, but there's ALWAYS A CHOICE and a safe word which should be followed according to the rules of the relationship. She went into the situation knowingly and willingly and from her blogs/pictures and the other things I have seen, looked to me to be pretty content in that relationship. Also, while I have seen some derogatory marks about her appearance, he was interested in bigger girls from what his profile said, not everyone likes a model. On facebook, it looked as though they were a happy couple, hanging out with their families, though I don't claim to have a clue as to what their life was like behind closed doors. I would imagine that a psychology major would recognize any adverse situation and hightail it out of there, but who knows? I still say that even if he somehow forced her to do anything she did, she could have left at any time and sought the help of the authorities.
While it's not really possible to explain all of the dynamics of BDSM, we all have limits, some have hard limits which means things you absolutely would NEVER do, and soft limits which are things you may be coerced into doing. I read somewhere on this thread that there was a contract between them (which I am not sure if it has been confirmed or not), which is something a Master/Mistress should always have. It would list his rules that a submissive to he/she would have to follow while being his/her submissive and it would be a contract for the relationship. While I can not say that they would have followed the usual rules of BDSM, I think that she is using her choice to be submissive to him as an excuse for her actions, which IS NOT acceptable behavior.
When I say encounter, it was a threesome between all of them, may have been broadcast on one of the webcam sites those screen names bring you to. I know she wrote about a couple of times he put her on the webcam sites and one of her status messages indicated she was going to be on the webcam.
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And "most" subs and slaves, list their 'hard limits' as:

No children - Nothing Illegal - etc.

So her 'sub or slave' status does NOT give her an excuse for her part in this! That's when she passed the limit of the lifestyle and plain common sense!
 
OK, so in this "lifestyle" what's the difference between a "dom" and a "master"? Does the master have total control, while a dom merely dominates -- but the "submissive" still has choices?
What I'm hearing is that SH called himself a "dom" and NV called herself a "submissive" -- at least online? So...unless the dynamics of the relationship changed (would that be likely?), then there really wasn't this "master-slave" relationship the lawyer is describing.
And...ok...so this lifestyle...there's obviously abuse involved between the couple...I suppose that would be inherent when one dates a sadist.
But...with this whole lifestyle...isn't there a point where someone just puts on the brakes and refuses to do something...like really...could one really be forced to participate in the kidnapping and abuse of innocent children?
 
Ambien is a sleeping pill for insomnia. Unless things have changed, it wasn't available in injectible form. People have been known to do strange things while taking it, and not remembering.
 
Abigail said:
OK, so in this "lifestyle" what's the difference between a "dom" and a "master"? Does the master have total control, while a dom merely dominates -- but the "submissive" still has choices?
What I'm hearing is that SH called himself a "dom" and NV called herself a "submissive" -- at least online? So...unless the dynamics of the relationship changed (would that be likely?), then there really wasn't this "master-slave" relationship the lawyer is describing.
And...ok...so this lifestyle...there's obviously abuse involved between the couple...I suppose that would be inherent when one dates a sadist.
But...with this whole lifestyle...isn't there a point where someone just puts on the brakes and refuses to do something...like really...could one really be forced to participate in the kidnapping and abuse of innocent children?
Click to expand...

A Master is technically someone who has been trained on how to be a "master of dominance" which usually would mean he would have started out as a submissive to another person who was trained in the lifestyle and then worked his way up to becoming a master of his skills. A Master would basically be a dom that has more experience in the lifestyle and he himself has been trained prior to just claiming his dominance over another. Everyone should still have choices. In this situation, it's more general knowledge to say "Master/slave" than "dominant/submissive" , though they are somewhat the same in the dynamics of it. Also, with the whole 50 Shades of Crap books and movie, it's more of a new household word to be MASTER, which I am betting is why the whole situation is even being brought to light. Good timing on that one.

The choice of being submissive to a sadist is that you like to be abused, you would be a masochist. I supposed anyone could be forced to do anything, depending on the circumstances, but MOST people would be able to put the brakes on and say no and leave, unless it was your desire to complete the act, especially someone who studied rape and psychology. Did that answer your questions?
 
Abigail said:
OK, so in this "lifestyle" what's the difference between a "dom" and a "master"? Does the master have total control, while a dom merely dominates -- but the "submissive" still has choices?
What I'm hearing is that SH called himself a "dom" and NV called herself a "submissive" -- at least online? So...unless the dynamics of the relationship changed (would that be likely?), then there really wasn't this "master-slave" relationship the lawyer is describing.
And...ok...so this lifestyle...there's obviously abuse involved between the couple...I suppose that would be inherent when one dates a sadist.
But...with this whole lifestyle...isn't there a point where someone just puts on the brakes and refuses to do something...like really...could one really be forced to participate in the kidnapping and abuse of innocent children?
Click to expand...

A person (sub or slave) ALWAYS has the choice to leave, to say NO, that's reality.

She COULD have said NO ....

A Dom is a male Dominant (a man who is dominant, either just in the bedroom or 24/7).

Some Doms call themselves a Master, some do not use that title. Only they know exactly what their dynamics were ... as it's different for every couple.

There are also "Tops" who usually just 'top' in a relationship, or encounter, and that's where it ends, they aren't involved in a 24/7 arrangement.

There is nothing legal he could have done, to force her to obey him. NOTHING! The choices she made, were her own.

Some subs/slaves fall deeply in love with their Doms/Masters, as in vanilla life, and can't leave, as their heart is in it too deeply. All though I suspect she may have had her own fantasies that she wanted to fulfill also. That's JMO of course.

And yes, a Dom/sub relationship can go deeper with time, into a Master/slave arrangement.
 
Just as aside, my browser refuses to switch off "safe mode" to locate Sado_anyone, let alone Steve. I think my browser is winking to fellow mothers and saying "she doesn't need to see this, seriously".

I know of the Noelle Paquette case only because she's local but I'm wondering, since I've seen references to it here, were the perps who took her away also involved in the same stuff, or was it different? I didn't follow it here so I don't know.
 
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