NY NY - Ellery, Rte 17, WhtFem 30-37, UP15489 193UFNY, GSW, poss from Canada or Europe, note, clothes, Dec'83

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and what about the story of this lovely lady...the time-line is off....but she could have travelled abroad in the meantime. The age is also off...but I do see some things in the story (location, money, troubled relations) And also something about the nose.... and also leaving for children behind...hm

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/scrima_jeanne.html
 
and what about the story of this lovely lady...the time-line is off....but she could have travelled abroad in the meantime. The age is also off...but I do see some things in the story (location, money, troubled relations) And also something about the nose.... and also leaving for children behind...hm

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/scrima_jeanne.html

Can't be. Really.

Because our UID had only one child, and many years before. This MP had four children. For this very reason, I think that we are way way off.

ETA : also, the UID is from a wealthy background based on her clothes. She traveled a lot and had extensive dental work of European origin. The MP is from a working class background and didn't have such extensive dental work of European origin. Key elements disproving a match.
If she had a IUD, it couldn't be the one of our UID because the one used by our UID was not used in the US. So, our UID isn't from the USA, for sure. Concentrate on Canadian and European females. I would also broaden the age field because age estimations are more often than not inaccurate in adults.
 
Can't be. Really.

Because our UID had only one child, and many years before. This MP had four children. For this very reason, I think that we are way way off.

ETA : also, the UID is from a wealthy background based on her clothes. She traveled a lot and had extensive dental work of European origin. The MP is from a working class background and didn't have such extensive dental work of European origin. Key elements disproving a match.
If she had a IUD, it couldn't be the one of our UID because the one used by our UID was not used in the US. So, our UID isn't from the USA, for sure. Concentrate on Canadian and European females. I would also broaden the age field because age estimations are more often than not inaccurate in adults.

According to an anthropologist UID had at least one child 15 years priorto her death. Wich means that she could have had more children. And about the background and clothing: things are not alsways what they look to be. I mean the way people are dressed is not always who they are. About the MP I read she owned property wich she wanted to sell after her divorce and buy a restaurant, she stayed in the Hilton (a very expensive hotel) but maybe her lover paid for it.. What if she went to Canada or Europe in the years between, fed up with her troubled mariage....hard to beleave you're leaving your kids behind, but that happenes all the time. I agree that we should focus on Canada/Europe, but we should not close our eyes for other possibilities. MP is probaply killed in the year she went missing.
 
According to an anthropologist UID had at least one child 15 years priorto her death. Wich means that she could have had more children. And about the background and clothing: things are not alsways what they look to be. I mean the way people are dressed is not always who they are. About the MP I read she owned property wich she wanted to sell after her divorce and buy a restaurant, she stayed in the Hilton (a very expensive hotel) but maybe her lover paid for it..

The bolded part is the likeliest..


What if she went to Canada or Europe in the years between, fed up with her troubled mariage...
The detail that doesn't fit your narrative at all is the IUD. I really really doubt she would had crossed the border to get an IUD, or got one while traveling in Europe. Especially at her age, when ob/gyn did put IUD. This detail makes your whole hypothesis way off. She probably got it months, maybe years before she went missing, as you could keep a copper IUD for 5 years in those days (now 10 years with the newer ones).
Without the IUD, your hypothesis would had been very likely. The devil lies within details.

.hard to beleave you're leaving your kids behind, but that happenes all the time.
This point about your narrative doesn't bother me too much because yes it happens.
There are other elements which are far more unlikely, at least the IUD. I know that I'm a bit obsessional with the IUD in this case, but for me, it's the key detail for making or breaking a match in this UID woman. The IUD aspect is what makes me convinced of your match being impossible in the #1 list of unlikely for a match. If we take away all the elements, we still have the IUD and we can't turn this detail around no matter the angle we look at it.

I agree that we should focus on Canada/Europe,
Canada is also very likely because Québec and NY are very close. Problem is that having info about MP in Québec is much easier said than done, privacy laws are stricter than in US.

but we should not close our eyes for other possibilities. MP is probaply killed in the year she went missing.
I agree on opening our eyes. But we have to keep in mind the IUD detail, because it what makes or breaks a match in our case. Yes yes, the IUD is my obsession in this case and I repeat myself about it. Sorry for being quite obsessional with it so being a real bore.
I would say that UID was killed in the hours, maybe days, after she went missing.
 
IMO, the IUD makes your match unlikely for medical reasons.

1) You plan fitting or changing the IUD before or after traveling. This way, you are in peace of mind about that

2) you remove/change the IUD while traveling when you suffer from complications or plan to ttc. Medical complications from the IUD would had been noticed by the ME during the autopsy and would had been documented. No hint of complication from the IUD in the report. And she couldn't had got a Mirena IUD or IUD with progestogen because the first IUD with progestogen was FDA-approved only in 2000, under the brand name Mirena (same brand name in France at least).
Because unless our MP would had been multilingual, finding an ob/gyn, making an appt, getting a prescription before the actual fitting is not as straightforward as, say, going to the supermarket for a yoghurt. It's not a major medical procedure but still, you need to locate the specialist, buy the IUD to the pharmacy before the actual fitting.
Fitting an IUD abroad is quite a hassle you avoid when you don't suffer from sudden complications when abroad.
Why would a MP had changed her IUD abroad when she didn't medically need it ? It doesn't absolutely make sense.


At least we know that she did not want to have another child :)
Excellent point !
 
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases-int/1011dfita.html

The Doe Network:

Case File 1011DFITA

1011DFITA.jpg
1011DFITA1.jpg

Cristina Golinucci
Missing since September 1, 1992 from Cesena, Italy.
Classification: Missing

Vital Statistics

  • [*]Date Of Birth: 1970
    [*]Age at Time of Disappearance: 22 years old
    [*]Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'5" (165 cm.)
  • Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; blue eyes.

Circumstances of Disappearance
On September 1, 1992 Cristina Golinucci disappeared after getting out to the Monastery of Capuchin Friars in Cesena where her confessor and spiritual father, Father Lino, was waiting for her. Golinucci's blue Fiat Cinquecento was found in front of the Monastery. The next day, Golinucci's mother went to the Monastery to talk to Father Lino, who told her that he hadn't waited for Golinucci's outside, and so he saw nothing.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Chi l'ha visto?
E-Mai

l
Source Information:
Chi l'ha visto?


Others info e news traslation from Chi l'ha visto? italian site

The September 1, 1992 Cristina Golinucci disappears after being out of the house to go to the Capuchin fathers of Cesena where he had an appointment with his confessor and spiritual director, Father Lino. In front of the Convent he is only found his blue Fiat Cinquecento. Cristina's mother, the next day, goes to the convent to talk with Father Lino who tells Cristina that he had waited outside the gate and then he did not see anything. On September 3 by Cristina family return to the convent with a dog, hoping to help them find something; but Father Lino does not allow them to enter. The case of Cristina no longer speak until, in late May of 1995, "Chi l'ha visto?" It collects the shocking testimony of a young woman attacked and raped, the previous June, in an area not far from where it disappeared Cristina. To this violence he is stopped an immigrant, Emanuel Boke that all 'era of the disappearance of Cristina, was a guest of their Convent of Cesena Capuchin Fathers, where he worked as a bricklayer. After the airing of this important witness was born on suspicion of a possible link between the presence of Boke in the Convent and the disappearance of Cristina. The Forlì PM has opened an investigation on Boke.

June 8, 1999 Emanuel Boke had confessed to Father Lino to have killed and made to disappear Cristina Golinucci. Father Lino, as is clear from the minutes, reported the fact to the Police a year later. It 'came to light only today but magistrates and investigators came to know four years ago and, when months later informed them, invited parents to keep it a secret so as not to hinder further investigation. Boke, a native of Ghana, had been a guest of the Convent of the Cappuccini of Cesena for about three years, and there was also the day of Cristina's death. The interview with Father Lino had been held in prison, where the immigrant was serving a five-year sentence for the rape of a woman. Boke later denied his confession, and further investigation had no results. So in June of '98 he was released from prison. The Cristina's parents and older sister have had a meeting with him in which he was asked, before you lose track of him, at least to indicate the place where to find the body of the missing girl. Vain.

January 28, 2011 Not the most sophisticated tools available to investigators, such as ground penetrating radar, to solve the murder of the death of Cristina Golinucci, the twenty-Cesena disappeared on September 1 '92 in the parking lot of a Capuchin monastery are served. After more than eight months of new findings, made in May and July 2010, also inside the convent and nearby areas in search of some sign, but to no avail.
 
Romulus did the translation of the file. I will send it to you throught personal email if I now how...soon....Grazie Romulus!!!
 
I did send the translated file to Giucy so he/she can push it trough to the Italien contacts. Working together...nice....hope we going to know more..
 
Thanks Romulus for the translation.

Sorry for my absence. It was a crazy busy week, and I also desperately needed to sleep.


I've just sent the translation to Penelope Italia right now. They have a convention at Bologna.
Romulus, that's a sort of coincidence you've brought up Cristina Golinucci because I've just sent the translation to Ms Golinucci herself this morning.
And what also disproves the match is the appointment with Padre Lino the morning she disappeared. I doubt she'd been in the US to be found dead. And as she didn't have children, she couldn't have an IUD because doctors refused categorically to fit IUD in childless women under the excuse of "infection risk" (actually, this BS had already been debunked in the 70', but obgyn are misogynistic conservative IME and IMO. So, never follow blindly their advice about birth control, it's full of unscientific conservative misogynistic BS for forcing their own values upon their patients. Patients' best interests, my foot !)
 
I think who this woman if is italian maybe is a descendent of italian family travel in USA or Canada with Italian Diaspora

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_diaspora#The_Americas

How do you explain the IUD made in Europe then ?
Possible she lived in Canada, but keep in mind that this specific IUD was not used in the US in those days.
Unless she crossed the border for fitting the IUD to hide from her husband as a possible motive. But it's so far-fetched that it seems implausible IMO.
 
Ok, I also sent the translation to Ms Loconsole, from Penelope Italia in Abruzzo.

She wishes to send her warmest thanks to Romulus for the hard work. (translation in Italian for Romulus : Romulus, la signora Loconsole ti manda i suoi più caldi ringraziamenti per il tuo lavoro di traduzione, te ne è molto grata del tuo lavoro).

I asked Penelope to credit the translation to Romulus, member of Websleuths. Admin, mods, is it ok ?

I'd like to ask admin and mods if it's possible to put the DN page's translation on this thread in different languages. It'll help disseminate the info in different countries.
This idea was suggested by Ms Loconsole this morning right now. IMO, it's a very good idea I didn't think about.
 
How do you explain the IUD made in Europe then?

I hypothesize, chances are that her or someone in her family often returned to Italy perhaps to visit relatives and have bought clothes (produced in Carpi) and the spiral? it is also possible that she has been in Italy only as a tourist and have bought clothes and spiral them, so maybe not necessarily she is Italian; now anyway better control the database of missing persons in Italy and see if it is some possible profile compatible with this unknown woman.
 
I hypothesize, chances are that her or someone in her family often returned to Italy perhaps to visit relatives and have bought clothes (produced in Carpi) and the spiral? it is also possible that she has been in Italy only as a tourist and have bought clothes and spiral them, so maybe not necessarily she is Italian; now anyway better control the database of missing persons in Italy and see if it is some possible profile compatible with this unknown woman.
There is a problem with the IUD. The problem is that IUD is available only with a valid prescription from a physician, and had to be fitted by a physician.
So, you don't buy an IUD (intra uterine device, the EN word for la spirale) like you'd buy the OTC cough syrup or some tachipirina (the Italian Tylenol).
And for fitting it, you need an appointment with a physician.
As I said before, unless you suffer from unexpected medical complications, you don't fit your IUD while travelling abroad.
The problem with the tourist buying the IUD is that medical tourism is for medical care you can't get at home. IUD, especially at her age and previous birth(s), was widespread in America. And why would had she bought her IUD while travelling in Europe, with her American prescription, to get fitted by her physician at home ? Again, what's the point of such an expensive hassle ?
 
Ok, I also sent the translation to Ms Loconsole, from Penelope Italia in Abruzzo.

She wishes to send her warmest thanks to Romulus for the hard work. (translation in Italian for Romulus : Romulus, la signora Loconsole ti manda i suoi più caldi ringraziamenti per il tuo lavoro di traduzione, te ne è molto grata del tuo lavoro).

I asked Penelope to credit the translation to Romulus, member of Websleuths. Admin, mods, is it ok ?

I'd like to ask admin and mods if it's possible to put the DN page's translation on this thread in different languages. It'll help disseminate the info in different countries.
This idea was suggested by Ms Loconsole this morning right now. IMO, it's a very good idea I didn't think about.

Great job! I'm not in for the credits but for helping so all credits to Romulus and you. Good suggestions.
 

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