NY - Ex-President Donald Trump, charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023, Trial 25 Mar 2024 #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
RANCH said:
I think this case should be dismissed but if it isn't I think there's a chance for a conviction by a Manhattan jury.

Afterwards the conviction will be overturned on appeal. JMO.
Click to expand...
I’ve heard legal experts say that as well.

The iffy legal precedents here are unlikely to stand on appeal.

The other thing is that Trump isn’t due back in court until December. He didn’t insist on a speedy trial but most don’t so that’s not unusual.
 
Missing Susan said:
Calling what cohen did a campaign donation is a huge leap. It is much more in the line of a campaign loan if we are forced to view it as something something other than an lawyer/client transaction.. How is it a donation if it is invoiced and reimbursed?
Click to expand...

Campaign donations are defined by Federal law (state laws have election law too).

Hush-payments intended to influence election outcomes are campaign donations - by the letter of the federal law, and in this case, by specific statutes within the NY State Election law and the NY State Penal Code.

IMO, There's no "leaping" with the Cohen payments.
Election hush-money payment is a crime per statuatory law; it is what it is.
It's illegal, per both Federal and NY State election law (and the NY State Penal Code)

Campaign finance reporting is overseen by the FEC - federal agency. In-kind campaign donations must be reported. If you're running and your favorite corner downtown printer offers you free campaign messaging lawn signs as a show of support, your printer has made an in-kind donation. He donates materials and time in his efforts to provide a service that is intended to influence election outcome. He needs to accurately report these donations on his tax returns; you need to do the same as on your campaign finance reports. Both parties responsible that the donation-in-kind does not surpass campaign donation limits.

Substitute hush-money agent (Cohen) for the printer in the above example. It's an in-kind donation, and it's not like this hasn't been adjudicated already.

Beyond the Federal law, the hush-money payment - is a misdemeanor per NY state election law misdemeanor. Covering it up, the the cover-up (false records) becomes a felony (as the NYS statutes provides). Falsifying business records with intent to cover an illegal activity is a felony.

MOO
 
everybodhi said:
If the NY law were not in place a two term POTUS could shoot someone on 5th Ave. within that 5 year window and never be charged with murder since there is also the argument the sitting Presidents cannot be criminally charged.
Edited to add I just realized murder has no SOL so substitute any other crime
Click to expand...

RANCH said:
That's an extreme hypothetical that I doubt the creators of the NY law had in mind when they wrote it.

I think it was mainly designed for people who fled the state to avoid prosecution. At least that makes the most sense. Which doesn't fit this case at all .

If this case doesn't get dismissed we may see this question resolved during an appeal. JMO.
Click to expand...

IMO we can’t presume what the creators of NY State law had in mind, but here is a link to the history of NY law.

Major points are that it was founded in the 17th century based on English Common Law, with substantial changes in the 19th century as NY became a more populous and important state.

Most of the US, particularly older states that were English colonies, were and still are deeply rooted in English Common Law.

Recalling that Aaron Burr was the US Vice-President when he killed Alexander Hamilton in 1804, IMO the founders lived in a world where a top US official shooting someone on 5th Ave was much LESS far-fetched to them than we would imagine today. With due punishment to follow, Trump’s boast notwithstanding.

All lawmakers in America are US citizens and should be held to the same standard as you and me. Trump broke the law. Many laws, most more consequential than this one. This case may be just a splinter, but a tree trunk is going to topple.

IMO

History | NYCOURTS.GOV

THE EVOLUTION OF THE COURT The New York State Supreme Court was established in 1691, making it one of the oldest continuing courts of general jurisdiction in the United States. Pursuant to legislation adopted by the New York Assembly, the court, originally known as the Supreme Court of...
ww2.nycourts.gov ww2.nycourts.gov
 
Last edited:
As we learned in the Jan 6 investigation, congressional subpoenas can be ignored, Jim Jordon himself ignored them.

House G.O.P. Subpoenas Former Manhattan Prosecutor in Move to Defend Trump

Mr. Pomerantz did not immediately respond to a request for comment. But he previously told the Judiciary Committee he would not be providing documents or testimony to the panel, citing instructions from the district attorney’s office.

In a statement, the New York district attorney’s office chastised Mr. Jordan, accusing him of attempting to interfere in a criminal case.

“The House G.O.P. continues to attempt to undermine an active investigation and ongoing New York criminal case with an unprecedented campaign of harassment and intimidation,” the statement said. “Repeated efforts to weaken state and local law enforcement actions are an abuse of power and will not deter us from our duty to uphold the law.”
 
SouthAussie said:
I think DA Bragg knows the law and what can be prosecuted. Whether the trial judge agrees with him or not is yet to be seen.

Just as a little background, DA Bragg has worked as both a state and a federal prosecutor. He is a Harvard graduate. He was overwhelmingly elected to his current position, being one of only 4 people elected to this office in 80 years.

One of his long-term specialties is white collar crime ...


"He secured a 6-count indictment against Stephen K. Bannon and WeBuildTheWall, Inc., a Florida-based not-for-profit corporation, on charges including money laundering, conspiracy, and scheme to defraud in connection with a year-long fundraising scheme that netted more than $15 million from thousands of donors across the country based on false promises."

"He also secured the conviction of Trump Organization Chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg on 15 felony counts in connection with a long-running tax evasion scheme."

"He launched a dedicated Housing and Tenant Protection Unit to investigate and prosecute landlords and developers who engage in systemic fraud and tenant harassment. And he is committed to prosecute employers who steal wages and endanger workers."

manhattanda.org

About the Office

One Standard of Justice for All
manhattanda.org manhattanda.org
Click to expand...
Thank you for this ... and ...

:eek: oh my, no wonder the Defendant despises this DA with a passionate vengeance.
he eats fraud - of all flavors, federal and state - for breakfast. just MOO

... harlem
... harvard
... harvard law
... state prosecutor
... federal prosecutor
... bannon
... weisselberg
... trump org
... weinstein (harvey)
... weinstein company
... fraudulent developers
... white collar crime

The idea that Bragg would approve briefs with state charges that won't hold b/c federal ... that he's not an expert on SOL rules ... that he doesn't have a grip on why the Feds were "Barr"-ed from bringing this case ... is not supported by this resume.

Who is Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney overseeing case against Trump?
 
Last edited:
Trump’s Charges Bring Doubts, Hopes and Uncertainty in Both Parties


Even conservative evangelical leaders who might be expected to look askance at the extramarital dalliances contained in the allegations were supportive, continuing a pattern of overlooking Mr. Trump’s personal conduct that dates back most prominently to their response to the “Access Hollywood” tape in 2016. Ms. Daniels said she had sex with Mr. Trump in California in 2006, as his wife, Melania Trump, was home caring for their baby, Barron, in New York.

“This has already been litigated by evangelicals in 2016 and 2020,” said the Rev. Robert Jeffress, the pastor of a Texas megachurch, who delivered an opening prayer at Mr. Trump’s campaign rally in Waco last month. “And I don’t think evangelicals want to re-litigate it.”

Asked whether he believed Mr. Trump’s denials about having a sexual encounter with Ms. Daniels, Mr. Jeffress said that was not his judgment to make: “That’s really between him, Stormy Daniels and God.”
 
APR 6, 2023
www.theguardian.com

New York judge in Trump arraignment reportedly receives ‘dozens’ of threats

Threatening calls, emails and letters to Juan Merchan and his family come following arrest of ex-president in hush money case
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Citing two sources familiar with the matter, NBC said the threats, like those recently directed towards the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin Bragg, and other officials, had come in the form of calls, emails and letters.

In addition to increased security surrounding Merchan and the court, New York police were providing “extra security to all affected staff members”, NBC said. Biographies of employees at Bragg’s office had been removed from the district attorney’s website.

The New York Daily News also reported threats to Merchan and his family, a source telling the paper “the content of the calls, emails and letters was … harassing and defamatory, with most of the trolls calling from out of state”.
 
PommyMommy said:
APR 6, 2023
www.theguardian.com

New York judge in Trump arraignment reportedly receives ‘dozens’ of threats

Threatening calls, emails and letters to Juan Merchan and his family come following arrest of ex-president in hush money case
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Citing two sources familiar with the matter, NBC said the threats, like those recently directed towards the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin Bragg, and other officials, had come in the form of calls, emails and letters.

In addition to increased security surrounding Merchan and the court, New York police were providing “extra security to all affected staff members”, NBC said. Biographies of employees at Bragg’s office had been removed from the district attorney’s website.

The New York Daily News also reported threats to Merchan and his family, a source telling the paper “the content of the calls, emails and letters was … harassing and defamatory, with most of the trolls calling from out of state”.
Click to expand...
I sure hope they investigate and prosecute those who are making the threats.
 
kaen said:
Agreed. Though my fear is that they will be held out by Mr. Trump and others as heroes. It makes me sad to have to write that. JMHO.
Click to expand...
I think Trump is digging a mighty big hole for himself. The Special Counsel investigating the classified documents and Jan. 6 has subpoenaed Secret Service agents to testify before the Grand Jury in D.C. It sounds like it is really heating up and could result in much worse charges than the NY indictment. No wonder Trump is ranting about defunding the DOJ.

www.cbsnews.com

Secret Service officials to testify before grand jury in Trump documents probe, source says

The grand jury proceedings are part of special counsel Jack Smith's investigation into the Mar-a-Lago search.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
 
Emma Peel said:
Thank you for this ... and ...

:eek: oh my, no wonder the Defendant despises this DA with a passionate vengeance.
he eats fraud - of all flavors, federal and state - for breakfast. just MOO

... harlem
... harvard
... harvard law
... state prosecutor
... federal prosecutor
... bannon
... weisselberg
... trump org
... weinstein (harvey)
... weinstein company
... fraudulent developers
... white collar crime

The idea that Bragg would approve briefs with state charges that won't hold b/c federal ... that he's not an expert on SOL rules ... that he doesn't have a grip on why the Feds were "Barr"-ed from bringing this case ... is not supported by this resume.

Who is Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney overseeing case against Trump?
Click to expand...
His ideas on being tough on crime are for “those people”, not white collar criminals.
A justice system with very different standards for different people.

Trump says getting tough on crime is No. 1 issue | Fox Business

"It’s a disgrace what’s going on in New York and other places," he told Bartiromo.
He went on to stress that "you have to get tough on crime" and that it is his "number one thing now."
"You have to stop it," Trump added, noting that sentencing criminals and getting rid of cashless bail are important steps in tackling the crime spike.

Trump’s Recent Calls to Execute Drug Traffickers Should Be a Wake-Up Call to the Biden Administration

“The penalties should be very, very severe. If you look at countries throughout the world, the ones that don’t have a drug problem are ones that institute a very quick trial death penalty sentence for drug dealers,” Trump said at the America First Policy Institute. “It sounds horrible, doesn’t it?” Trump asked, “But you know what? That’s the ones that don’t have any problem. It doesn’t take 15 years in court. It goes quickly.”
 
WELCOME TO YOUR TWITTER LAW SCHOOL TUTOR
tweet thread lays how the Bragg Indictment works - via Twitter, see the twitter unrolled reader app link here:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1644006333279027200.html

How do you get a false business filing to be a felony and not a misdemeanor? If it is intended to further or cover up another crime.
Issues:
- need the other crime be a felony? NO
- need the state charge and prove the other crime? NO

1/many
- need the state only prove the defendant intended the other crime? YES
- need the other crime be a NY state crime? UNCLEAR- to be litigated
- Are there many possible other crimes that seem to fit? YES
-Other crime possibility #1:
2/many
- the second false filing (claiming falsely legal expense) furthered the scheme and covered up the first false filing, and so on, till you get to 34
- state tax offense: Cohen tax filing which would be falsely stating income; falsity can be over or understating income
3/many
- state tax offense: Trump Org tax filing would falsely deduct legal expense as natural consequence of scheme; if it ultimately did NOT so deduct, that is strong proof that the "legal expense" label was false. And someone had to have known that to not claim that deduction.
4/many
- AMI false business filing
- And finally, the two much ink has been spilled over: state and federal election and campaign violations, which have various much-discussed legal challenges.

The end.
Click to expand...

by ANDREW WEISSMANN
at NYU teaching Law
was at: Mueller's Special Counsel office
20 years DOJ
10 years Defense Counsel
Lifelong NY resident
NYTimes bestseller: Where Law Ends: Inside the Mueller Investigation
Frequent Legal Analyst TV
 
RANCH said:
www.foxnews.com

Stormy Daniels says Trump doesn't deserve jail time on hush money charges

Stormy Daniels doesn’t believe former President Donald Trump deserves jail time in connection with hush money payments she received leading up to the 2016 presidential election.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
Click to expand...

From my understanding, with the fact pattern in this case, the courts generally agree with Daniels. If convicted, he would be unlikely to have to serve time, or maybe get a suspended sentence.

Although, Trump is more than capable of bringing jail time on himself through contempt of court or the like through the process.
 
Emma Peel said:
Campaign donations are defined by Federal law (state laws have election law too).

Hush-payments intended to influence election outcomes are campaign donations - by the letter of the federal law, and in this case, by specific statutes within the NY State Election law and the NY State Penal Code.

IMO, There's no "leaping" with the Cohen payments.
Election hush-money payment is a crime per statuatory law; it is what it is.
It's illegal, per both Federal and NY State election law (and the NY State Penal Code)

Campaign finance reporting is overseen by the FEC - federal agency. In-kind campaign donations must be reported. If you're running and your favorite corner downtown printer offers you free campaign messaging lawn signs as a show of support, your printer has made an in-kind donation. He donates materials and time in his efforts to provide a service that is intended to influence election outcome. He needs to accurately report these donations on his tax returns; you need to do the same as on your campaign finance reports. Both parties responsible that the donation-in-kind does not surpass campaign donation limits.

Substitute hush-money agent (Cohen) for the printer in the above example. It's an in-kind donation, and it's not like this hasn't been adjudicated already.

Beyond the Federal law, the hush-money payment - is a misdemeanor per NY state election law misdemeanor. Covering it up, the the cover-up (false records) becomes a felony (as the NYS statutes provides). Falsifying business records with intent to cover an illegal activity is a felony.

MOO
Click to expand...
If your hypothetical printer then bills the campaign and gets paid, it wasn't a donation, right?

Another hypothetical leading to one felony indictment under these NY/FEC law?:

Some pundit mocks trumps hair before the election. A stylist makes trump a new wig for his last tv appearance before the election. The wig fools some voters into thinking trump hasnt lost his hair.

A lawyer draws up a NDA with the stylist regarding trump follicular activity and pays him $3000 over and above the fair market value of a tangerine toupee. Lawyer has previously discussed with other advisors an overall scheme to conceal trumps physical ugliness from the voters.

Lawyer pays stylist at time of service and bills trump after election. Some one enters the repayment transaction in the business records as anything except "hush money and one orange-ish wig".
 
Missing Susan said:
If your hypothetical printer then bills the campaign and gets paid, it wasn't a donation, right?

Another hypothetical leading to one felony indictment under these NY/FEC law?:

Some pundit mocks trumps hair before the election. A stylist makes trump a new wig for his last tv appearance before the election. The wig fools some voters into thinking trump hasnt lost his hair.

A lawyer draws up a NDA with the stylist regarding trump follicular activity and pays him $3000 over and above the fair market value of a tangerine toupee. Lawyer has previously discussed with other advisors an overall scheme to conceal trumps physical ugliness from the voters.

Lawyer pays stylist at time of service and bills trump after election. Some one enters the repayment transaction in the business records as anything except "hush money and one orange-ish wig".
Click to expand...

dude.

It's a wig? Not even real?

That's got to be a felony.
 
Last edited:
Short Version. We need donations to pay for the server and other bills. Please use one of the following cash apps.
Please use PayPal Pay Websleuths.com, LLC using PayPal.Me
If the PayPal link does not work for you go to www.paypal.com and put in the email websleuths.com@gmail.com and you can send a donation that way.
Venmo name is Tricia-Griffith-14
OR
Cash App $tgrif14

If you can donate we would be so grateful

Hi Everyone,
(PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS DONATIONS ON THIS THREAD. CLICK HERE FOR DISCUSSION)
Websleuths is very expensive to run. Most months we make enough to pay for the server, pay the IT guy, and a bit of money left over for me for some bills or food. This way I can keep Websleuths free for everyone.
There are months when this is not the case.
I recently pre-paid the server fee and almost all I owed our IT guy. I knew the money coming in for the month from advertising would not cover the bills but I thought I had another revenue stream coming in so I wasn't worried. That revenue stream didn't happen.

Basically, I need donations to cover the server and what I owe the IT and a bit extra for my groceries.

I have provided Websleuths free for almost 20 years (since 2004) and will do my best to keep Websleuths free for members and visitors.

This month we need 2700 dollars to keep Websleuths running. I don't know what next month's ad dollars will be. Hopefully, you won't be hearing from me.

Let me stress if you cannot afford a donation please do not send anything. I understand times are hard.

When we reach our goal I will announce it and stop accepting donations. It is urgent however that we raise the money as fast as possible.

Please use PayPal Pay Websleuths.com, LLC using PayPal.Me
If the PayPal link does not work for you go to www.paypal.com and put in the email websleuths.com@gmail.com and you can send a donation that way.
Venmo name is Tricia-Griffith-14
OR
Cash App $tgrif14
Thank you everyone for your help.
Tricia
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 57 more.
Total: 1,822 (members: 58, guests: 1,764)

Online statistics

Members online
58
Guests online
1,764
Total visitors
1,822
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
602,490
Messages
18,141,158
Members
231,409
Latest member
relaxininaz
Back
Top