Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 8

[JTKirk]

I wondered last night if Jennifer had contacted a divorce attorney. Does attorney-client privilege prevent them from talking to LE if their client goes missing or is killed?

Great question. As soon as I saw it, I texted my close friend who is an attorney in New York State. His response: "It's a gray area. Too long to explain over text."

He's currently sitting in court awaiting his case to be called so I'm not able to speak with him right now, but suffice it to say, doesn't look like it would be as easy for a potential divorce attorney to go to LE to advise what occured.

 

[Caring4Many]

In watching the video, it was interesting where the phone was as it was by a stream? Am I remembering correctly?

Maybe Jillian would know which side of the road the phone was found on?

I know much has been discussed on the phone......it would seem very very odd for the phone to not respond or show last known location for over 12 hours prior to it (finally) showing it's location at 8am the next day. Why would it not have responded up to that point?

Question....does the Find a phone app have a history to show searching attempts? I mean maybe there was something going on with towers or geography and since GR was in a different location that it responded...would that make a difference?

Not within the app-at least not on the iPhone that I've seen. I'd imagine once the forensics on the phone were/are obtained you'd have that info. Jmo though.

 

[Foxfire]

I still think the phone was tossed after Jen was left (assuming these events occurred on the same day). Since she was found farthest from the van, with the phone in between I think it happened on the way to drop off the van. I just don't see a nervous perp tossing evidence while transporting a victim.

I do think there is ambiguity as to when she was placed at the location where she was found and when the van was left in the parking lot as it was not noticed right away there by residents and the body was not noticed sooner and/or was not out in the elements for 2 months. The crime either happened in a very short time frame or was spread out with her body being moved and the van being left a day or so after she dissapeared. There are too many scenarios in my head to make a judgement. I hope LE has a better handle on the timeline than we do.

Bettylou4you, imo, the cell phone, van, and remains were all disposed of in the locations where found, within a one hour window of opportunity on 12/11/2012. To be seen in her van or transport her remains would have been too risky..
JMO, and JMO only.. After following mostly predators/serial killer cases for over five years. One thing that I have learned is that they have obvious patterns, strategies, and leave signs and residue...

Imo, Jennifer Ramsaran's case has many indicators that the perp was only attempting to deflect, and emulating a stranger abduction by a sexual predator/serial killer to throw off investigators..

There are many indicators that the perp has many of the same personality traits of a predator/SK, but was lacking in their experience or skills, imo.

Obviously they have psychopathic tendencies due to the lack of empathy or remorse which is indicated by the body dumped like a bag of rubbish.. They would also be narcissistic due to their egotistic & grandiose thinking that they could pull off this ruse, imo..

A dead giveaway in the Jennifer Ramsaran tragedy is how the guilt was attempted to be shifted to the victim by the perp..imo..

Psychopaths have huge egos, are very controlling/manipulative of other's lives to satisfy thir own egos.

Serial Killers/Predators, leave few clues, whereas seriously disturbed perps emulating SKs tend to leave many clues in their wake..

 

[thefox]

RE: Plymouth roads will all cast a spray of thin mud

thefox, the way it was described, the van had an excessive amount of mud on it. Imo, this would indicate that the van was taken on a road other than the local gravel and oil & stoned roads. Just wondering if the center road body disposal site was chosen after another site was unsuccessful..

The spray can get quiet heavy especially with speed. As far as heavy mud it's just not likely that van could get into any areas of heavy mud and still get out.
I've lived and roamed that area for over 50 years and know it well and I just don't see it. Now if I could see a picture of the van when it was recovered it would clear a lot of this up.

 

[JTKirk]

Originally Posted by Tennlyn
I wondered last night if Jennifer had contacted a divorce attorney. Does attorney-client privilege prevent them from talking to LE if their client goes missing or is killed?

Great question. As soon as I saw it, I texted my close friend who is an attorney in New York State. His response: "It's a gray area. Too long to explain over text."

He's currently sitting in court awaiting his case to be called so I'm not able to speak with him right now, but suffice it to say, doesn't look like it would be as easy for a potential divorce attorney to go to LE to advise what occured.

Update: I was able to speak to him on the phone, and basically if LE asked an attorney if JR had visited him, he can answer yes or no. If LE asked specific questions concerning the attorney's conversation with JR, he would not be able to divulge. Either way, he says, the fact that she possibly visited a divorce attorney would not add anything of merit to the current investigation, but could potentially show motive in a trial.

 

[Foxfire]

Seldom are bodies dumped at a site where it is considered an illegal debris/garbage dump site by an experienced sexual predator/serial killer. A primitive campsite; abandoned bldg. etc, is preferred.
A vehicle stopped at these dump sites would draw attention by passerbys, imo. Many municipalities are installing motion cameras at these locations to levy very steep fines on illegal dumping offenders. I live in a very rural area in north GA, which is very similar to the Chenango County, NY area & an Environmental Officer is assigned to investigate these areas due to illegal dumping of hazardous materials, etc.
An experienced sexual predator/SK would never use one of these locations as a body disposal site. Imo, this would indicate an impulsive act by an inexperienced perp..

 

[Foxfire]

Imo, prolly the best metaphor that I have ever heard for circumstantial evidence is;

'If you went to bed last night & there was no snow on the ground, yet woke up with snow on the ground.. It would be reasonable to conclude that it snowed last night..

The circumstantial evidence in the Jennifer Ramsaran case is enormous, imo..

 

[horsenaround60]

In watching the video, it was interesting where the phone was as it was by a stream? Am I remembering correctly?

Maybe Jillian would know which side of the road the phone was found on?

I know much has been discussed on the phone......it would seem very very odd for the phone to not respond or show last known location for over 12 hours prior to it (finally) showing it's location at 8am the next day. Why would it not have responded up to that point?

Question....does the Find a phone app have a history to show searching attempts? I mean maybe there was something going on with towers or geography and since GR was in a different location that it responded...would that make a difference?

I used to drive that way every night cause i lived in Norwich and worked in Cortland. I had a cell phone with me and i know for a fact that not far from where her cell was found, there is a dead zone where there is no service at all! The dead zone starts just about a mile from where the cell was found and goes west on RT 23, all the way to the little town of Cincinnatus. This is due to the signal being blocked by the hills in that area. If by chance, GR called the phone and got no response, it could have been in the van travelling in that area where there is no service and when he finally got a ping, it meant that the phone was brought back into the area where a connection can be made. That would tell me that it is possible that the cellphone was in the van when it was being driven back to Norwich after dropping off the body. Im wondering where she was when she logged into the game chat that morning she disappeared and was it really her that logged into the game or someone posing as her, using her login info? It would be a really big help if we knew what time she logged into that game that morning.

 

[Caring4Many]

I used to drive that way every night cause i lived in Norwich and worked in Cortland. I had a cell phone with me and i know for a fact that not far from where her cell was found, there is a dead zone where there is no service at all! The dead zone starts just about a mile from where the cell was found and goes west on RT 23, all the way to the little town of Cincinnatus. This is due to the signal being blocked by the hills in that area. If by chance, GR called the phone and got no response, it could have been in the van travelling in that area where there is no service and when he finally got a ping, it meant that the phone was brought back into the area where a connection can be made. That would tell me that it is possible that the cellphone was in the van when it was being driven back to Norwich after dropping off the body. Im wondering where she was when she logged into the game chat that morning she disappeared and was it really her that logged into the game or someone posing as her, using her login info? It would be a really big help if we knew what time she logged into that game that morning.

One thing we need to remember is different carriers have different service. Have you watched ORRs video? There is a phone receiving messages through the entire thing....every carriers service is different sadly.

Assuming the perp had the same carrier as you, her phone would have been at that location then not then again as CC/LD stated it pinged while he was with LE. Then had no signal after then did again the next morning? Doesn't quite make sense if it was all in the same area... Phones don't turn themselves on & off & don't move locations on their own either. Of course-he could have had assistance moving it-that is another option.

 

[cluciano63]

I am beginning to worry that a definite cause of death and/or manner of death was not obvious during autopsy. If so, that could be a huge problem.

 

[MissieMt]

One thing we need to remember is different carriers have different service. Have you watched ORRs video? There is a phone receiving messages through the entire thing....every carriers service is different sadly.

Assuming the perp had the same carrier as you, her phone would have been at that location then not then again as CC/LD stated it pinged while he was with LE. Then had no signal after then did again the next morning? Doesn't quite make sense if it was all in the same area... Phones don't turn themselves on & off & don't move locations on their own either. Of course-he could have had assistance moving it-that is another option.

Nope-they sure don't. You need a very blessed and talented rock to assist with that :seeya:

 

[Foxfire]

Nope-they sure don't. You need a very blessed and talented rock to assist with that :seeya:

'Thought that was the AFLAC Duck'....:moo:

 

[WestCoastLady]

There is a phone receiving messages through the entire thing....

RSBM....

O/T - I've been wondering what all the duck quacking was all about - it never even crossed my mind that it would be someone's text notification sound!! And ORR, thank you for the video - as a Native Californian I could have *never* imagined that view...."snow" is not in my vocabulary

 

[MissieMt]

I am beginning to worry that a definite cause of death and/or manner of death was not obvious during autopsy. If so, that could be a huge problem.

I'm not sure if this question has been asked before (forgive me if it has). Do they have to release COD to the general public and/or family during a murder investigation?

 

[MissieMt]

'Thought that was the AFLAC Duck'....:moo:

RSBM....

O/T - I've been wondering what all the duck quacking was all about - it never even crossed my mind that it would be someone's text notification sound!! And ORR, thank you for the video - as a Native Californian I could have *never* imagined that view...."snow" is not in my vocabulary

I think maybe the quacking you heard WestCoastLady, was that duck attacking ORR because he didn't want to be implicated in "the great magical iphone button scandal of 2012"

 

[cluciano63]

I'm not sure if this question has been asked before (forgive me if it has). Do they have to release COD to the general public and/or family during a murder investigation?

No, they are not required to release it to anyone. Not sure if an autopsy report can be obtained via public info act in NY, but probably not during an open investigation. Karen Swift's cause of death has not been released, nor that of the girls in Iowa.

 

[Caring4Many]

RSBM....

O/T - I've been wondering what all the duck quacking was all about - it never even crossed my mind that it would be someone's text notification sound!! And ORR, thank you for the video - as a Native Californian I could have *never* imagined that view...."snow" is not in my vocabulary

Not sure what RSBM is?

I assumed that was why there was discussion if battery & because my son had that ring tone on his before. Of course could very well be a crate of ducks going a long for the ride-after all if a rock can do so much why not see what help a duck can be? Lol

 

[WestCoastLady]

Not sure what RSBM is?

Respectfully snipped by me

 

[CuriousGuy]

Is it a known fact that Jennifer was a practicing Catholic?

If so she probably attended Mass regularly, seeing as though missing a week is considered a venial sin. Did GR and the children attend regularly with her? If not I wonder if she had a " church family" that she confided in...

Also I suspect her priest has an interesting take on her life and death, although we will never hear about that.

Just some rambling thoughts going through my head today.

 

[lovinglife]

Is it a known fact that Jennifer was a practicing Catholic?

If so she probably attended Mass regularly, seeing as though missing a week is considered a venial sin. Did GR and the children attend regularly with her? If not I wonder if she had a " church family" that she confided in...

Also I suspect her priest has an interesting take on her life and death, although we will never hear about that.

Just some rambling thoughts going through my head today.

Not sure that JR was a practicing catholic at the time of her death. I believe I read that she had taught Sunday school in the past. Do our insiders know this? If so, I'm thinking Father Bove would have been contacted by media for a quote. And I should comment that I don't know if Father was or was not contacted. JMO