Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 9

[zwiebel]

ha! I'd heard of bangs but thought they were longer hair that framed the face! Doh.... No wonder I got funny looks when I said I'd had bangs cut into my hair - I'd had the hair round my face layered shorter than the rest but I didn't have a fringe, never have...

That's what I thought they were! Or ringlets. (does anyone in the world still have them?).

 

[zwiebel]

this is an older article, but i hadn't seen it before (thanks londonraine)

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=33m4lts&s=6&fb_source=message

Oh, this is so wonderful. I WISH I could have something like this for Bob. How on earth can it be done?

 

[Pob]

That was one of the many reasons why we all loved to hear from you. You were an online person that she chatted with and she always was talking about her kids with you. What wife that is trying to "meet" someone online talks about their kids...I mean really...she would have created a persona if that was her intention...instead it sounded like she was just communicating about normal family routines....just so silly that the premise that GR and CC were pushing was so off base....hopefully that all works in the favor of justice...because it was very disparaging.

This was also why I joined here as a member not a guest, I read many many bad things spoke about Jenn's character. IMO there is somebody out there needs brought to justice ...

 

[BearAngel]

You are priceless!!!

Special thanks goes to the volunteer who let you experiment with placing him/her in a van of approximate size.:tyou:

I was thinking...in our van, where you open the sliding door behind the front passenger seat...the middle bench seats are just for 2 people (and the back for 3) -- so that you can sort of scrunch around to the back. Anyway...that area is big enough to set a large ice chest there (we've done it), so, it's wide enough for a body, and I guess long enough if body is sort of in a fetal position. If I were going to lift a dead body into a van, assuming that the van was of similar make, that's where I would put it. It would be pretty much out of view to passing vehicles, and wouldn't involve a lot of bending to lift.

But...I would DEFINITELY put something under or around the body -- like a shower curtain -- to keep any bodily fluids from seeping out on the van carpet...and would probably wrap the shower curtain around the body and duct tape it. Is the snow still in that area??? or is it mostly melted now??? ...I would be looking for scraps of duct tape, and also a shower curtain or tarp or something discarded somewhere between Center Road and the apartments in Norwich.

Got to be the guinea pig and my other friend is now traumatized forever....I could not get her lifted in...and I lift horse feed...:facepalm:....but yes...it is possible...but not real comfy...this van has the side door too...and from the passenger side....more room...but from driver's side...not so much...we tried it is very little clothing...with a blanket and with an vinyl tablecloth....much extra material made it almost too bulky...

Agree with you, but the areas up for search by those working on this have many seasonal roads....which were bare or muddy on the day, or on several days (after the snow) following when JR disappeared....so did not search today...we have a list of items that might have possibly been left at scene(s)...good thought!!

Thank you:blushing:...It seemed silly to some of my friends, but gave me a whole different perspective of what may have happened...with that being said....here is to hoping for an imminent arrest upon return of the lab reports...:jail:
EVERYONE who has been helping is incredible, dedicated and and so inspiring to me...:rocker: :tyou:

 

[zwiebel]

Pob, not sleuthing any private info at ALL, but I believe you may have contacted LE to see if you had any info they might find useful?

Do you have any words of wisdom here, for anyone who might be reading and have info they might be afraid/embarassed/reluctant to contact LE about? If you found it difficult or easy? What the reception was like, if you were glad you did it?

Not what the contents of your discussion were, of course.

 

[Pob]

Bear, u r amazing star, we all thank you for your work ��With a super adrenaline rush due to a major event, I think I could lift a car, there are reports on this widely known.

 

[BearAngel]

Just a thought on why the hair color may be important, could it be lethal if ingested? Could that be something that happened by forced that morning and GR needed a reason to say why it was in the home? Not sure of this but a thought.

Out of the many puzzles of this...the hair dye story is the one that makes the least sense...when I looked it up...much to my surprise, many who dye their hair thought the rinse out looked like a murder scene, and even their clothes appeared also look like one...am sure there is an reasonable explanation for that to have been included when she went missing...but not used in the description for JR to be located:facepalm:...but if the person who harmed her knows her at all..they must know that she just had her hair done...and she more than likely did not have an allergic reaction, as she had used many products over the years.:twocents:
Here is an article on hair used in trace... http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/trace/5.html

Hair analysis can indicate whether the source is human or animal, and also whether the source is a member of a particular race. It can determine if the hair has been dyed, cut in a certain way or pulled out, and where on the body it was located.In some cases, evidence of poisoning shows up in the hair. The hair shaft with a follicle can also offer genetic determinations, such as blood type or DNA, and since the external layer of the shaft resists decomposition, it's the kind of evidence that has real staying power.

Vernon J. Gerberth, in Practical Homicide Investigation, points out that hair (and fiber) evidence is useful in

Helping to establish the scope of the crime scene
Placing a perpetrator at a scene
Connecting a suspect with a weapon
Supporting witness statements
Connecting crime scene areas (abduction, vehicle used, dump site)

Poison is such a coward's weapon. I do believe that now, if there is any suspected foul play...poison would be looked for automatically.

 

[Pob]

Pob, not sleuthing any private info at ALL, but I believe you may have contacted LE to see if you had any info they might find useful?

Do you have any words of wisdom here, for anyone who might be reading and have info they might be afraid/embarassed/reluctant to contact LE about? If you found it difficult or easy? What the reception was like, if you were glad you did it?

Not what the contents of your discussion were, of course.

Honestly, I still find it awkward that somebody I chatted to for hours was found as she was (god rest her soul). I'm glad I did call though, even if I added nothing more than they already know. I would recommend anybody that can help in anything like this, no matter how small you may think, please remember there is a family grieving for a loved one.
ETA: There isn't a day that passes that I don't think how those children move on in life without their mother.

 

[Sharoneonta]

Bless you, Bear.

I still think the hair dye was a diversion. My first thought when I read about Jen on one of her cousins posts was "she doesn't want to be found". Initially, it worked on me. It makes me sad/mad now that I've come to know SO much more about this case.

 

[Amster]

I've noticed it's been unusually quiet in here, especially amongst our regular posters. I hope that nobody is being discouraged by harassment of certain previous posters, public or otherwise. I also hope nobody is being encouraged to not speak out as voices of Jennifer by those outside this forum.
Please remember that Jennifer has no voice, we've all played a small part in helping her obtain one, (with large part credited to Mr Mahoney),please don't fall silent and let anyone stifle Jennifer's voice again.
JUSTICE FOR JENNIFER!

I check in every day....hoping the focus will be finding out what happened to Jennifer. I just don't choose to be any part of putting blame on LE. I don't believe they killed Jennifer or are covering up for someone who did. I also don't believe they are stupid or incompetent or corrupt. :twocents:

 

[deoneta]

So many of the things said by and for GR early on that seemed "awkwardly phrased" now seem more purposeful. "May have changed her hair color". Gosh, that sounds like she was on the run, like David Kimball dying his hair in "The Fugitive".

As the truth about JR began to emerge, that she was a loving mother and wife, friend and caretaker who was involved in her community and church, the louder the contemptible accusations of her being despondent, disengaged and so changed that she was barely recognizable to her own children became.

"The affair" gets it's own set of quotation marks because you see, it wasn't really an affair, just a tryst that was only emotional or only physical or only a drunken hook up, take your pick. All the third hand psychoanalysis on the other hand was to be taken as fact because ... because... because of stuff behind the scenes you just can't know about. All so insulting to JR, her family and friends and worse yet, so detrimental to the investigation. All MOO

 

[Caring4Many]

I check in every day....hoping the focus will be finding out what happened to Jennifer. I just don't choose to be any part of putting blame on LE. I don't believe they killed Jennifer or are covering up for someone who did. I also don't believe they are stupid or incompetent or corrupt. :twocents:

I hope this isn't the impression you have gotten from any of my comments. I don't believe that LE is to blame, much less that they are incompetent. I think once all the cards are laid out they will be making an arrest. I am not sure that anyone here thinks that LE had any part in Jennifers death though, not sure anyone here does....

 

[SouthAussie]

I asked the HFJR page if the timeline could be posted there as people on that site were asking for one. They said yes.
Would the author of the timeline want to do that?

Yes ... fine with postiing on HFJR .... anything to help! Have added Jillian's FB reference about Jen never willingly leaving GR and kids, & GR giving up hope, so this is the newest version.


Dec 11 8am-3:30pm Jen went missing – husband GR claims she went shopping in Syracuse at 10:30am

Dec 11 5pm-5:30pm Husband GR calls father-in-law in Az ‘should I report Jen missing’

Dec 11 8pm Jen reported missing by husband GR

Dec 12 Husband GR found Jen’s cell phone along HW 23/Moon Hill Rd in Plymouth

Dec 16 Jen's vehicle found in town of Norwich at Plank Manor Apts by Jen’s father

Dec 18 Police carry out search warrants at GR/JRs 18 acre grounds, home, cars, computers and phone records

Dec 18 Rumour started that Jen had begun discussing possibility of separating from GR and had new online gaming friends, according to anonymous ‘family friend’

Dec 19 Investigators interviewed JRs children and other family members

Dec 19 Search continues at GR/JRs property

Dec 19 GR states on FB “Jen would NEVER EVER leave our kids and I willingly ... I hate to say this but I have given up hope that she’ll be found safe and sound”

Dec 31 GR public association with LnM/Cynthia Caron commences (FB page)

Jan 4 Authorities have examined cell phone and computer that Jen had been using, and are awaiting laboratory results

Jan 22 Chenango County Sheriff’s Office urges people not to privately search for Jen

Jan 22 Police awaiting telephone records to come back

Jan 29 GR gives interview to WBNG-TV … “not giving up hope”

Feb 16 Shining Hope event

Feb 22 Blood found in Jen’s van according to Cynthia Caron

Feb 26 Jen’s unclothed body found off side of Center Rd in Pharsalia by private citizen

Feb 28 Body confirmed as Jen

Feb 28 “Screw justice. I want vengeance,” said husband Ganesh Remy Ramsaran

Feb 28 Caron claimed Ramsaran’s sexual involvement with his female running companion was a one-time fling

Mar 2 GR gives last interview

from media maps & timelines

 

[Jilllian]

http://www.wbng.com/home/Husband-Speaks-Out-on-Missing-Wife-188917661.html

this is from 01/29.
watching it again after time has passed makes it look even more sketchy.
body language and affect changes instantly when talking about those who support him, to those who don't. reminds me of those "clap on/clap off!" commercials.

note at the beginning of the video, the reporter said that "in the two months since his wife's disappearance, Ganesh Ramsaran had not agreed to an interview until now."

what i noticed this time that i hadn't last time, is that the reporter says at the very end, something like "Ganesh Ramsaran has offered to take a DNA and lie detector test IF it would help with the investigation."

this was dated 01/29/13.

pretty sure he had already taken a poly and failed prior to this date. if he had passed, would he not (still even now) be shouting it very loudly for all to hear, in an attempt to clear his name? he's been pretty vocal about his "air tight" alibis, so why not the results of the poly?

:jail:

 

[JTKirk]

This is terrific, SouthAussie!

Not only does this time line of events surrounding Jen's case help the new... And most welcome, btw .....posters...

But it helps to consolidate the many pieces of information floating around in the heads of the posters who have been involved longer.... as well...(Like me...:seeya

:gthanks:

Don't forget this one:
Dec 17: Husband contacts a supposed "psychic" for help, and the "psychic" subsequently has numerous conversations with their 13 yr old daughter.

Ganesh Remy Ramsaran17 December 2012 14:01
Please help me and our family find my wife! We are all so lost without her! Our kids and I are really hurting!
http://empathysinsights.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/jennifer-l-ramsaran-missing-alert.html#comment-form

 

[Jilllian]

I hope this isn't the impression you have gotten from any of my comments. I don't believe that LE is to blame, much less that they are incompetent. I think once all the cards are laid out they will be making an arrest. I am not sure that anyone here thinks that LE had any part in Jennifers death though, not sure anyone here does....

I think LE is walking a tight rope allowing GR to have his kids given the circumstantial evidence, and especially given his "holier-than-though" narcissistic traits. He's a walking time bomb, IMO. It's unfortunate that at this time there isn't any legal reason to remove the children.

I also think it's a bad stance for LE to take discouraging public searches, especially when their police force is so small. Not to mention the help they could be getting form other agencies if they just say the word (CUE being just one of them that I know of). Maybe they don't need the help? That's what I'm hoping.

GR fed LE and the media a BS story right from the get-go. As a result, local communities bought into the theory that she just up and left willingly. That LE seemingly bought into this very early on (no APB's out on the van?) is disappointing. I can't tell you how many time's I've heard "Oh, she hasn't come back yet?" or "Leave it be. She must have wanted to leave." And from one local LE, "Why bother? Let the police do their job." Last comment had to do with the HFJR FB page, by someone who obviously underestimates the power of social media.

We hear outrage NOW. Only now, after Jen's body has been found. Where the hello was it when poor Jen was lying naked in a ditch for 84 days?

Why didn't LE inform the media that Jen was a Sunday school teacher, taught various classes, could have won mother-of-the year 13 consecutive times, etc. etc.? Surely they knew this early on when interviewing her family members?

Although I do understand, as has been described to me by the police chief in my own village that while traffic tickets are what LE is used to up here, when a murder does happen they create an intricate timeline of events that involves piecing together every little bit of evidence, from something as seemingly innocuous as a receipt at a convenience store/gas station months ago, to both less and more obvious clues from the more recent past and the present.

I have mixed feelings about LE. One thumb up, and one thumb down, I guess, especially as more time passes...

 

[Caring4Many]

http://www.wbng.com/home/Husband-Speaks-Out-on-Missing-Wife-188917661.html

this is from 01/29.
watching it again after time has passed makes it look even more sketchy.
body language and affect changes instantly when talking about those who support him, to those who don't. reminds me of those "clap on/clap off!" commercials.

note at the beginning of the video, the reporter said that "in the two months since his wife's disappearance, Ganesh Ramsaran had not agreed to an interview until now."
what i noticed this time that i hadn't last time, is that the reporter says at the very end, something like "Ganesh Ramsaran has offered to take a DNA and lie detector test IF it would help with the investigation."

this was dated 01/29/13.

pretty sure he had already taken a poly and failed prior to this date. if he had passed, would he not (still even now) be shouting it very loudly for all to hear, in an attempt to clear his name? he's been pretty vocal about his "air tight" alibis, so why not the results of the poly?

:jail:

BBM
I took this piece to mean that up until then- he had refused to do the interviews....never caught that before.

 

[Jilllian]

BBM
I took this piece to mean that up until then- he had refused to do the interviews....never caught that before.

Yes. On HIS terms.

 

[Ace85FL]

That is correct nursebeeme.

I have read some on this before, especially in regards to serial killers and determining their possible locations by using the familiar range.

I did something similar in this case as well before Jennifer's body was discovered, by drawing 10 mile radii circles around each of the things pertinent to the case, assigning a yellow circle around the Ramsaran residence, a red circle around the site where the van was found, and a blue circle around the Moon Hill/SR 23 intersection.

On my map, Jennifer's body was located on the fringe of the red circle.

I've included that map here, so that the moderators can add it to the Media and Map thread.

http://oi48.tinypic.com/33m4lts.jpg

I should point out that the location marked "Body Found" on the map is wrong. Jennifer's body was still located in that vicinity on the outer fringes of the red circle (purple area), but located a little to the east of there.

I had made the "Body Found" notation on the map, the night that they had discovered her body, and before Jennifer was positively identified.

The coordinates used on the map are as follows:
Ramsaran Sheff Road residence = 42.5697665, -75.4342695
Moon Hill Road Intersection on State Road 23 = 42.597462, -75.599113
Plank Road Manor Apartments = 42.541839, -75.534604

Radius distance: 10 mi (16.09 km)

Proper approximate coordinates for the location where Jennifer's body was discovered are as follows:
Center Road = (approximate) 42.603539, -75.681231

and

thank you for the map!! Would it be to much trouble to add the dates to each note of location on the map and repost?

Here is the updated link to the map, with dates included, and the approximate location on the map of where Jennifer's body was located.

http://oi47.tinypic.com/snks3d.jpg

Again the coordinates are the same:

Ramsaran Sheff Road residence = 42.5697665, -75.4342695
Moon Hill Road Intersection on State Road 23 = 42.597462, -75.599113
Plank Road Manor Apartments = 42.541839, -75.534604

Radius distance: 10 mi (16.09 km)

Approximate coordinates for the location where Jennifer's body was discovered:

Center Road = (approximate) 42.603539, -75.681231

 

[Jilllian]

and



Here is the updated link to the map, with dates included, and the approximate location on the map of where Jennifer's body was located.

http://oi47.tinypic.com/snks3d.jpg

Again the coordinates are the same:

Ramsaran Sheff Road residence = 42.5697665, -75.4342695
Moon Hill Road Intersection on State Road 23 = 42.597462, -75.599113
Plank Road Manor Apartments = 42.541839, -75.534604

Radius distance: 10 mi (16.09 km)

Approximate coordinates for the location where Jennifer's body was discovered:

Center Road = (approximate) 42.603539, -75.681231

Thank you very much for this, Ace.