NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest*

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Daniel Penny is expected to be arraigned at noon in Manhattan, where the courtroom has been closed to more reporters. The judge denied photo applications. Bail bondsman to the stars, Ira Judelson, is here. It doesn't look like Penny will address the media after the proceeding.


Penny was released on a $100,000 partially-secured bond, requiring him to pay about $6,000 today. If he misses any court dates, he’ll be on the hook for the full amount.
 
Lilibet said:
If Mr Neely’s victim had compassionate thoughts toward him before he hit her in the face, I hope she has kept her kind nature in spite of her injuries. You’re right, he might not have been inclined to respond favorably to kind words, an offer of a snack or a seat. We will never know, will we?…because Penny decided to take him down in a choke hold, which took his life. No one had a chance to try kindness first. Isn’t it better to try kindness and fail than to jump immediately to irresponsible aggression?
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I sure would not want my nose and orbital bone broken because some one was having a psychotic break in public, IMO. Do you know how long that might take to heal if you are 67 and if you would ever have the same face?
No work, no driving, maybe medical bills?
I think society can not rely on the mentally ill to get diagnosed and if necessary take meds, and I think it is impossible to train the rest of society (men, woman, children) to try to tip toe around them and hope that they do not act out. IMO. This incident seems ugly all around. I really want to hear what the other train passengers have to say.
 

What is second-degree manslaughter?​

Second-degree manslaughter charges are filed when a person "recklessly causes the death of another person", according to New York's criminal code.
In New York state, the jury must find the defendant engaged in reckless conduct creating an unjustifiable risk of death, and then consciously disregarded that risk.
The defendant's actions must also be a gross deviation from how a reasonable person would have acted in a similar situation.
Suspects who unintentionally caused a death, but were unaware of the danger of their actions, could face a lesser charge of criminal negligent homicide.


Manhattan prosecutor Alvin Bragg is confident enough that he can win a conviction that he opted to file charges directly, rather than punting the controversial decision to a grand jury, which can be used to determine whether there is enough evidence to pursue a prosecution.
There has been a growing awareness of the danger of chokeholds after the 2014 death of Eric Garner, an unarmed man from New York City restrained by the neck by police.
And after the death of George Floyd in 2020, New York legislators increased penalties for officers who use chokeholds during arrest.

www.bbc.com

Jordan Neely: What happened in NYC subway chokehold case?

Video shows Daniel Penny with his arms around Jordan Neely's neck for about two minutes and 55 seconds.
www.bbc.com
 
acutename said:
I sure would not want my nose and orbital bone broken because some one was having a psychotic break in public, IMO. Do you know how long that might take to heal if you are 67 and if you would ever have the same face?
No work, no driving, maybe medical bills?
I think society can not rely on the mentally ill to get diagnosed and if necessary take meds, and I think it is impossible to train the rest of society (men, woman, children) to try to tip toe around them and hope that they do not act out. IMO. This incident seems ugly all around. I really want to hear what the other train passengers have to say.
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I would like to hear from the other passengers as well. It is easy for people to say they themselves wouldn’t have felt threatened in that situation, but I wonder if the passengers would say how they felt, whether they felt threatened.
 
I refuse to ride the subway in my major city, because of menaces like this guy. This Marine reverted to his training, and protected his fellow passengers. People held at gunpoint, offenders battering passengers, rapes, sexual assaults, robberies, and murders occur.

I don’t for a second believe that this Marine was trying to kill him. In a stressful situation like this, you tend to have auditory exclusion, and other things going on.

He was violent. He was threatening. <modsnip>

The system failed here, and it’s failing again.
 
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IceIce9 said:
I will say again that I don’t have all the answers. But I do know that people should have the right to ride public transportation without being threatened. And they should be able to walk on a sidewalk without being violently assaulted.
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He did not violently assault anyone on the train. He also didn't threaten anyone.

Now, would I have felt uncomfortable being in that car? Yep, probably. So I remove myself from the situation.
 
MassGuy said:
I refuse to ride the subway in my major city, because of menaces like this guy. This Marine reverted to his training, and protected his fellow passengers. People held at gunpoint, offenders battering passengers, rapes, sexual assaults, robberies, and murders occur.

I don’t for a second believe that this Marine was trying to kill him. In a stressful situation like this, you tend to have auditory exclusion, and other things going on.

He was violent. He was threatening. 40 arrests, to include punching an elderly woman and man in the face, and kidnapping a 7 year old. He should have been in a mental hospital, or in prison.

The system failed here, and it’s failing again.
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Vigilante choking is not marine training.
Links already posted upthread but take it from an actual marine.
slate.com

I Was in the Military. The Marine Who Killed Jordan Neely Sure Ignored His Training.

Service members are not taught that choking a civilian to death is OK.
slate.com slate.com
 
apnews.com

Marine veteran who fatally choked NYC subway rider Jordan Neely is freed pending trial

A U.S. Marine veteran who used a fatal chokehold on an agitated New York City subway passenger was freed from custody hours after surrendering on a manslaughter charge. Daniel Penny appeared in court hours after turning himself in at a police station after prosecutors said they were charging him...
apnews.com apnews.com

A judge authorized Penny’s release on $100,000 bond and ordered him to surrender his passport and not to leave New York without approval. Prosecutors said they are seeking a grand jury indictment. Penny is due back in court on July 17.
 
www.theguardian.com

‘It’s a failure of the system’: before Jordan Neely was killed, he was discarded

The young New Yorker, who lived with severe mental illness, was known to hospitals, police and social services. Why did the city fail him?
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Near the end of Jordan Neely’s life, there was one last layer of New Yorkers who were trying to catch him: his fans.

Nine months before Neely died, one concerned fan started a Facebook group to look for him: “We want to support and help him, where ever he might be,” wrote the admin. “Fans are worried he could be homeless somewhere in NYC … let’s try to find Mr Neely.”

Last week, after Neely’s death, the group turned into a memorial. “You saw a lot of trauma in your life. You tried your best to use your talents to make others happy … when you were in crisis you deserved compassion,” one user wrote. “Instead others decided that you were a threat and silenced you forever. We will remember your name.”
 
<modsnip - quoted post and response removed>

While I understand feeling uncomfortable or scared, I still feel that the guy did not need to escalate to the point of assaulting and then killing the man.
 
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IceIce9 said:
I would like to hear from the other passengers as well. It is easy for people to say they themselves wouldn’t have felt threatened in that situation, but I wonder if the passengers would say how they felt, whether they felt threatened.
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Okay, let's say they felt threatened. This man did not try to protect them, ask the man to calm down, etc. He jumped him from behind and killed him.

I'm not okaying his previous actions, but since the Marine didn't know about them, they seem moot.

If I started acting erratic on the train and yelled how hungry and thirsty and frustrated I was, does that allow someone else to subdue me to the point where I am killed? I doubt it. No one would know my past history.

Is it only okay because he was homeless or a POC?

***I am NOT suggesting that you or others on this board are saying it was okay because of either of those reasons. I guess I am asking where is the line? There seems to be more and more crimes against people because they made others feel anxious. (riding a train, pulling into a driveway, knocking at a door). If I did one of those things as a white woman, would those people feel as threatened? I'm guessing not.
 
mooseandcoffee said:
If I started acting erratic on the train and yelled how hungry and thirsty and frustrated I was, does that allow someone else to subdue me to the point where I am killed? I doubt it.
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Are you also saying that you no longer care if you receive a life sentence?

But... I agree with you, however, I dont think chocking him over a 15 minute period was justified.

I also think Manslaughter is the best charge the DA can hope given the possibility that New Yorkers are sick and tired of subway assaults and chaos.

<modsnip>
 
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MassGuy said:
I refuse to ride the subway in my major city, because of menaces like this guy. This Marine reverted to his training, and protected his fellow passengers. People held at gunpoint, offenders battering passengers, rapes, sexual assaults, robberies, and murders occur.

I don’t for a second believe that this Marine was trying to kill him. In a stressful situation like this, you tend to have auditory exclusion, and other things going on.

He was violent. He was threatening. <modsnip>

The system failed here, and it’s failing again.
Click to expand...
I get it. But a citizen can’t just kill somebody if there’s no threat for their life. He had the guy subdued. They could have sat on his back or held him down without choking his neck.
 
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BrownRice said:
I get it. But a citizen can’t just kill somebody if there’s no threat for their life. He had the guy subdued. They could have sat on his back or held him down without choking his neck.
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My point is he wasn’t trying to, which is what the charge is saying. The reason this is making headlines, is that people are trying to make it a race issue, without any evidence.

Did he go to far? No question.

But my point is simply he wasn’t trying to kill him.
 
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