NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #1

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jillycat said:
According to news reports and even direct quotes from police at times as per media, the story ranges: There were no signs of obvious trauma, she had visible bruising all over her body, there were visible signs of strangulation. A tooth was cracked, her teeth were cracked from biting the killer, her teeth were smashed in the attack, she never knew what hit her and was grabbed, she fought back, she was knocked out as she was grabbed and dragged. She was a writer, she received a degree in Communications, she was a speech therapist, she was working as a waitress, she worked in a lounge, she was a caterer in a lounge also working as a speech pathologist.

For some reason, the narrative about this victim has created a mythical image in place of what, from what I can tell, has been truly confirmed. I find this sad because the image of the victim starts to override the person who was actually murdered. No matter what she was in life and where she worked, or whether we say "caterer" vs "waitress' or "therapist" vs "pathologist", or whether or not she fought back like a trooper, she died on a jogging trail doing what was her business and no one else's - all because a pathetic coward who hunts women who can't see him coming wanted a victim that day. You hear about victims who are poor or unattractive or unknown to a community as being 'lesser' victims in the eyes of the media and greater culture. But I think it's equally unfair for a beautiful woman with a fit body to become a poster character for fighting off her perp with valor. Maybe it's all true and she gave this perp a run for his money. Part of me hopes for her sake that she got some licks in. But that also means she was conscious, and then I hope she was in fact knocked out and never knew a thing.

Whatever the case, no victim image is a 'good' one.

So, I just hope the police can find this individual before he kills the next woman, which I believe is a given if he's not caught in short order. Even if it was someone who saw her film or passed her in a bar or didn't like Italian girls with firefighter fathers, or whatever his deal may have been, I seriously doubt that his homicidal behavior is confined to 'getting' Karina.

I've lost a child. It's scathing. I wish her parents peace. And I wish the police a huge stroke of luck. I'm sure they are frustrated.
Click to expand...

I'm so sorry for your loss...
 
Inthedetails said:
Regarding the profiler that commented on the two cases (Karina in NY and Vanessa in MA), she revealed something that hasn't been shared yet. This was posted above, but I'm sharing it again here:

"Karina Vetrano, New York City woman who was killed jogging the week prior. A man attacked Vetrano by hitting her over the head with a rock and dragging her body into a nearby wooded area.

Following a struggle, Vetrano was strangled so forcefully her neck was almost broken."

I had been thinking that Karina was attacked by more than one person, but if this rock report is correct, I revise my theory to it being one perp. I think if there were two, they wouldn't need a rock to subdue her.

The information of the rock changes the situation for me, though I can't help but wonder WHY the profiler shared that information when LE has not. I wonder if she was not supposed to! (Or is she incorrect?)

http://www.masslive.com/news/worces.../fbi_profiler_on_vanessa_marcotte_killer.html

jmopinion at the moment, subject to change
Click to expand...

So what was that about her biting him so hard her teeth cracked ? just a guess, just an opinion ?
 
GeeEm said:
Not sure what you are asking? Links?

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20...ueens-woman-found-dead-howard-beach-marshland

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...father-howard-beach-marshes-article-1.2736823
Click to expand...

This link in post #874 with a profiler's remarks about Karina's murder:
http://www.masslive.com/news/worces.../fbi_profiler_on_vanessa_marcotte_killer.html

So I'm asking what is the origin of these stories about what allegedly happened? This profiler provided no source for her claims.
 
jillycat said:
According to news reports and even direct quotes from police at times as per media, the story ranges: There were no signs of obvious trauma, she had visible bruising all over her body, there were visible signs of strangulation. A tooth was cracked, her teeth were cracked from biting the killer, her teeth were smashed in the attack, she never knew what hit her and was grabbed, she fought back, she was knocked out as she was grabbed and dragged. She was a writer, she received a degree in Communications, she was a speech therapist, she was working as a waitress, she worked in a lounge, she was a caterer in a lounge also working as a speech pathologist.

For some reason, the narrative about this victim has created a mythical image in place of what, from what I can tell, has been truly confirmed. I find this sad because the image of the victim starts to override the person who was actually murdered. No matter what she was in life and where she worked, or whether we say "caterer" vs "waitress' or "therapist" vs "pathologist", or whether or not she fought back like a trooper, she died on a jogging trail doing what was her business and no one else's - all because a pathetic coward who hunts women who can't see him coming wanted a victim that day. You hear about victims who are poor or unattractive or unknown to a community as being 'lesser' victims in the eyes of the media and greater culture. But I think it's equally unfair for a beautiful woman with a fit body to become a poster character for fighting off her perp with valor. Maybe it's all true and she gave this perp a run for his money. Part of me hopes for her sake that she got some licks in. But that also means she was conscious, and then I hope she was in fact knocked out and never knew a thing.

Whatever the case, no victim image is a 'good' one.

So, I just hope the police can find this individual before he kills the next woman, which I believe is a given if he's not caught in short order. Even if it was someone who saw her film or passed her in a bar or didn't like Italian girls with firefighter fathers, or whatever his deal may have been, I seriously doubt that his homicidal behavior is confined to 'getting' Karina.

I've lost a child. It's scathing. I wish her parents peace. And I wish the police a huge stroke of luck. I'm sure they are frustrated.
Click to expand...

I am so sorry for the loss of your child, jillycat. I cannot imagine.

I agree so much with your post. With so many of these cases, I have had that same thought regarding the hope that they were able to fight back along with the wish that she didn't have to know or suffer. I've struggled with this regarding the sierah joughin case. I cannot imagine the pain a family would go through and their own struggle to reconcile these ideas in a way that brings about some form of comfort and peace when thinking about their loved ones last moments. My heart goes out to every family that has had to endure such gut-wrenching loss.
 
Inthedetails said:
Regarding the profiler that commented on the two cases (Karina in NY and Vanessa in MA), she revealed something that hasn't been shared yet. This was posted above, but I'm sharing it again here:

"Karina Vetrano, New York City woman who was killed jogging the week prior. A man attacked Vetrano by hitting her over the head with a rock and dragging her body into a nearby wooded area.

Following a struggle, Vetrano was strangled so forcefully her neck was almost broken."

I had been thinking that Karina was attacked by more than one person, but if this rock report is correct, I revise my theory to it being one perp. I think if there were two, they wouldn't need a rock to subdue her.

The information of the rock changes the situation for me, though I can't help but wonder WHY the profiler shared that information when LE has not. I wonder if she was not supposed to! (Or is she incorrect?)

http://www.masslive.com/news/worces.../fbi_profiler_on_vanessa_marcotte_killer.html

jmopinion at the moment, subject to change
Click to expand...

I'm surprised the profiler leakedinfo about a rock being used, and how viciously she was strangled! LE might have wanted to keep the rock quite so as only the perp would know this and use it to determine if a future confession is real....

Strangulation requires strong hands, and this one would, even stronger! - so tells us what we are looking for.

Not sure at this point if one or more perps - would think crime scene might tell.

The level or rage/hate displayed really stands out - criminology says rage indicated something personal; however, I've seen cases where perps of a different social/ethnic background can have a built-up rage against those of better/different background - and this rage comes out during commission of crime.
 
Actually i would not give that much about the information regarding the use of a "rock" as also what this former "profiler" says in general. As far as i know this profiler was not at the crime scene.

I even do not trust some statements about the victim put on a "ferociuos fight" as long as we do not have a written and official LE report about the crime.

Such statements seem similar to official statements after e.g. plane crashes when it is stated that the passengers died at once and had not to suffer for a long time. Probably officials give the public/relatives the informations about the last moments of victims of a tragedy the audience wishes to hear to find inner peace.
In the Karina case it could be the statement that she fighted courageous for her life. Of course i do not want to say that she did not fight against the attacker, i am just very skeptical about any kind of statements about this murder as long as the case it not 100% enlightened.
 
So the theory is a vagrant happening upon her... If so he certainly acted fast - or maybe attacked her on her return trip (if in fact her path was circular).
The mosquitoes and humidity have been ferocious this summer, so other than a vagrant, hanging around in the weeds for hours seems odd.
 
If she was hit over the head and stunned to the point where he could drag this althetic woman into the weeds...which implies little resistance...then the "ferocious fight" does not seem logical.
 
stmarysmead said:
If she was hit over the head and stunned to the point where he could drag this althetic woman into the weeds...which implies little resistance...then the "ferocious fight" does not seem logical.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same. However, it is possible she was knocked out for a few minutes and once came to, she bit and fought.
 
stmarysmead said:
If she was hit over the head and stunned to the point where he could drag this althetic woman into the weeds...which implies little resistance...then the "ferocious fight" does not seem logical.
Click to expand...
Unless she was hit just enough for her to be slightly unconscious and once in the weeds she fought back.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
HELP!

I am looking for the book recommendation that was posted on this thread. Can't remember the OP or name of book. TIA
 
stmarysmead said:
If she was hit over the head and stunned to the point where he could drag this althetic woman into the weeds...which implies little resistance...then the "ferocious fight" does not seem logical.
Click to expand...

Why do you say that? Being stunned doesn't not mean being knocked unconscious.
 
Momoffourboys said:
HELP!

I am looking for the book recommendation that was posted on this thread. Can't remember the OP or name of book. TIA
Click to expand...

Was it the book that had a chapter or so posted online? If so, perhaps you can look in your "history" file on your computer to find it?

(I recently cleared my history or I would look.)

Never mind....Wide Open was johnny-on-the-spot and posted the title. :)
 
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