NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #1

[x_files]

These are my thoughts exactly. Everytime someone ask why did she go in there alone, I think how this guy could of found her a few blocks before she entered the park and pulled her into a car, etc. It doesn't matter where or when something happens. These scums will do it anywhere.

I went into the cemetery today to visit my Uncle's resting place. At one point I looked around, and no one was around. In that very moment I feared for my life. That someone will appear and harm me. Up until Karina's murder, I felt safe in there. Now, you just never know!

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A serial rapist was attacking grieving women at several Seattle Cemeteries talk about low. No where is safe.

 

[Trackergd]

Does somebody know if large enough stones/rocks lie around there at that park, or has a criminal to bring it with him to the scene?

The vagrant theory seems a bit too stereotypically to me. Do not think the killer was a vagrant.

If a rock was used maybe the criminal wanted to knock her out cold, then rape her and leave unidentified the scenery after the rape when she is alive but unconscious - but she recovered very fast and fought against him, so he strangled her neck with so much force as a consequence of finding himself unprepared of a situation the victim resists so much.
This is just a thought in case a rock was used which is not confirmed yet.

The attacker is not necessarily a vagrant. There are many folks either by choice or by events have few possessions. I'm wondering what is the "trigger" for this attacker? Did he come to this area from another? Similar cases in the region?

Looking at the Google earth view, some interesting things pop out at me. The proximity of houses all along one side with water along the other. An attacker can easily egress the trail from any number of points in the developed areas, however he has to use some care as a rapid exit is hampered by water along the other side forcing him to exit into the developed areas at some point. After committing the act, he has to exit the area without being seen. More so if his victim is able to escape or screams alerting others. What is the exit point that has the least risk of detection and does not trap him between responders and the river?

 

[Trackergd]

The brutality of this crime, doesn't seem like a once in a whiler, if there is such a thing. His aggression seems to be at high peak, lost control, active phase; however the time period between ARS' attack on the adult female jogger and the murder of Jessica Ridgeway was 5 months (May to October).

Could he have been in jail, half way house or mental/drug treatment center between acts?

 

[Oddmomout]

Karina worked at Vetro restaurant. Thought people might be interested in seeing what the place looks like.

http://vetronyc.com/

She also worked at central lounge in astoria (which was just used as a location for Orange is the New Black if anyone follows the show)

http://www.centrallounge.com/

https://www.facebook.com/CENTRALLOUNGE/ (scroll down for OITNB clip)

 

[Oddmomout]

HELP!

I am looking for the book recommendation that was posted on this thread. Can't remember the OP or name of book. TIA

The Gift of Fear by Gavin Debecker? really excellent read

 

[Lauranyc83]

The attacker is not necessarily a vagrant. There are many folks either by choice or by events have few possessions. I'm wondering what is the "trigger" for this attacker? Did he come to this area from another? Similar cases in the region?

Looking at the Google earth view, some interesting things pop out at me. The proximity of houses all along one side with water along the other. An attacker can easily egress the trail from any number of points in the developed areas, however he has to use some care as a rapid exit is hampered by water along the other side forcing him to exit into the developed areas at some point. After committing the act, he has to exit the area without being seen. More so if his victim is able to escape or screams alerting others. What is the exit point that has the least risk of detection and does not trap him between responders and the river?

There is a bike path along the other side that runs parallel to the Belt Parkway, no houses on that side. I have biked that path numerous times and theres many ways to get into Spring Creek and exiting without anyone seeing you. The bike path is not used by many people and at times would have no one biking by for at least 30 minutes. There's also places of exit at the end of Spring Creek park by Crossbay Blvd, attacker could exit there without being noticed.

Planes fly low there, as JFK airport is nearby. So her screams could be silenced by the planes.

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[Razz]

I was at Vetro for the first time this year on Mother's Day. My sister in law picked it out. It is a very nice restaurant. They overcharged my credit card and I had been trying to get in touch with the owner for months now. Then this happened and I heard she worked there, now I don't even care to get the $30 overcharge back. I just hope they find her murderer. And as I noted last night, as I drove by Vetro on my way to the beach, I got an eerie feeling like the killer was someone who frequents there. And either he hasn't been back, and I hope one day someone says "hey have you seen so and so, I wonder where he has been" or the killer has been back to hear what people are saying. Ugh.

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I get the heebee jeebies about this place too and I don't even live in the state!
I am concerned that you haven't been able to contact anyone? about your $30 overcharge. One would think there would be an accounting department that could rectify that. Why the owner? I think it very strange that no one has gotten back to you re this issue. Maybe it happens frequently? I would pursue this. As lovely as it sounds
and as good as the food is........
it may not be all it"s cracked up to be.


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[Lauranyc83]

I get the heebee jeebies about this place too and I don't even live in the state!
I am concerned that you haven't been able to contact anyone? about your $30 overcharge. One would think there would be an accounting department that could rectify that. Why the owner? I think it very strange that no one has gotten back to you re this issue. Maybe it happens frequently? I would pursue this. As lovely as it sounds
and as good as the food is........
it may not be all it"s cracked up to be.


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Everytime I called they said I need to speak to the owner/manager. Either he was busy with something or not in. They are closed on Mondays. So I called about 5 times. Have left my cellphone. He called back once while I was at work and could not pick up. Phone tag off and on. I was going to walk in eventually with the receipt and my bank statement, but life got busy. My uncle passed away and I work a lot.

The crowd that hangs out there at night isn't the best either. So this thought crossed my mind yesterday as I passed by, that maybe it was someone she met there while working. Knows she jogs in Spring Creek and followed her and entered at an entrance where he knew no one would see him.

A passerby or someone not familiar with the area probably wouldn't know how to get out without anyone noticing.


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[jillycat]

Could he have been in jail, half way house or mental/drug treatment center between acts?

No, he was a 17 year-old psychopath who was unsuccessful in disabling and dragging off a jogging adult female in his first murder attempt, so he opted for a child victim later who was seen walking to school. He had been trolling for weeks and was hunting someone vulnerable enough to easily subdue.

I don't think the passage of time in his case meant anything other than he was calculating and looking for a better target. He said that while in a hunting "mode" in the weeks before he killed Jessica, his heart would race faster when he saw anyone out walking.

I don't think Karina's killer will waste much time before doing this again. He was successful with a very fit victim, the police don't have any idea who did it, and I wonder if this environment was opportune in this case for whatever reason, but the next victim could be in a totally different type of environment. It just seems to me that these predators have trolling turf where they feel comfortable and it's more about a set of opportune circumstances overall. Jogging trails and woods might be attractive to a predator, but daylight does not seem to bother many of these killers, and I wonder if hiding in plain sight is as good a cover for them as lurking in weeds and the dark of night, or whatever else the stereotype might be. Just a thought.

 

[liz b.]

Everytime I called they said I need to speak to the owner/manager. Either he was busy with something or not in. They are closed on Mondays. So I called about 5 times. Have left my cellphone. He called back once while I was at work and could not pick up. Phone tag off and on. I was going to walk in eventually with the receipt and my bank statement, but life got busy. My uncle passed away and I work a lot.

The crowd that hangs out there at night isn't the best either. So this thought crossed my mind yesterday as I passed by, that maybe it was someone she met there while working. Knows she jogs in Spring Creek and followed her and entered at an entrance where he knew no one would see him.

A passerby or someone not familiar with the area probably wouldn't know how to get out without anyone noticing.


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BBM : if you want to, can you elaborate on this ? tia Food looks so very authentic and good. Wonder who owns the place ; they must do really well...jmo

 

[Razz]

Everytime I called they said I need to speak to the owner/manager. Either he was busy with something or not in. They are closed on Mondays. So I called about 5 times. Have left my cellphone. He called back once while I was at work and could not pick up. Phone tag off and on. I was going to walk in eventually with the receipt and my bank statement, but life got busy. My uncle passed away and I work a lot.

The crowd that hangs out there at night isn't the best either. So this thought crossed my mind yesterday as I passed by, that maybe it was someone she met there while working. Knows she jogs in Spring Creek and followed her and entered at an entrance where he knew no one would see him.

A passerby or someone not familiar with the area probably wouldn't know how to get out without anyone noticing.


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Hmmmmm....With a business that appears to do as much business as it does, they should have come up with the discrepancy right away when reconciling their books. What happens to that extra $30?

I'm not terribly knowledgeable re these things but it's not good for the patron nor is it good for the business if people are getting overcharged. I hope you'll stay on it. Could be they're hoping you'll consider it a hassle and give up.
But, IMO, that's bad business on their part and it continues to give me the heebee jeebies about this place.


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[x_files]

Everytime I called they said I need to speak to the owner/manager. Either he was busy with something or not in. They are closed on Mondays. So I called about 5 times. Have left my cellphone. He called back once while I was at work and could not pick up. Phone tag off and on. I was going to walk in eventually with the receipt and my bank statement, but life got busy. My uncle passed away and I work a lot.

The crowd that hangs out there at night isn't the best either. So this thought crossed my mind yesterday as I passed by, that maybe it was someone she met there while working. Knows she jogs in Spring Creek and followed her and entered at an entrance where he knew no one would see him.

A passerby or someone not familiar with the area probably wouldn't know how to get out without anyone noticing.


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How would you describe the crowd?

 

[Lauranyc83]

There is rooftop there called RV Rooftop. I guess you could say the crowd that goes there would be young age 21-30 sometimes 30-35. It turns into a "club scene". Some of them come from the Rockaways, East New York area. Although, I am sure a lot of Howard Beach residents go as well. The Rockaways and East New York are not great areas. If you look up on instagram RV Rooftop you'll be able to see photos and promoter flyers for it.

How would you describe the crowd?

BBM : if you want to, can you elaborate on this ? tia Food looks so very authentic and good. Wonder who owns the place ; they must do really well...jmo

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[MarcBerlin]

Do we know how active Karina was in her profession as speech pathologist? Have patients ever came to her home which is also registered as her business adress? Had she a lot of clients/patients?

The provider enumeration date for her NPI profile 1427428275 was 10/05/2015

 

[mocity]

Do we know how active Karina was in her profession as speech pathologist? Have patients ever came to her home which is also registered as her business adress? Had she a lot of clients/patients?

The provider enumeration date for her NPI profile 1427428275 was 10/05/2015

I did see in some facebook posts some parents posted that their child was seeing her and she would be missed. I believe I also saw a couple of similar comments on the ******** account.

 

[Lawdini01234]

There is a bike path along the other side that runs parallel to the Belt Parkway, no houses on that side. I have biked that path numerous times and theres many ways to get into Spring Creek and exiting without anyone seeing you. The bike path is not used by many people and at times would have no one biking by for at least 30 minutes. There's also places of exit at the end of Spring Creek park by Crossbay Blvd, attacker could exit there without being noticed.

Planes fly low there, as JFK airport is nearby. So her screams could be silenced by the planes.

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I also noticed what looks like a footpath/trail under the bridge of the belt parkway, at what Google has it at Betts Creek, which looks to me like you could go under that bridge to get to the north side of the belt and walk thru the woods that way. IMO keeps them completely out of sight until they end up in Lindenwood area. Not sure if you've ever noticed that, or if you could confirm since you've been on that bike path. To be honest I don't even think you would notice it being on the bike path though.

 

[Lauranyc83]

I also noticed what looks like a footpath under the bridge of the belt parkway, at what Google has it at Betts Creek, which looks to me like you could go under that bridge to get to the north side of the belt and walk thru the woods that way. IMO keeps them completely out of sight until they end up in Lindenwood area. Not sure if you've ever noticed that, or if you could confirm since you've been on that bike path. To be honest I don't even think you would notice it being on the bike path though.

You are right. The creek runs under the Belt Parkway and connects to the north side of Spring Creek. I'm familiar with it because the north side of Spring Creek is where my brother's in-laws live. On my first post here I noted how I hate picking my nephew up late at night there because to park I would have to back in to the fence area. If someone was to exit out that way they would have to climb a fence into the Lindenwood Area. But it also connects to the other side by the Mall (East New York). The attacker would have had to run north on the pathway to that area. Which would make sense if her sneaker and earbud were found on opposite sides of the path. It sounds like he ran out of the weeds and threw everything out of the path (he must of missed her phone because that was still on the path) into the weeds as he was running north towards the belt parkway.

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[Lauranyc83]

Ignore my horrible lines lol. This is the other side of Spring Creek Park, it's moslty marsh and water. I have seen homeless men in this area before but none on the other side of the fence. Unlike the side of Spring Creek where Karina was found, this side is closed off with fences. If he remained on the side closer to the Belt Pkwy he could avoid going into the water and possibly climbed a fence.
Edit: this area was hit hard by Hurricane Sandy and a lot of things have been done to stop the water from coming in from the Bay. So I'm not sure if there still is a way to walk under the Belt pkway underpass like there was before.

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[Lauranyc83]

This image is a little blurry, but he could have walked along side the rocks under the Belt Pkwy and entered the north side of Spring Creek. He would have to be very careful as there is a lot of water on that side.

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[OldSteve]

Extra thanks Lauranyc83 for the maps, images, and local info you provide!