NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #2

[Carver]

Use this as guide to one of the faces, where you see eyes and a nose, parts of a face in blue.

Now, that's from the same image and there is a brownish face in the same place. It looks like a guy, no beard with short hair combed to the side, light T shirt.

You lose me more and more with each edited picture. You're picking up specific details like hairlines and tshirts and laptops being held and even GENDER of these "figures"?

JMO, we've been looking at these disorienting images too long—maybe the mind is making something out of nothing?

 

[OldSteve]

Nothing new, just my rambling on .... tricky case.... I'm torn between it being a random spur-of-the-moment attack, versus something planned in advance... if random, perp extremely lucky as unplanned attacks are sloppy; and this one is not IMO... Seems planned since no one has reported a person on the trail, no with scratches or acting strange after attack, no surveillance, little evidence found, attack took place by only clump of trees along the weeds trails, etc..

ETA - yet because the perp did not bring a weapon with him, but used only what he could find at crime scene, leads me to believe it was unplanned and random...

 

[coastal]

I really do admire all the hard work that some have put in to trying to figure out if someone was watching her in the weeds when she ran on that road, but I have to say I honestly don't see anything.

I mean sure if I stare at the images long enough I can make out several different potential "people" in it, all in different positions....but it feels more like how when your eyes see things in clouds and your brain tries to make sense of the shapes with familiar objects, in other words it feels more like trying to make something be seen that isn't actually there.

I really for one don't think two guys were just hanging out in the dense muggy, buggy weeds with two bikes and a laptop.
Not only do I not see it, but really who brings a laptop into the weeds like that. IF There were people there wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense that they would have used their cell phones to video her or alert someone she was coming...but a laptop? Something like that doesn't make for an easy getaway.

I understand what you are saying, and I agreed with you completely until I opened that browned image that FindHG posted, and a face just jumped out at me. I'm never able to see anything in these close-up details, so I usually don't even look at them. Even now I suspect the face I see there must be my imagination. But I hadn't been staring at anything, or looking at any previous close-up images. I didn't even look at FindHG's first image in that post until after I'd seen the second one, with the face so clearly there, and I don't see a second person, still.

It was so disturbing, to see that face, it's the first thing I thought of when I woke up this morning. I had to come check, to see if he was still there. He is.
I don't know if he's a bad guy, or the bad guy, but he's there. IMO.

 

[Lauranyc83]

Nothing new, just my rambling on .... tricky case.... I'm torn between it being a random spur-of-the-moment attack, versus something planned in advance... if random, perp extremely lucky as unplanned attacks are sloppy; and this one is not IMO... Seems planned since no one has reported a person on the trail, no with scratches or acting strange after attack, no surveillance, little evidence found, attack took place by only clump of trees along the weeds trails, etc..

It may have been a day when no one else was on the trail. It's not a place many people (honestly it's the first time I heard someone even jogged in there) go. The attacker had to have been familiar with the area to know no one frequents the "weeds" and could attack her without being seen or heard.

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[SeesSeas]

Man in the weeds
I mostly lurk on this thread but have been following the posts since the beginning.
I see a man in the weeds on the video, as well as in some of the still images posted by FindHG.
The man is stationary in the midst of the swaying weeds.
I, too, can see ‘visions’ in clouds, but this MAN seems actual, not a vision.

 

[OldSteve]

Man in the weeds
I mostly lurk on this thread but have been following the posts since the beginning.
I see a man in the weeds on the video, as well as in some of the still images posted by FindHG.
The man is stationary in the midst of the swaying weeds.
I, too, can see ‘visions’ in clouds, but this MAN seems actual, not a vision.

Okay, if man is in the weeds, would think video before and after her running by would show him getting into/out of the weeds, or at least moving about... Would think LE would have released that kind of info..

 

[mocity]

I don't see it either but everyone can see different things. My thought is that even if that was a person there, how would he get all the way ahead of her on that run to a spot where he could grab her. I doubt it was some exercise fanatic that could out run her. Maybe a bike would do it but still seems a stretch to get from where "he is watching her" to the place in the weeds where he attacked her.

 

[ThinkHard]

I understand what you are saying, and I agreed with you completely until I opened that browned image that FindHG posted, and a face just jumped out at me. I'm never able to see anything in these close-up details, so I usually don't even look at them. Even now I suspect the face I see there must be my imagination. But I hadn't been staring at anything, or looking at any previous close-up images. I didn't even look at FindHG's first image in that post until after I'd seen the second one, with the face so clearly there, and I don't see a second person, still.

It was so disturbing, to see that face, it's the first thing I thought of when I woke up this morning. I had to come check, to see if he was still there. He is.
I don't know if he's a bad guy, or the bad guy, but he's there. IMO.

I know what image you are referring too, but in my opinion it's not a person it's just looks like there is a person. Just like how sometimes when you look at the clouds you can see something as distinct as a face and other times the shapes are more abstract. I actually have a sky picture were it 100% look like Einsteins face fury obviously it wasn't actually him.

To me the face in that imagery is a long the same lines. I really don't see anyone there.

 

[Bklyngrl007]

The police checked every single camera in that entire area, and were unable to locate any additional footage of her or anything suspicious.

Says who? LE? Just because they say they have checked doesn't always mean they have. Homeowners with cameras may not have offered there video footage or could have lied and said their cameras weren't working..

 

[Bklyngrl007]

They don't only have 1, but they will not release them all. The video was only released to hopefully freshen someones memory of that day who may not have thought they saw her but after seeing video may have remembered seeing her. They didn't release it so the public could find someone in the weeds. LE has gone over each video. The utility guy is most likely active with LE. There is no need for him to go public. I wouldn't. If I potentially saw a suspect and I am giving LE criticial information that could make a break in the case, I wouldn't want to be publicly known for my safety.

I honestly think the perp was on the pathway and came in through the belt parkway side and exited there. There are no cameras there besides a Traffic cam on Erskine St. You still can not see anyone exiting onto the Bike path by Spring creek park.

If he came in from the Crossbay Blvd side and went under the bridge by the shore and followed the path then he may be on Vetro's cameras, but he could also not be.


Here is a map where the green shows where a perp could enter and never be seen (even the shore line if by boat, but I don't believe he came by boat) and red where he would be seen by civilians and surveillance.

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True and I can see your point. I guess Im just a different breed because I wouldn't be concerned about my safety. Maybe because I lost both my parents 3 yrs ago 6 months apart of each other (62 & 63 yrs old both sudden), maybe because my Dad who was also my best friend died in my arms, maybe I understand the pain of their grief, maybe because I understand how bad they need closure or maybe because its just who I am.. And yes Im sure LE has gone over everything and Im sure they only released it because they are at a deadend not it hopes that someone remembers seeing her. H.B. is a close knit community someone saw something but won't come forward for whatever reason. People coming home from work or just people home c'mon. There are neighbors on my block who see things going on and talk about it but at the end of the day they are the say ones who will not say a word, the ones who won't call 911 and make a report even if it happened right in front of them. I know because I've seen it happen and I was the 1 who called even when they said not too get involved or it was too dangerous. Why because its the right thing to do no matter what. I saw 3 guys from my block run up from behind and beat up 2 guys with bats. Smart thing to do not get involved since I live on the block but Im not smart.

 

[moonriverfarm]

Ok so we were told repeatedly by LE that she was raped twice, vaginally and anally, now they say "attempted" sexual assault? Good grief.
And I cannot see a face or anything else in these pics. I still lean toward someone being in the weeds area, seeing an opportunity and taking advantage of it.

 

[Lauranyc83]

Says who? LE? Just because they say they have checked doesn't always mean they have. Homeowners with cameras may not have offered there video footage or could have lied and said their cameras weren't working..

I'm pretty sure with such a gruesome crime like this that LE would warrant footage from home owners. I'm sorry if you are a homeowner and deny LE access to any footage then you are subjected to a warrant, imo.

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[FindHG]

Clouds appeal to me, but I see weather, not controversy, and don't much like taking the bait on superfluous information, try not to at least. Pardon me if the screencaps have been a churn for you. The video pixels, as they appear, I am not able to explain why that segment was released. I just look. That has no bearing on how others sees it, nor does it matter how I see it. LE will make sense of it, could be just a matter of time.

Thank you Forager, very much, for adding to the map. Am catching up with the posts. Neat to see how engaged all the sleuthers on this thread are for Karina. Thank you for all your thoughts.

Karina Vetrano Case Map





This particular area is on a bit of rise, it appears.

from here: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6449553,-73.8457557,31a,20y,334.5h,83.81t/data=!3m1!1e3



from here: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.650996,-73.8476112,33a,20y,180h,83.81t/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[thordis]

I really for one don't think two guys were just hanging out in the dense muggy, buggy weeds with two bikes and a laptop.
Not only do I not see it, but really who brings a laptop into the weeds like that. IF There were people there wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense that they would have used their cell phones to video her or alert someone she was coming...but a laptop? Something like that doesn't make for an easy getaway.

I am a runner who used to live in the tri-state area of NY and ran through similar parks regularly. There were, from time to time, men who would hide in the brush and watch for women running by. They might expose themselves or more actively touch themselves right in front of me. There was even one man who I saw twice in the same spot several months apart. These men did not choose locations based on comfort--they wanted to be obscured while keeping a good view of the people going past.

 

[Lauranyc83]

Don't think this is related, but Jamaica is not too far from HB.

Police arrest man who allegedly raped 17-year-old in Queens Park

http://via.pix11.com/LHRjM

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[Inthedetails]

I am a runner who used to live in the tri-state area of NY and ran through similar parks regularly. There were, from time to time, men who would hide in the brush and watch for women running by. They might expose themselves or more actively touch themselves right in front of me. There was even one man who I saw twice in the same spot several months apart. These men did not choose locations based on comfort--they wanted to be obscured while keeping a good view of the people going past.

Yes, I've had similar encounters. They have been on quiet stretches of paths, but not on a completely isolated path as Karina was on. The flasher could be in wait for days waiting for someone to jog by. Even if he knew her routine, he couldn't predict that day she would be without her dad.

I do think it was someone lurking about in the park for whatever reason he had. I don't think it was someone specially waiting for a jogger in general or Karina specifically.

If there is person in the video that people are seeing (I kinda sorta am, but remain skeptical), I do think he could get to the spot where he hit her. I think that mainly because I would assume it's someone who knows the park well and it would be motivated person. Do I think that happened? Not really. I think it was someone already near the place of attack.

I'm not ruling out a bike just yet either, though I'm still hanging on to my theory from yesterday that she kicked him where the sun don't shine, and that might have made an escape on bike uncomfortable. Too bad.

JMOpinion

 

[Inthedetails]

Nothing new, just my rambling on .... tricky case.... I'm torn between it being a random spur-of-the-moment attack, versus something planned in advance... if random, perp extremely lucky as unplanned attacks are sloppy; and this one is not IMO... Seems planned since no one has reported a person on the trail, no with scratches or acting strange after attack, no surveillance, little evidence found, attack took place by only clump of trees along the weeds trails, etc..

ETA - yet because the perp did not bring a weapon with him, but used only what he could find at crime scene, leads me to believe it was unplanned and random...

OldSteve, you and I have been on similar wave lengths on this case, and that continues with this post.

Sure would like a conclusion to this case.

 

[thordis]

Yes, I've had similar encounters. They have been on quiet stretches of paths, but not on a completely isolated path as Karina was on. The flasher could be in wait for days waiting for someone to jog by. Even if he knew her routine, he couldn't predict that day she would be without her dad.JMOpinion

If, in fact, there is someone watching her in the photo from the security camera, the spot where he watched her was in a populated area near the start of her running route. My thought is that maybe the murderer waited routinely, just to watch an attractive woman run by some days, with or without her Dad. Perhaps when he saw that she was unaccompanied that day, he took horrible advantage of the situation.

If I remember the Google Map images correctly, there is a foot path very close to the road where she is running in the photo. It would be fairly easy for the man to get to and from his observation spot without ever going out onto the street. And then onto the spot where she runs onto the footpath.

 

[Sallie22]

No one runs there. It is not nice.

 

[FindHG]

No one runs there. It is not nice.

Interesting. Remember how, in CWD,Chief of Det. Boyle mentioned the puddle and how Karina's feet were wet? If already a little spooked, Karina may not have had any intention of running the path, then she may have been grabbed earlier and dragged through the marshy section, to where she was found. Does that seem possible or plausible?

Pardon my reposting. Want to remember why Sallie22's comment made me consider the above.

Clouds appeal to me, but I see weather, not controversy, and don't much like taking the bait on superfluous information, try not to at least. Pardon me if the screencaps have been a churn for you. The video pixels, as they appear, I am not able to explain why that segment was released. I just look. That has no bearing on how others sees it, nor does it matter how I see it. LE will make sense of it, could be just a matter of time.

Thank you Forager, very much, for adding to the map. Am catching up with the posts. Neat to see how engaged all the sleuthers on this thread are for Karina. Thank you for all your thoughts.

Karina Vetrano Case Map

View attachment 101412

View attachment 101413

View attachment 101414 This particular area is on a bit of rise, it appears.

from here: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6449553,-73.8457557,31a,20y,334.5h,83.81t/data=!3m1!1e3

View attachment 101415

from here: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.650996,-73.8476112,33a,20y,180h,83.81t/data=!3m1!1e3