NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #2

[Lauranyc83]

I can't link it here, however, I just read an interesting post on Chris Sliwa's (Guardian Angels) facebook page from August 28th....

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[OldSteve]

In NY Jogger Killing, a DNA Sample but No One to Match It To

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ny-jogger-killing-dna-sample-match-41800880

From that article we learn: "in all, detectives have so far received 85 tips, none of which has led to a break in the case, officials said."

Now from cases I've followed, LE often holds back releasing a sketch of a suspect to the public since they first release it to their own officers to see if they see the guy. They know once they go public, the guy will go in hiding, or run out of state, and they also know false leads will take manpower away from other tasks....

 

[kimi_SFC]

I can't link it here, however, I just read an interesting post on Chris Sliwa's (Guardian Angels) facebook page from August 28th....

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It took me a minute to find, and I hope this is the correct link (there are 2 pages for Curtis Silwa)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154341780180449&id=558375448

ETA: :gthanks: Lauranyc! Mr. Silwa states he will upload an interview with Karina's father later today on his page.

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[OldSteve]

It took me a minute to find, and I hope this is the correct link (there are 2 pages for Curtis Silwa)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154341780180449&id=558375448

ETA: :gthanks: Lauranyc! Mr. Silwa states he will upload an interview with Karina's father later today on his page.

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Not sure I found what is being talked about, but appears someone has give Curtis a tip about where to look for evidence.... ( I believe it is okay TOS-wise to put into your own words what is mentioned on facebook, which what I've just done.)
With the storm approaching this Sunday/Monday, time would be of the essence in it checking out.

 

[Lauranyc83]

Not sure I found what is being talked about, but appears someone has give Curtis a tip about where to look for evidence.... ( I believe it is okay TOS-wise to put into your own words what is mentioned on facebook, which what I've just done.)
With the storm approaching this Sunday/Monday, time would be of the essence in it checking out.

That is what I found interesting as well. I'm actually surprised that Curtis has put this on his facebook. What if there was evidence, now you are saying it is not being patrolled by NYPD and suspect goes back to try to get evidence? Which would be stupid on his part. But I thought it was odd he would write this on a public page. I too am hoping whatever they are looking for is found or vetted before the storm. That area always gets hit hard right by the bay during tropical storm/hurricanes/remnants.

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[trigger]

I just realized the hat the homeless man under the bridge wears in the video says "The City of New York Office of Chief Medical Examiner"

Interesting hat to wear.

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I posted the video 2 weeks ago...

http://interactive.nydailynews.com/2015/08/chickens-under-the-bridge/

 

[Lauranyc83]

I posted the video 2 weeks ago...

http://interactive.nydailynews.com/2015/08/chickens-under-the-bridge/

Yes, I noticed that when I posted the link above it had been removed. But it is considered a MSM site, so I'm not sure why?

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[Lauranyc83]

From the above link.

"In mid-July, after many visits over a period of months, outreach workers from a social services agency called Common Ground offered MY and his friend G(edited to remove name) temporary housing in East New York, Brooklyn, about five miles from their camp.

MY (edited to take name out for WS) sits by a campfire under the Joseph P. Addabbo Bridge in Howard Beach, Queens.
On a recent rainy Sunday, MY moved two suitcases bulging with most of his worldly belongings. He left the mattress and the painting of Jesus, conflicted between the opportunity to reassemble his “normal” life and the obligation he now feels to the flock, which he lovingly calls his kids. He has continued to commute, visiting the shores of Spring Creek Park several times a week."

This was over a year ago, I am not sure if he is back there if in fact this leads to something, he would have to exit to the belt parkway to get back to east new york.

I know that he is not a poi, suspect etc. Just discussing whom I belive the sketch resembles. He could very well have been just walking through.

Sidenote: I have already submitted this yesterday to the tip line

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[BluegrassBuckeye]

Lack of empathy alone is not a precursor to deviant behavior though. Lots of people with mis wired limibic systems do not go on to become criminals. Just because many of them can't feel empathy doesn't mean they all lack a social coincidence. Even if they might not be able to feel the pain of someone else doesn't mean a lack of empathy always leads someone to wanting to harm someone.

You have to have both faulty brain wire, and lack of proper support for your differences through development and combined with some unresolved trauma that got locked in the brain at a critical time of development .... On top of lack of empathy for others, to lead to criminal behavior.

I work with troubled youth, I've worked with ages 0-18 with all different backgrounds, all different struggles, all different biological/genetic issues and mis wired brains etc....every kid with the right person to understand them, and with the right support can overcome any "wiring" differences.

It doesn't mean that they will see the world the same way as everyone else, but you can get them to understand the differences btw how they view the world and how most of the rest of the world views it, so that they may learn to use their strengths to bridge these gaps.

Oh I hope I didn't imply anyone without empathy is a psychopath. Of course not!! But Id imagine it would still be something people would like "fixed." I would of it were me. Actually--let me find the article--but I read about someone with Aspergers (and I am in NO way equivocating that with psychopathy) having emotions turned on.

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/03/22/switched-on-after-aspergers

And I agree. Identifying these traits early, and providing appropriate treatment, is absolutely key. However, I don't think we currently understand enough to intervene for each child. The article I referenced earlier from the NYT (can you call a 9 year old a psychopath) goes into this with several experts. So, so fascinating. I can't imagine being a parent to a child like that.

And thank you for all the work you do with kids. It takes a village.

 

[FindHG]

I posted the video 2 weeks ago...

http://interactive.nydailynews.com/2015/08/chickens-under-the-bridge/

Thank you, trigger, hadn't seen. Interesting. Where would the fishermen there get their bait, I wonder?

 

[Lauranyc83]

Thank you, trigger, hadn't seen. Interesting. Where would the fishermen there get their bait, I wonder?

A lot of people fish there, not just homeless. I don't understand why people fish there because the water is very polluted in Jamaica Bay.

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[ThinkHard]

Oh I hope I didn't imply anyone without empathy is a psychopath. Of course not!! But Id imagine it would still be something people would like "fixed." I would of it were me. Actually--let me find the article--but I read about someone with Aspergers (and I am in NO way equivocating that with psychopathy) having emotions turned on.

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/03/22/switched-on-after-aspergers

And I agree. Identifying these traits early, and providing appropriate treatment, is absolutely key. However, I don't think we currently understand enough to intervene for each child. The article I referenced earlier from the NYT (can you call a 9 year old a psychopath) goes into this with several experts. So, so fascinating. I can't imagine being a parent to a child like that.

And thank you for all the work you do with kids. It takes a village.

It's actually amazing to me how little so called experts understand about autism spectrum disorders. They make judgements on why an ASD individual says or does something based on their own frame of reference....far too often failing to see the frame of reference the ASD person is operating from. For example what might look like a unprovoked violent outburst to an observing is actually a reaction to physically painful heightened senses.....lights that buzz too loud or are too bright for example (but go unnoticed by the average person).

"Lack of empathy" in the ASD population is actually kind of the opposite what "lack of empathy" is for a sociopath.

There are two types of empathy there is expressive empathy (i.e. Showing your emotions in actions and facial expressions) and internal empathy (i.e. Actually feeling the pain of others).

With ASD they lack expressive empathy but not internal empathy. Sometimes it appears they lack internal memory simply because the fact that their perception of the world is altered, they aren't going to get upset about the same things, and it's hard for them to understand why someone else would.

With sociopaths they are quite gifted in appearing to have expressive empathy (master manipulators) but lack internal empathy.

In other words sociopaths can be swuave yet not give a ***** about you, and ASD will care a lot but be super awkward and make it difficult to perceive their empathy.

The trick with working with kids in these populations is that you have to observe very carefully, you have to get in their head, you have to see the world the way they do, you have to first meet them where they are before you can walk them through seeing it another way. It's hard, difficult, and time consuming....but worth it every single time. But perhaps my biggest asset in being able to get through to these kids and see it there way and help them bridge these gaps...is because I'm on the spectrum myself (though you'd never guess it if you met me in person)z

 

[Inthedetails]

Checking the news for any updates on the sketch, to see if anyone has come forward....not seeing anything.

 

[FindHG]

A lot of people fish there, not just homeless. I don't understand why people fish there because the water is very polluted in Jamaica Bay.

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Is there a bait shop around there that you know off? Where would one go for that, nearest to the bridge?

Have you seen postings of the sketch around?

 

[ThinkHard]

I just wanted to add that with kids who aren't born in a way that makes them a natural at getting social language or feeling or expressing empathy isn't just about practicing social skills...it's most effective when you teach a child WHY those things are expected or considered rude. You can't just say to an ASD child "that's rude, don't do it". For one they are horrible at following rules that make no sense to them, and two you need to understand how they are interpreting a situation first.

Looking in someone's eyes is awkward for me, it doesn't come natural. But I learned to do it through practice and through an understanding that not doing so makes it look like your not really listening. By understanding how someone else might feel and that it would hurt them is the thing that has always helped me most in overcoming certain things that don't come naturally to me as far as social language goes.

Hope that makes sense...probably could have come up with a better example. I'm super tired toady.

 

[Laura817]

Is there a bait shop around there that you know off? Where would one go for that, nearest to the bridge?

Have you seen postings of the sketch up at all?

There's one right on Crossbay Blvd in Howard Beach. There's another one on Beach Channel Drive in Rockaway. I'm sure there's a few in Brooklyn too

 

[FindHG]

There's one right on Crossbay Blvd in Howard Beach. There's another one on Beach Channel Drive in Rockaway. I'm sure there's a few in Brooklyn too

Thank you so much. Those would be good places to post the sketch, it seems to me.

 

[BluegrassBuckeye]

It's actually amazing to me how little so called experts understand about autism spectrum disorders. They make judgements on why an ASD individual says or does something based on their own frame of reference....far too often failing to see the frame of reference the ASD person is operating from. For example what might look like a unprovoked violent outburst to an observing is actually a reaction to physically painful heightened senses.....lights that buzz too loud or are too bright for example (but go unnoticed by the average person).

"Lack of empathy" in the ASD population is actually kind of the opposite what "lack of empathy" is for a sociopath.

There are two types of empathy there is expressive empathy (i.e. Showing your emotions in actions and facial expressions) and internal empathy (i.e. Actually feeling the pain of others).

With ASD they lack expressive empathy but not internal empathy. Sometimes it appears they lack internal memory simply because the fact that their perception of the world is altered, they aren't going to get upset about the same things, and it's hard for them to understand why someone else would.

With sociopaths they are quite gifted in appearing to have expressive empathy (master manipulators) but lack internal empathy.

In other words sociopaths can be swuave yet not give a ***** about you, and ASD will care a lot but be super awkward and make it difficult to perceive their empathy.

The trick with working with kids in these populations is that you have to observe very carefully, you have to get in their head, you have to see the world the way they do, you have to first meet them where they are before you can walk them through seeing it another way. It's hard, difficult, and time consuming....but worth it every single time. But perhaps my biggest asset in being able to get through to these kids and see it there way and help them bridge these gaps...is because I'm on the spectrum myself (though you'd never guess it if you met me in person)z

excellent post regarding the differences in tyoes of empathy. I'm sorry if my posts seem rushed or pieced together. I have two kids and I am typing on my phone, so I don't have my thoughts as organized as Id like.

Also, great point about the "outburst" of someone with autism. So many times we view things the way our brains are wired without thinking their brains are not the same. This is true even for kids without disorders. I remember in undergrad visiting a juvenile home for girls. The director was making this point by giving an example of a girl who's get into trouble at the end of every school day, having to stay over for detention. She was constantly moved to different schools and programs till she wound up at the juvenile home. Intensive counseling showed that she was being sexually abused by her father every day after school. So acting out and being punished allowed her a few extra hours of safety. My heart broke and It changed my outlook forever.

I have a masters degree in human development and family sciences, so of course this is all fascinating to me. I try to stay up to date on research but it's tough with no access to academic journals and two kids! My research focus in grad school was the impact of disability on the family unit, specifically focusing on positive impact. Id love to see more work in this area

Also. I'm sorry I've gotten so off topic! I'm not sure what the rules are in terms of talking about stuff like this.

 

[Lauranyc83]

Thank you so much. Those would be good places to post the sketch, it seems to me.

Yes there are bait shops in Broad Channel. I will be driving over that bridge today into Broad Channel to go to the Rockaways so I will see if the sketch is up there. I'm pretty sure it is as this is right near Vetro and the Vetranos home.

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[Inthedetails]

Also. I'm sorry I've gotten so off topic! I'm not sure what the rules are in terms of talking about stuff like this.

There are member-only threads for posting off-topic topics. Many times a case will spur conversations like this. I think it's called the Jury Room - but scroll through the forum and you'll see the place to start/join discussions on non-case-specific topics.