GUILTY NY - Leiby Kletzky, 8, Brooklyn, 11 July 2011 - #1

[almino]

Article on neighbors speaking out:
http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/201...-whispers-about-a-loner/?mod=google_news_blog

Sam Lowy, one of Aron’s co-workers at Empire State said he was quiet and a little odd.

“He’s not social. You didn’t get a chance to get into his social life. He did what he did and then went home,” Lowy said. Aron was a stock clerk, meaning he worked in the back of the store and had little interaction with customers.

Sender Berkovits, 62, a professor at Touro College, said he’s known the Aron family for decades. Berkovits and several other neighbors interviewed Wednesday said that the family had had more than its share of troubles, with many saying that Aron’s parents were divorced, as was a sister.

As a child, Berkovits said Aron was normal enough. “In the winter when the days were short and the evenings long, when my children were young, I used to run a program for the kids on the street. They’d just come and play in the shul. Sometimes Levi would come, horse around with the other kids,” he said.

 

[Cubby]

I am sure this guy zeroed in on Leiby right away...normal citizens passed him by, too distracted by their own lives, to see and notice a child alone on the street in the evening, but a predator could spot him in an instant...

BBM. This is what pizzes me off to no end these days. People are so wrapped up in themselves they fail to see when someone like Leiby is in need, or they are simply in too much of a hurry to be bothered. Reminds me of a thread I read, forget where it occured but people literally stepped over a dead body on the sidewalk and some stopped to take pictures on their cell phone before continuing on. grrrrrrr

It only takes a few moments for kindness. think of all those who saw Leiby, did not stop to offer assistance and later learned of his demise. I'd be beside myself. I know those of us at WS would stop and help, even if it meant funny stares, angry comments from someone who misunderstood, or even the police being called.

God Bless Leiby's family and may he rest in peace.

 

[1tasha]

http://http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Timeline-of-Slain-Brooklyn-Boys-Disappearance-125502213.html




I am so impressed with the police work on this case.

Me too! And they said they had at least a thousand volunteers. Way to mobilize.

This story just sickens me. So brutal. You think you're so desensitized to things and inexplicable evil proves you wrong again. Prayers to that poor family.

 

[Deleted member 46332]

Kelly said Aron panicked after seeing flyers of Kletzky around the neighborhood and killed the boy.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/07...utm_medium=dl&utm_campaign=horror-in-brooklyn

fwiw... I am not buying that excuse ^^^ his mother didn't even call LE until after 6 per the timeline and this went to werk the next day.

nope... not buying it...

Completely and wholeheartedly agree. I think there is far more to this crime than has been reported yet. It seems that so many of these "stranger abductions" have a sexual component to them. Even crimes without overt sexual assault sometimes have a sexual undertone.

Frankly, I just can't see any other motive. But maybe I am jaded. Why else would a man pick up a vulnerable and unknown child and take him to his apartment. If there was even the slightest chance this being a well intentioned man, he would not have "panicked." He would have ran him home.
I feel he either sexually assaulted this precious child then panicked or he is simply a violent predator who chose to hurt this child for reasons of power like many serial killers. Judging by that report that other children have been offered rides by LA I am leaning towards the first scenario. so sad. so very very sad.

Also, There have been no reports of LA being mentally challenged. So IMO he had purely criminal intentions towards this child.

 

[cartercar]

There have been helicopters droning over our neighborhood for an hour now, with no signs of slowing down. I can't even bear to look at the news bulletins anymore but I think they are probably holding the funeral and thousands have turned out.

Went out to run a couple of errands, everyone - e v e r y o n e - looks drained, absentminded, on the verge of tears. Men and women alike, Hassidic and non-Hassidic alike. No one needs to say anything. We are all thinking the same thing.

I would like to add a word or two, I am a fairly new member and still trying to learn the material on the site for the most part, that is why I have never posted much. Needless to say, each and every story is equally heartbreaking, whether the missing loved ones are adults or children, whether it happened last week or fifty years ago, across the country or around the corner. I admire so much the members here who are willing to give time and thought to try to help resolve crimes and bring closure to families who have been despairing for so long. I will try to post more when I have something useful (I hope) to contribute. Thank you all for being here.

 

[sherbetjello]

Reminds me of a thread I read, forget where it occured but people literally stepped over a dead body on the sidewalk and some stopped to take pictures on their cell phone before continuing on. grrrrrrr

Sadly, this happened in the NYC area as well.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world/new-york-pedestrians-ignore-dying-man_100353784.html

 

[1tasha]

My friend tells her children if they are lost to go up to an older woman for help. Not a failsafe, obviously, but certainly lowers the odds. I can't imagine the agony his parents are in. I'm clinging to my no death penalty stance by my fingernails these days.

 

[Cubby]

He'll be looked over with a fine-toothed comb...everywhere he's ever resided and visited:

Included in the “Activities and Interests” on Aron’s Facebook profile is a link to a page for a non-profit organization that offers tips on how to find sex offenders in your neighborhood. The page is headlined, “IS YOUR FAMILY SAFE? Find out who really lives in your area!”

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster

Is it just me or is the comment IS YOUR FAMIlY SAFE incredibly hinky? Most of us see comments along the lines of keeping children safe, yet this sick -words which will certainly get me banned- makes a comment along the lines of is your family safe as if it is some kind of remark to the parents of any children he'd be preying upon.

Sick sick sick, I hope he frys and I hope when he is imprisoned the other inmates give him the full GP welcome.

 

[Cubby]

This guy was a security guard.
Many other killers, serial killers even have been OR posed as security guards.

Andrew Urdiales
Michael Hughes
Ted Bundy lured his victim who got away pretending to be a security guard


Kids can easily mistake a security guard for a police officer.

If your kids get lost... you teach them to first ask a Mom for help.

A Mom with small kids. If at all possible.

Statistically the Melissa Huckaby's are less likely to find your child than the Joseph Duncan's are.
Especially if your child approaches them.

The odds of a mother with a couple of toddlers, abducting and killing a child when that child asks them for help... is pretty astronomical.
I don't think I have ever heard of it happening.

You always go to a Mom first... if there isn't one... then a woman.
And of course, you don't actually go with anyone... you have them call your parents.
If Leiby had refused to go with this suspect, I'm not at all convinced he would have taken him by force...

Ask a Mom with small kids for help if you get lost.

Pretty sad to think we have to think along these lines. As a mother to a son, I hate thinking I would have to choose a gender or teach my son MEN are the bad guys. Not all are, so I would have to include dads with small kids too. There are lots of great SAHD's out there too these days and their numbers are growing. I see a lot of helicoptor dads in my neighborhood.

 

[almino]

Regarding, "a source tells nbc new york that aron gave a lengthy confession, and told investigators he spent "several hours" with the boy before he killed him."

I wonder how LA spend those hours with Leiby. I wonder if LA was ever out of country on voyeurism trips, unseen by others. I wonder what websites, items are on his PC, unseen by others. Interesting how his FB page preached against the very thing he struggled with, the Safe Families link.

 

[Cubby]

the wiki link posted upthread on bereavement in Judaism had this portion that may apply:

<ZAKA (heb. &#1494;&#1511;"&#1488; abbr. for Zihui Korbanot Asson lit. "Identifying Victims of Disaster" – &#1495;&#1505;&#1491; &#1513;&#1500; &#1488;&#1502;&#1514; Hessed shel Emet lit. "True Kindness" – &#1488;&#1497;&#1514;&#1493;&#1512; &#1495;&#1497;&#1500;&#1493;&#1509; &#1493;&#1492;&#1510;&#1500;&#1492, is a community emergency response team in the State of Israel, officially recognized by the government. The organization was founded in 1989. Members of ZAKA, most of whom are Orthodox, assist ambulance crews, identify the victims of terrorism, road accidents and other disasters and, where necessary, gather body parts and spilled blood for proper burial. They also provide first aid and rescue services, and help with the search for missing persons. In the past they have responded in the aftermath of disasters around the world.>

I see that they are in Israel, but it seems there are processes in place for such terrible atrocities. I am sure those that will prepare him for burial will have guidelines to follow.

There was a link in one of the local jewish blogs or neighborhood links that they do have a local community organization which does work closely with the NYPD and ME in times and circumstances such as this. If I find it again, I'll link it.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

So not the outcome we all had hoped. I prayed many times that this little guy would make it home. RIP dear Leiby.

 

[Etilema]

I have many pages to catch up, but your theory is possible. Perhaps he was grooming the boy and convinced him to beg his mom to let him walk for first time.

My gut is telling me LE will be able to piece this one together quickly.

The community is extremely trusting of one another. If someone is one of their own, they assume he's ok. I'm sure it wouldn't take much persuasion at all to get the little guy to come with him.

Tears are streaming down my face.

ETA: Removed this:"It turns out this guy was even a guest at their house the previous Sabbath, so the boy knew him, personally," because it turns out that that is only a rumor, and I cannot substantiate it. It has been reported that the family did NOT know the man.

 

[Cubby]

who takes a little lost boy back to their apartment?

who kills a little boy when he finds out everyone is looking for him?

we all know why... this guy was a predator waiting to happen and decided to act that day... (moo)

eta: oh yeah.. and forgot to add: who goes to work the next day like nothing is wrong?????

I'm stumped wondering how he pulled this off in an upstairs apartment when his parents were in the first floor apartment. how did his parents (and I am not blaming them in any way) miss a kid was upstairs spending time with their adult son. Many of those buildings have hardwoord floors so how did 'company' get missed? :waitasec: I would have thought he would have taken the child to somewhere isolated where they would be alone, NOT to an apartment building his parents where a few feet and a ceiling/floor seperated them. Learn something new everyday.

 

[Cubby]

Those sites are just for those who are missing or unidentified IIRC, what about cases that remain unsolved but where the victim was found? Are there any ways to check those other than perhaps old news reports?

Doenetwork and NamUs for the unidentified. Many state and county sites also exist for unsolved cold cases both of the identified and unidentified.

 

[webrocket]

to reiterate an earllier point. unless you have ever been to Brooklyn, it is impossible to understand th Hasidic/Orthodox communities. they have their own neighborhood patrols in addition to their numerous synagogues, community centers, shops and schools. they are literally in a world of their own. they even have their own EMS services to provide medical services in a religiously/culturally correct manner.

they even go to extraordinary lengths to collect every scrap of body tissue in the event of traumatic deaths as they try to bury a body whole. as I understand it, if a person has an amputation, they bury the body part in a religious service.

as for people not noticing a child on the street, that does not shock me at all. the community is swarming with children and it is nearly impossible for parents to watch over all of the all the time.

 

[The Farm]

Yes another digusting one. There are no words.

 

[Cubby]

I agree with you. And while there is no death penalty in NY, I think that this guy will live the rest of his life in a living hell. From what I understand pedophiles and child murderers are considered the lowest of the lows in prison. Combine that with this guys wimpy appearance (see photo attached). Combine that with his religion (I am not sure, but I doubt it is a plus to be an orthodox jew in prison). Somehow, I have the feeling that Levi will be everyone's girlfriend where he is going. So, while he will not be drawn and quartered and while he might not get the DP, his life will probably be no picnic either. He will probably pay heavily for what he did.

Unfortunately he'll probably really enjoy being everyones girlfriend where he is going. I hope inmates pick up on that and don't give him that pleasure.

jmo

 

[Etilema]

to reiterate an earllier point. unless you have ever been to Brooklyn, it is impossible to understand th Hasidic/Orthodox communities. they have their own neighborhood patrols in addition to their numerous synagogues, community centers, shops and schools. they are literally in a world of their own. they even have their own EMS services to provide medical services in a religiously/culturally correct manner.

they even go to extraordinary lengths to collect every scrap of body tissue in the event of traumatic deaths as they try to bury a body whole. as I understand it, if a person has an amputation, they bury the body part in a religious service.

as for people not noticing a child on the street, that does not shock me at all. the community is swarming with children and it is nearly impossible for parents to watch over all of the all the time.

Absolutely agree that this community is quite different and apart. Some people in Chasidic communities do not even speak English. They take care of their own and tend to be distrustful of outsiders, but unquestioning of those who appear to be insiders. There is often no education about sex abuse, because the whole topic of sex is very taboo.

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

I stayed up all night last night reading about this sweet child...I am just speechless. God Bless his family and friends.