NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #10

[truthspider]

some other food for thought is this medication for an unknown medical condition that would cause adverse results on a polygraph (neurological?). There isn't much to be found on the subject, and I don't think it is even necessarily true, but if there is indeed a serious enough medical condition that does this, and if CPH indeed has it, I wonder if the seriousness (terminal?) of it is contributing to his degeneration from an organized (near annual) SK to an almost Spree like murderer. (3 victims in a 5 month period)

 

[waltzingmatilda]

It is well known that SK's read and collect newspaper articles on their crimes and the investigation. They do this to both revel in their accomplishments and follow the investigation, determine what the authorities know about them, not get caught, etc.

So what if a SK lives at home with his family, has a wife and kids, and doesn't have a private/safe place to keep such materials?

He could revel in his accomplishments and glean info about the investigation by calling the victims families under false pretenses; pretending to be SCPD, pretending to run a rehab, offering help in finding the missing person, etc.

Truthie, you definately have a point! It would be more difficult to hide such things when family members live at the residence. I must say (from personal experience) that it is easier to hide things from a spouse (as opposed to children) who is busy with a career or volunteerism or whatnot. But when kids are present....they are all up in yo biz! My kids always blabbed to ex hubby if they found a new pair of shoes in my closet! LOL!

(Former Col) Russell Williams of the Royal Canadian Air Force comes to mind. He was married to a woman of wealth who was busy with her own interests. They had no children. He burglarized and stole women's underwear from neighborhood homes. He and his wife owned 2 homes. Evidence found squirreled away in one of the homes included videos of his victims being tortured and raped and murdered. Also included were his stash of womens lingerie and underwear that he had stolen (and meticulously organized) during his burglaries along with photos of himself dressed in the unmentionables. And sometimes in the bedroom of the victim, IIRC.

Our fellow sleuth SillyBilly is waaay more familiar with this RW case than I am and can provide more info, if I may so kindly ask for SB's help if needed.:innocent:

I guess what I am trying say in a roundabout way is...

I wonder if this SK has gender issues? This is just MOO with a dash of gut feeling.

wm

 

[internetgirl101]

Truth, just wondering, Why shouldn't we suspect MP or AD? What rules them out, in your opinion? Pak WAS the last person known to be following/chasing SG around OB.

And the pings to Massapequa cell tower? Are you referring to MBB's phone?
So, the only way it would ping to a Massapequa cell tower, is if the phone was in OAK BEACH? Do you know if it would ping to the same tower if the location was, say, The Budget Inn in Massapequa, or somewhere else in another town nearby?


On another note, I thought the FBI was on this case!?
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/@@wanted-group-listing
Anyone else think SG should be on this list??

 

[svpernin]

Truth, just wondering, Why shouldn't we suspect MP or AD? What rules them out, in your opinion? Pak WAS the last person known to be following/chasing SG around OB.

And the pings to Massapequa cell tower? Are you referring to MBB's phone?
So, the only way it would ping to a Massapequa cell tower, is if the phone was in OAK BEACH? Do you know if it would ping to the same tower if the location was, say, The Budget Inn in Massapequa, or somewhere else in another town nearby?


On another note, I thought the FBI was on this case!?
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/@@wanted-group-listing
Anyone else think SG should be on this list??

100% agreed, IG. While I understand Truthie's focus on CPH (based on the doc's web of lies), I don't think we can rule anyone out at this point. As you said, MP was chasing Shannan in his car when she was last seen. JB was the one who called Shannan to Oak Beach (according to him)- the REASON she was there that night, and AD had a tumultuous and violent history with Shannan. Anything is possible. After all, she reportedly said "THEY'RE trying to kill me."

Truthie, I know you've said you have the "holy grail" of evidence against CPH, I'd love to hear it. Your arguments are very compelling thus far, I'm curious as to what else you've got.

Yes, the pings off the Massapequa tower could have come from several towns in that area, not just OB.

And YES, Shannan should, without a doubt, be on that FBI list!!

 

[PickleChris]

Going to shoot some pictures for you guys tomorrow.

 

[JeannieC]

some other food for thought is this medication for an unknown medical condition that would cause adverse results on a polygraph (neurological?). There isn't much to be found on the subject, and I don't think it is even necessarily true, but if there is indeed a serious enough medical condition that does this, and if CPH indeed has it, I wonder if the seriousness (terminal?) of it is contributing to his degeneration from an organized (near annual) SK to an almost Spree like murderer. (3 victims in a 5 month period)

Polygraph
--------------------------------------------------------------------------Certain drugs can cause skrewed results on a polygraph. The examiner will notice this on the pretest screening and determines if the person can take the test.

There are other reasons not to take the test.....

Who should NOT take a polygraph test:

•Anyone who is being forced to take it.
•Any person with a serious heart condition, unless his doctor has given written approval. A pregnant women, unless her doctor has given written approval.
•Any person who is determined to be mentally incompetent. Any person who has a respiratory illness or cold. Any person who has nerve damage or paralysis.
•Any person who has had a stroke or is an epileptic. Any person who is in pain (i.e., toothache, headache or a recent injury).


Hope this helps..

 

[truthspider]

Truth, just wondering, Why shouldn't we suspect MP or AD? What rules them out, in your opinion? Pak WAS the last person known to be following/chasing SG around OB.

And the pings to Massapequa cell tower? Are you referring to MBB's phone?
So, the only way it would ping to a Massapequa cell tower, is if the phone was in OAK BEACH? Do you know if it would ping to the same tower if the location was, say, The Budget Inn in Massapequa, or somewhere else in another town nearby?


On another note, I thought the FBI was on this case!?
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/@@wanted-group-listing
Anyone else think SG should be on this list??

IMO (first time using that acronym...ever) we shouldn't suspect MP because we have no reason to believe he had ever heard of oak beach, let alone been to oak beach, and yes you COULD say why oak beach, could just be massapequa, but ummm, lots of bodies in oak beach, and oak beach cell would ping massapequa tower. MP is from Flushing homey, Flushing might as well be on Mars, when you are talking about oak beach, I bet the number of people from Oak Beach that have ever been to Flushing is the same as the number of people from Flushing who have ever been to Oak Beach...0...until May 1st.

MP may have tried to make some money sneaking someone into the USA (hottest club in town) but that is a far cry from a real felony, let alone a violent one, or murder.

MP called JB in the days after SG went missing, MP tried to file a missing persons report, MP wouldn't have done either of these if he was a killer or involved in a conspiracy. He is a silly simple driver, who plays poker on his cell and dresses up poodles in outfits, he is about as dangerous and bad as my shoelace... the SK makes racial remarks and sounds like an older white man... MP's foot doesn't fit the shoes of our perp...

Moreover, our SK despises sexual girls in their twenties for a reason, it might be that she represents the kind of sexy hot girl that he could never attain and who rejected him when he was their peer, or that she represents sin, and he is making the world better and getting rid of them. Our SK isn't some guy who spends his life working with girls like this, and from MP's history, he works well with women like this, MP is in touch with his feminine side in a good way, thats why girls in the biz like him.

The SK is someone who doesn't and never had relationships with women like this, because if he did, they would be real people to him. They aren't real people to the SK, because he doesn't now know and has never known women like them.

And as for the fbi list of missing people, I hate saying this, but the FBI knows SG isn't a missing person. They do enough of this to know she is a victim of a SK. Once the FBI got involved, the cadaver dogs were sent to CPH house. The SCPD have 0 experience with a perp like this, that's just reality and not a criticism at all of the SCPD. The fbi deals with people like this SK every day of the week, I'm sure they didn't have to scratch their head for long like some of us. They know what an SK looks (not literal looks, behavior) like and behaves like. FBI told SCPD who their man was right away...and now it's a waiting game.

If you are a fan of patterns and stats, I don't think there has been a SK in history who was of one race/nationality and specifically targeted victims of another race/nationality. For some reason it doesnt happen. We are looking for an older white male with a motive/reason for targeting young, small, desperate, white women.

 

[JeannieC]

The SK is someone who doesn't and never had relationships with women like this, because if he did, they would be real people to him. They aren't real people to the SK, because he doesn't now know and has never known women like them.

Has Le identified any of the victims yet? I have looked but been unable to find a of list of the victims. Approximate age, date of death, etc.

I'm just wondering if the victims have similar sizes and appearance or if the SK doesn't care how they look just that they are pretty, sexy, prostitutes, and female. (When I say appearance I'm asking about any who have been identified, if any have)

The reason for my question is that some SK's go after girls who remind them of a past girlfriend or lover who dumped him. Others go after someone who reminds them of their abusive mother. Urdiales didn't seem to have a "type".

Thanks

 

[goathairjones]

IMO (first time using that acronym...ever) we shouldn't suspect MP because we have no reason to believe he had ever heard of oak beach, let alone been to oak beach, and yes you COULD say why oak beach, could just be massapequa, but ummm, lots of bodies in oak beach, and oak beach cell would ping massapequa tower. MP is a from Flushing homey, Flushing might as well be on Mars, when you are talking about oak beach, I bet the number of people from Oak Beach that have ever been to Flushing is the same as the number of people from Flushing who have ever been to Oak Beach...0...until May 1st.

MP may have tried to make some money sneaking someone into the USA (hottest club in town) but that is a far cry from a real felony, let alone a violent one, or murder.

MP called JB in the days after SG went missing, MP tried to file a missing persons report, MP wouldn't have done either of these if he was a killer or involved in a conspiracy. He is a silly simple driver, who plays poker on his cell and dresses up poodles in outfits, he is about as dangerous and bad as my shoelace... the SK makes racial remarks and sounds like an older white man... MP's foot doesn't fit the shoes of our perp...

Moreover, our SK despises sexual girls in their twenties for a reason, it might be that she represents the kind of sexy hot girl that he could never attain and who rejected him when he was their peer, or that she represents sin, and he is making the world better and getting rid of them. Our SK isn't some guy who spends his life working with girls like this, and from MP's history, he works well with women like this, MP is in touch with his feminine side in a good way, thats why girls in the biz like him.

The SK is someone who doesn't and never had relationships with women like this, because if he did, they would be real people to him. They aren't real people to the SK, because he doesn't now know and has never known women like them.

And as for the fbi list of missing people, I hate saying this, but the FBI knows SG isn't a missing person. They do enough of this to know she is a victim of a SK. Once the FBI got involved, the cadaver dogs were sent to CPH house. The SCPD have 0 experience with a perp like this, that's just reality and not a criticism at all of the SCPD. The fbi deals with people like this SK every day of the week, I'm sure they didn't have to scratch their head for long like some of us. They know what an SK looks (not literal looks, behavior) like and behaves like. FBI told SCPD who their man was right away...and now it's a waiting game.

If you are a fan of patterns and stats, I don't think there has been a SK in history who was of one race/nationality and specifically targeted victims of another race/nationality. For some reason it doesnt happen. We are looking for an older white male with a motive/reason for targeting young, small, desperate, white women.

Sorry truthspider but you are dead wrong! Do yourself a favor a go to the Captree boat basin and take a walk down the fishing pier. You're likely to see half of Flushing there on any given Sunday.

I would guess that MP has been on the Ocean Parkway before for pleasure purposes on his was to Captree or Robert Moses or Jones Beach. And you can be sure that if he was a driver for escorts, he's been to Oak Beach and many other places along the Ocean Parkway as well as all over Long Island. Your argument is really weak. Sorry.

 

[Reannan]

IMO (first time using that acronym...ever) we shouldn't suspect MP because we have no reason to believe he had ever heard of oak beach, let alone been to oak beach, and yes you COULD say why oak beach, could just be massapequa, but ummm, lots of bodies in oak beach, and oak beach cell would ping massapequa tower. MP is a from Flushing homey, Flushing might as well be on Mars, when you are talking about oak beach, I bet the number of people from Oak Beach that have ever been to Flushing is the same as the number of people from Flushing who have ever been to Oak Beach...0...until May 1st.

MP may have tried to make some money sneaking someone into the USA (hottest club in town) but that is a far cry from a real felony, let alone a violent one, or murder.

MP called JB in the days after SG went missing, MP tried to file a missing persons report, MP wouldn't have done either of these if he was a killer or involved in a conspiracy. He is a silly simple driver, who plays poker on his cell and dresses up poodles in outfits, he is about as dangerous and bad as my shoelace... the SK makes racial remarks and sounds like an older white man... MP's foot doesn't fit the shoes of our perp...

Moreover, our SK despises sexual girls in their twenties for a reason, it might be that she represents the kind of sexy hot girl that he could never attain and who rejected him when he was their peer, or that she represents sin, and he is making the world better and getting rid of them. Our SK isn't some guy who spends his life working with girls like this, and from MP's history, he works well with women like this, MP is in touch with his feminine side in a good way, thats why girls in the biz like him.

The SK is someone who doesn't and never had relationships with women like this, because if he did, they would be real people to him. They aren't real people to the SK, because he doesn't now know and has never known women like them.

And as for the fbi list of missing people, I hate saying this, but the FBI knows SG isn't a missing person. They do enough of this to know she is a victim of a SK. Once the FBI got involved, the cadaver dogs were sent to CPH house. The SCPD have 0 experience with a perp like this, that's just reality and not a criticism at all of the SCPD. The fbi deals with people like this SK every day of the week, I'm sure they didn't have to scratch their head for long like some of us. They know what an SK looks (not literal looks, behavior) like and behaves like. FBI told SCPD who their man was right away...and now it's a waiting game.

BBM - I am curious Truthspider, where you got the information about the SK making racial statements and sounding like an older white man??? Your comment reminded me of a conversation I found between two "John's" (billyS and EddyBearNY) on Utopiaguide when I first started with this case. I will try to post it here (BBM):

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-31831-p-8.html


billyS 01-26-2009, 03:59 AM (To EddyBearNY)
I'm surprised you didn't or don't just marry a Jewish woman. You seem to have really strong feelings about your Jewishness, as seen in the Israel threads. I've read a lot about Jews being upset about so many of their people marrying outside the faith.
So why then do you continue to pursue Hispanic woman?
Then on top of that you pass remarks like they are beneath you. You called your wife a peasant in another thread.

BTW Eddy, this is only a question, not an attack



EddyBearNY
01-26-2009, 09:13 AM (Eddy’s Response back to billyS


I have strong feelings about people attacking Jews, which is different then dating non-Jews.

I dated many Jewish women and never got along with them, I never thought I would of married a Latin women. that's a long story.

Why do I still persue Latin women? I quess for many reasons, the large numbers of them, many do not mind dating older men. I also understand the culture, they like white Americans, so it is easy, they are hot looking.

I do not think all Latin women are beneath me, it so happens the ones I find are. There are peaants in every race, and even among us Jews.

All women are no f*@!!$* good anyway."

 

[JeannieC]

IMO (first time using that acronym...ever) we shouldn't suspect MP because we have no reason to believe he had ever heard of oak beach, let alone been to oak beach, and yes you COULD say why oak beach, could just be massapequa, but ummm, lots of bodies in oak beach, and oak beach cell would ping massapequa tower. MP is a from Flushing homey, Flushing might as well be on Mars, when you are talking about oak beach, I bet the number of people from Oak Beach that have ever been to Flushing is the same as the number of people from Flushing who have ever been to Oak Beach...0...until May 1st.

MP may have tried to make some money sneaking someone into the USA (hottest club in town) but that is a far cry from a real felony, let alone a violent one, or murder.

MP called JB in the days after SG went missing, MP tried to file a missing persons report, MP wouldn't have done either of these if he was a killer or involved in a conspiracy. He is a silly simple driver, who plays poker on his cell and dresses up poodles in outfits, he is about as dangerous and bad as my shoelace... the SK makes racial remarks and sounds like an older white man... MP's foot doesn't fit the shoes of our perp...

Moreover, our SK despises sexual girls in their twenties for a reason, it might be that she represents the kind of sexy hot girl that he could never attain and who rejected him when he was their peer, or that she represents sin, and he is making the world better and getting rid of them. Our SK isn't some guy who spends his life working with girls like this, and from MP's history, he works well with women like this, MP is in touch with his feminine side in a good way, thats why girls in the biz like him.

The SK is someone who doesn't and never had relationships with women like this, because if he did, they would be real people to him. They aren't real people to the SK, because he doesn't now know and has never known women like them.

And as for the fbi list of missing people, I hate saying this, but the FBI knows SG isn't a missing person. They do enough of this to know she is a victim of a SK. Once the FBI got involved, the cadaver dogs were sent to CPH house. The SCPD have 0 experience with a perp like this, that's just reality and not a criticism at all of the SCPD. The fbi deals with people like this SK every day of the week, I'm sure they didn't have to scratch their head for long like some of us. They know what an SK looks (not literal looks, behavior) like and behaves like. FBI told SCPD who their man was right away...and now it's a waiting game.


If you are a fan of patterns and stats, I don't think there has been a SK in history who was of one race/nationality and specifically targeted victims of another race/nationality. For some reason it doesnt happen. We are looking for an older white male with a motive/reason for targeting young, small, desperate, white women.

VERY GOOD POST! Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[truthspider]

Sorry truthspider but you are dead wrong! Do yourself a favor a go to the Captree boat basin and take a walk down the fishing pier. You're likely to see half of Flushing there on any given Sunday.

I would guess that MP has been on the Ocean Parkway before for pleasure purposes on his was to Captree or Robert Moses or Jones Beach. And you can be sure that if he was a driver for escorts, he's been to Oak Beach and many other places along the Ocean Parkway as well as all over Long Island. Your argument is really weak. Sorry.

hmm maybe you are right, I had a margerita or 2 earlier and might be off my game a lil.
but have they ever been to OAK BEACH ASSOCIATION? im guessing a no. behind the gate lies one world, an odd one, a removed one, a GATED one. Flushing is a very different place.

Unless MP, is the SK and decided to drag all these bodies from somewhere he is comfy with to oak beach to frame a john, lol what a plot, then the SK lives in Oak Beach. And again, it takes a wise person to know when they are not an expert and to rely on an expert's opinion instead (I am good at this)...after the fbi got involved, SCPD brought cadaver dogs through CPH's house. Nothing new was done on the Brewer or MP front. Also, when the FBI broke out their real toys, THEY SCANNED AND PHOTOGRAPHED and DOCUMENTED every inch of Jones Island and Oak Beach! No dogs in NJ, no dogs in Islip, no dogs in Flushing. Forget Massapequa and Flushing! the fbi, unlike us, know exactly what they are doing....

I'm not saying JB, MP, Diaz aren't guilty of commiting some type of crime, we all know they are! But none of them are a Serial Killer... and some of them may even have been involved in a conspiracy to sell a person to God knows who...they didn't care, but I am hunting a SK, not a felon, a girl beater, or a dumb john(no offense JB).

Come on Goat, are you next going to tell me that MP used to hang out in Manorville around 2003? MP is a driver/delivery boy (not a SK), JB is random john with the wrong neighbor, and Diaz is a girl beater. None of these fellas are knowledgable enough with Ocean Parkway to operate their the way the SK did. Jones Island is the SK's territory, in a way we can't even comprehend. It's his backyard.

 

[internetgirl101]

Truth, I agree, actually. I don't think MP is a serial killer. From what we've learned about him, I can't see him killing women, picking OP as a dumping ground, using burlap, taunting the family, etc.
But I do feel like he knows more about what happened to Shannan. I guess I am saying that right now, I do not believe these cases are connected. Nothing convinces me that we are looking for ONLY 1 person.
Someone that does believe the same person is responsible for SG and MMB, MB, WM, and ALC, would rule MP out, so I think I see where you are coming from.


Reannan,

"The caller ID indicated the call came from Melissa's cellphone. The man who sounded like an "older white guy" wanted to know if the person on the line was Melissa's little sister."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...island-serial-killer-victims-secret-life.html


"Seven days after Melissa disappeared, the phone rang at Lynn's home in Buffalo. The caller I.D. displayed the number of Melissa's missing cell. Amanda picked up. The voice was self-assured. "Is this Melissa's little sister?" he asked. "I hear you're a half-breed." Amanda's father is black. Whoever was calling knew what Amanda looked like."

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runni...d_serial_killer_new_york_magazine_cocaine.php

 

[shadowraiths]

You have made so many faulty assertions that it would take a book to address them all. In any event, let's start with this one...

If you are a fan of patterns and stats, I don't think there has been a SK in history who was of one race/nationality and specifically targeted victims of another race/nationality. For some reason it doesnt happen.

...bc I find it ironic that you attempt to prop it up with a comment about "patterns and stats," when even a cursory google search refutes your claim. To wit.

Gary Carlton (aka the stocking strangler), a black man who murdered several white women. Calvin Jackson, another black man who murdered white women. And who could forget Gary Ridgeway (aka the Green River Killer), who murdered both blacks and whites? Then, there's the tandem killers, Charles Ng and Robert Lake, who murdered white women, men, and babies. The latter bc, "they got in the way" of their endeavors to create sex slaves. These are but a few SKs who crossed racial boundaries.

 

[JeannieC]

You have made so many faulty assertions that it would take a book to address them all. In any event, let's start with this one...

...bc I find it ironic that you attempt to prop up it with a comment about "patterns and stats," when even a cursory google search refutes your claim. To wit.

Gary Carlton (aka the stocking strangler), a black man who murdered several white women. Calvin Jackson, another black man who murdered white women. And who could forget Gary Ridgeway (aka the Green River Killer), who murdered both blacks and whites? Then, there's the tandem killers, Charles Ng and Robert Lake, who murdered white women, men, and babies. The latter bc, "they got in the way" of their endeavors to create sex slaves. These are but a few SKs who crossed racial boundaries.

I think he said, "Specifically" targeted victims of another race. However, that isn't true, Elias Abuelazam, a Palestinian Arab targeted Blacks and stabbed them to death. He killed 5 and attacked 20 more in 3 states.

 

[shadowraiths]

I think he said, "Specifically" targeted victims of another race. However, that isn't true, Elias Abuelazam, a Palestinian Arab targeted Blacks and stabbed them to death. He killed 5 and attacked 20 more in 3 states.

Granted. However both Carlton and Jackson, both black, "specifically" targeted white women.

 

[truthspider]

I think he said, "Specifically" targeted victims of another race. However, that isn't true, Elias Abuelazam, a Palestinian Arab targeted Blacks and stabbed them to death. He killed 5 and attacked 20 more in 3 states.

"... I was convinced we were dealing with a white killer. Very rarely did we see this type of crime cross racial lines..." - John Douglas, Mind hunter

"These were both sexually based crimes perpetrated by an insecure and inadequate adult male. Both victims were white, and we had found it unusual to see this kind of crime cross racial lines." - John Douglas, Mind hunter

Again, I know nothing about this profile biz except what I've learned from Douglas's 3 books. I have been given the impression that sexually sadistic serial killers hunt within their own ethnicity. My phrasing was too strong, I probably should have said it would be "more unusual" ... but the margaritas were good and I didn't. :crazy: More over, I believe this SK did kill the Asian male, and Peaches, both outside his ethnicity, but I feel that they were not specifically targeted... Prior to the internet, procuring a prostitute or victim was a completely different game for him.

Clearly I am new to this field of serial killing, you guys are the resident experts and I'm still a newbie.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

It is well known that SK's read and collect newspaper articles on their crimes and the investigation. They do this to both revel in their accomplishments and follow the investigation, determine what the authorities know about them, not get caught, etc.

So what if a SK lives at home with his family, has a wife and kids, and doesn't have a private/safe place to keep such materials?

He could revel in his accomplishments and glean info about the investigation by calling the victims families under false pretenses; pretending to be SCPD, pretending to run a rehab, offering help in finding the missing person, etc.

And by making the Oak Beach dumping grounds his personal trophy case. And I think that's the reason he used burlap. It blends into the environment to the eye who doesn't know it's actually there, but HE could probably pick it out of the scenery, because he knew what to look for.

I've always thought, and continue to think, that our SK is a man who feels powerless and emasculated in his real life. This "other world" he inhabits is a blank page where he can rewrite himself. He kills to feel powerful, to be what he can't be in his real life. But he needs his real life too, the image of an upright citizen, a do-gooder, perhaps even a hero. He straddles two different worlds, and is usually very careful that the two don't meet. I don't for one minute think our guy keeps victims one minute longer than he has to. He uses them for what he needs, then throws them out like trash and walks away quickly, back to real life.
JMO

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hi all! I've been researching serial killers and wish to share this link with everyone. It is a short synopsis of most notorious sk's but you can click on the name for more info.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/index.html

I found the above link while researching Danny Harold Rolling, who beheaded, disfigured and posed his victims, sometimes with mirrors, UGH! Here is a link to his story.

****WARNING: Graphic Details!!!!!****

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/rolling/gain_1.html

The only thing I feel I have learned is that most of the people who interact with sk's on a regular basis never suspect them of their crimes. OK, now I am off to read about Albert Fish.

wm

 

[PickleChris]

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=218395309833520995449.0004aa3b347c00be645f9&msa=0&ll=40.873026,-73.096161&spn=0.748701,1.388397

Here is a quick map I put together so you guys can get a better feel for the area and what I was talking about earlier. Hope this opens some new ideas.