NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #10

[waltzingmatilda]

Thanks goathairjones. The time of this attack is around the same time that SG ran off into the night leaving footsteps in the sand. Is Fire Island walking distance by beach to OB? Also, from what I've heard, FI sounds like an exclusive place. Am I correct in my assumption?

OT Sorry I haven't posted much lately. I've had a heck of a time with connectivity to the www since the hurricane. I am still checking in and reading as much as possible.

wm

 

[truthspider]

Cherry Grove is not within walking distance to oak beach (12 miles away with much of that walk through sand uggg). Cherry Grove is a gay community on Fire Island that is the more liberal/wild/less exclusive of the 2 gay communities on Fire Island, the other being "The Pines".

boat ride or water taxi ride away, or truck if you have beach buggy permit (very few do).

I don't see a reason to relate this assault to this thread.

 

[PickleChris]

Cherry Grove is not within walking distance to oak beach (12 miles away with much of that walk through sand uggg). Cherry Grove is a gay community on Fire Island that is the more liberal/wild/less exclusive of the 2 gay communities on Fire Island, the other being "The Pines".

boat ride or water taxi ride away, or truck if you have beach buggy permit (very few do).

I don't see a reason to relate this assault to this thread.

I take the walk from Robert Moses field 5 to Ocean Beach FI quite often. It is a harsh 6 mile walk through the sand. You have to prove year round residence for a 4x4 permit there. Also there is a key coded gate to get on the entrance road. Just curious, is there anymore information on this girl? News 12 is pretty vague with this story.

 

[rodent69]

I also want to see how far down the road I can see in either direction. Then factor in night time, (car headlights). Then hope to gather how much time he had to discard the bodies.

Would be nice to have some reasonable estimates. Due to the long, flat, and straight nature of the road the act of dumping the body there looks risky. My working theory has always been: either the vehicle belongs on the side of the road at night or he is sure there is no LE in the area to catch him.

It was for the most part in the summer, very busy months, but overnight you can see headlights
from a good distance behind you. We summise that if someone was following you or you saw
headlights, you wouldn't pull over, you would wait until there were no headlights behind you, utilize
one of the turnarounds, pull off the shoulder of the road, on to the grassy area, open the trunk or
the back of the vehicle, whatever it happened to be, and then toss the victims into the bramble as
far as a person could toss.

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS050511.pdf

I am thinking that getting the body of MW at 145 lbs into the brambles would take some serious strength to do quickly. So either a lot of time there or he can get some distance throwing 145 lbs.

 

[truthspider]

Would be nice to have some reasonable estimates. Due to the long, flat, and straight nature of the road the act of dumping the body there looks risky. My working theory has always been: either the vehicle belongs on the side of the road at night or he is sure there is no LE in the area to catch him.


http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/clerk/cmeet/ps/2011/PS050511.pdf

I am thinking that getting the body of MW at 145 lbs into the brambles would take some serious strength to do quickly. So either a lot of time there or he can get some distance throwing 145 lbs.

You are assuming the remains were 145 lbs when they were discarded off ocean parkway. From existing footage and visiting some of the sites on the side of ocean parkway I can tell you that the locations I saw were not very far into the brush, about 4 to 5 feet, which surprised me.

I believe some of the G4 remains were moved to ocean parkway sometime after May 1, 2010 (obviously after June 6th for MW) and were most likely skeletal in nature by that point and didn't weigh much at all.

I would like to know more about the timeline/investigation if any during the summer and September of 2010 to try and determine when the decision to move some of the remains was made, if indeed some of them were moved as a result of the SG investigation.

From what I gather, a nude body wrapped in burlap could proceed through most of the decomposition process in about 2 weeks given the weather during the summer months on the barrier beach.

LE can easily tell which remains decomposed where they were found and which were moved to OP after decomposition.

 

[truthspider]

they aren't crop circles, they aren't natural.

Some animal or person made 2 circular clearings about 12 feet wide in the tall reeds out back behind and to the east of CPH's house. (I estimate the reed grass in this area is 8-10 ft tall)

Maybe these pics came after the investigation and this was an area searched for evidence?

Maybe deer trample down the grass in a circle like dogs to create a den?

Maybe the engineers who restore the mosquito canals needed a place to setup equipment?

Maybe someone clears an area every year to grow marijuana?

I don't know but I am really curious about these 2 circles, I have scanned and examined the grassy areas all around the island and have yet to see other circular clearings like these.....

 

[rodent69]

You are assuming

Well of course I am. It's not like they are releasing any real information anymore. It's an Occam's razor thing; I haven't seen anything to indicate that they were moved there post decay, so I'm going to run with the simplest sequence of events.

I take it that is why you are interested in the anomalous circles in the landscape as evidence that something happened there and was moved to the roadside.

(Sigh ... probably a <bad idea> to continue at this point. I'm not trying to denigrate or stop anyone from pursuing their own ideas.)

Lugging 145 lbs anywhere is a strenuous task. I just don't see how CPH managed the logistics without a complicated event model, add an assistant, or even posit that a dominance sadist is constantly feigning disability. If I start with CPH and a simple model of what would be the best way for him, they'd be finding bodies that were drugged and killed in a vehicle, the method of disposal would be "pushed out the car door" and he would have taken a pass on MW.

We're taking different approaches to the problem. I'm trying to build as simple a model as possible and then see if it points at anyone vs. taking a subject and trying to build a model around them. I can't say anything about the superiority to either approach, I am sure many a crime was solved by finding the person and then everything clicked into place. To be completely honest, I do have "my suspect", but that is more of a distraction to being objective than anything else.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hi truthspider! This is just speculation wrt the circles that you are seeing. I cannot clearly identify the terrain around the circles as I am not familiar with LI. However, there is an uninhabited barrier island in NC that we visit and we have seen what we call 'sand circles'. It is a phenomenon where the blowing winds create a large circle in the sand around the sporadically growing sea oats.

I also noticed the growth in the ariel view looks salt burned (a rust color), is that natural for growth on LI. I am asking because we boated to Shackelford Banks to see the wild horses and cows labor day weekend and the growth there has the same rust color, which is not natural in these parts.

Do you know if the ariel view was taken after the hurricane? I just wonder if the circles were made from Irene's winds like we see in the sand after nor 'easters here in NC. I wish I knew how to post screen shots as I have some photos of the sand circles. (sand view not street view, lol!) Just an observation.

wm

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Well of course I am. It's not like they are releasing any real information anymore. It's an Occam's razor thing; I haven't seen anything to indicate that they were moved there post decay, so I'm going to run with the simplest sequence of events.

I take it that is why you are interested in the anomalous circles in the landscape as evidence that something happened there and was moved to the roadside.

(Sigh ... probably a <bad idea> to continue at this point. I'm not trying to denigrate or stop anyone from pursuing their own ideas.)

Lugging 145 lbs anywhere is a strenuous task. I just don't see how CPH managed the logistics without a complicated event model, add an assistant, or even posit that a dominance sadist is constantly feigning disability. If I start with CPH and a simple model of what would be the best way for him, they'd be finding bodies that were drugged and killed in a vehicle, the method of disposal would be "pushed out the car door" and he would have taken a pass on MW.

We're taking different approaches to the problem. I'm trying to build as simple a model as possible and then see if it points at anyone vs. taking a subject and trying to build a model around them. I can't say anything about the superiority to either approach, I am sure many a crime was solved by finding the person and then everything clicked into place. To be completely honest, I do have "my suspect", but that is more of a distraction to being objective than anything else.

Same here. Once you get it into your mind that you think you know who did it, it's very easy to try to shape the facts into something that fits your suspect. If you are really vigilant in controlling your thought process, you can override that, to a degree. But it's hard.

 

[nugzter]

Lugging 145 lbs anywhere is a strenuous task. I just don't see how CPH managed the logistics without a complicated event model, add an assistant, or even posit that a dominance sadist is constantly feigning disability. If I start with CPH and a simple model of what would be the best way for him, they'd be finding bodies that were drugged and killed in a vehicle, the method of disposal would be "pushed out the car door" and he would have taken a pass on MW.

We're taking different approaches to the problem. I'm trying to build as simple a model as possible and then see if it points at anyone vs. taking a subject and trying to build a model around them. I can't say anything about the superiority to either approach; I am sure many a crime was solved by finding the person and then everything clicked into place. To be completely honest, I do have "my suspect", but that is more of a distraction to being objective than anything else.

I once took part in a training exercise where they had a 150lb dead weight dummy that had to be carried. One thing that sticks out about this training is carrying the dummy. I made it about 40 yards befor I was beat. So I decided to drag it the rest of the way. It had no straps or clothing, so I could get almost no grip, and it was harder to drag that dang thing than it was to carry it. We had to dead lift this dummy from the ground on to our shoulders. That was NOT easy. (I was 20 at the time and at top fitness)
Based on this experience, some questions are raised. (Assuming the bodies have not decomposed elsewhere)
1. Ok, he had a vehicle. Where in the vehicle did he transport the bodies?
In the back seat it would be hard to get the body out, plus that&#8217;s just not too smart. Trunk of a car ,van or truck bed with cab make sense.
2. From the pictures and videos I have seen , it looks like the bodies were taken into the brush about 30-50 feet.
To drag a body thru the thick brush, wrapped in burlap, would be very hard. So either 2 people carried, or one person shoulder carried the bodies.

Link: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zw_1t0qPXM"]CPAT Event 7 - Rescue (165 lb. Dummy Drag) - YouTube[/ame]
*** Notice- the dummy has straps, Concrete floor***
It takes her about 15 seconds to make it to the barrel (about 50 ft?)

Oh, one question, are there any voice chat rooms related to the case? It would be interesting to debate certain issues and brainstorm via voice....
Gonna get back to work on my timeline....

 

[goathairjones]

I once took part in a training exercise where they had a 150lb dead weight dummy that had to be carried. One thing that sticks out about this training is carrying the dummy. I made it about 40 yards befor I was beat. So I decided to drag it the rest of the way. It had no straps or clothing, so I could get almost no grip, and it was harder to drag that dang thing than it was to carry it. We had to dead lift this dummy from the ground on to our shoulders. That was NOT easy. (I was 20 at the time and at top fitness)
Based on this experience, some questions are raised. (Assuming the bodies have not decomposed elsewhere)
1. Ok, he had a vehicle. Where in the vehicle did he transport the bodies?
In the back seat it would be hard to get the body out, plus that’s just not too smart. Trunk of a car ,van or truck bed with cab make sense.
2. From the pictures and videos I have seen , it looks like the bodies were taken into the brush about 30-50 feet.
To drag a body thru the thick brush, wrapped in burlap, would be very hard. So either 2 people carried, or one person shoulder carried the bodies.

Link: CPAT Event 7 - Rescue (165 lb. Dummy Drag) - YouTube
*** Notice- the dummy has straps, Concrete floor***
It takes her about 15 seconds to make it to the barrel (about 50 ft?)

Oh, one question, are there any voice chat rooms related to the case? It would be interesting to debate certain issues and brainstorm via voice....
Gonna get back to work on my timeline....

Nugtzer,

The GB4 bodies were on 10-15 feet into the brush. And all of them weighed just above 100 lbs except for MW.

 

[internetgirl101]

Cold case?

"Students will don the hats of true crime investigators and work towards solving cases where the trail has gone cold."

"The first two cases of the investigative society have yet to be determined, but will likely include the so-called Craigslist Ripper in New York and The Highway of Tears Murders in British Columbia."

http://communications.uwo.ca/wester...heats_up_cold_cases_with_student_society.html


Craigslist

"Each of them — Megan Waterman, 22; Melissa Barthelemy, 24; Maureen Brainard-Barnes, 25; and Amber Lynn Costello, 27 — left behind a digital data trail that detectives can mine for photographs, phone numbers and more."

"Craigslist stores classified postings and the Internet Protocol addresses of the computer used to post them. The site might also have e-mail addresses for clients who replied to an advertisement.

From there, detectives with a court order, subpoena or a declaration of an emergency could contact the Internet service providers of the women, and of their clients, to look through e-mails for correspondence.

A cellphone number from an e-mail or a Web log archived by Craigslist could lead down another path: Investigators could contact the cellphone company to obtain call records, stored text messages and geographic location data revealing approximately where people have been, and when.

The Internet Protocol address — unique numbers identifying a computer’s network connection on the Web — can lead to a computer’s location, once a cable or phone company divulges where the subscriber was hooked up.

All the data and electronic leads are being carefully analyzed and evaluated, Dominick Varrone, the chief of detectives at the Suffolk County Police Department, said in an interview."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/n...-online.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&ref=craigslist


Sorry if these links were posted already.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hi Indigo!
Welcome to WS! I am so glad you joined and thank you for the info. Am going to check it out at the LISK site!

wm

 

[*Indigo*]

Hi Waltzing Matilda!

Thankyou so much for your welcome!

Hope these posts are helpful

 

[*Indigo*]

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/...gedPRAYINGFORSHANNANMARIEGILBERTApr182011.jpg

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Indigo, You are welcome. There's always room around here for new ideas and theories.

Yep, there are too many coincidences with this guy to be ignored. I personally have kept an open mind about the AC/LI cases being connected. And posssibly the Florida murders too. HA has connections to all three states.

There are some dates which are coincidental too according to this site....

http://archive.no-ip.org/x/thread/7838411

Interesting stuff.

wm

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Interesting that on HA's myspace, on June 7, 2010, he remarks that he is in bed recuperating from a brown recluse spider bite. Meagan Waterman went missing on June 6, 2010.

Brown recluse spiders are not established in New England. They are primarily southern/midwestern spiders.

 

[Seaslug44]

Okay this is freaky. HA's middle name is Evan.

His username on several websites is HEvan13

AS IN 13 VICTIMS IN HEAVEN???

 

[Seaslug44]

Okay this is freaky. HA's middle name is Evan.

His username on several websites is HEvan13

AS IN 13 VICTIMS IN HEAVEN???

Forgot to add...

If we only count victims who were known prostitiutes;

4 Victims in New Jersey.
+
2 Victims whos remains were found in both Manorville & near Gilgo.
+
4 Found in Burlap near Gilgo.

=10 known vicitims.

Who would the other 3 be?

Shannon?

Some of the unidentified remains found along Ocean Parkway?

The unidentified man's remains that were found in Manorville?

Unsolved murders in Florida?

 

[Theforeigner]

CONCERNING MY RESEARCH OF HA, ATLANTIC CITY MURDERVICTIM KIM RAFFO'S X-HUSBAND.


My reason for not share any of this research information has been that that I fear it could harm the investigation, but also because I don´t want this info to be spread on the net due to that HA in fact could be totaly innocent.

At the time when I started out this HA research, April 8, 2011, and posted it on Zodiackiller.com the forum was a closed forum only for paying members.
However at some point the admin of the forum decided to make the forum open to everyone and it is therefore no longer protected.

I therefore seriously request that those who find and read my research on Zodiackiller.com refrain from posting my research or refere to it on any other forums on the net. And IF you don´t want to follow my request, please at least only refere to him as HA.
Some people have already copied a huge part of my reseach and posted it on this forum : http://archive.no-ip.org/x/thread/7838411 as well as WebS.com new member "Indigo" have copy/posed a few of my posts here on this thread, over from Zodiackiller.com


I have from get go continually shared ALL my research with the Suffolk County Police Dep, Nassau County PD, the Atlantic City Police and also a cupple of Florida PD's

Theforeigner